hi,if man sinned against God because he had freewill,why wouldn't he in heaven? after all satan was able to.. if were not able,we can presume we have no freewill in heaven..not ok to be a robot here,but ok in heaven??? but here hell to pay for it?andy
the thing is, no one in heaven will be able to sin. we won't have the ability to corrupt our bodies like on earth. instead, they will be glorified, with Christ's blood on it. the few people that get into Heaven would never want to leave. not because their robotic, but because they know God.
I hold the belief you will be able to sin in the kingdom of God, but you will choose not to. And of course, we will not have our sinful flesh, but have new bodies.The purpose of this life is to be delivered from sin. This life is a training ground, we are preparing to serve in the kingdom.
hi i guess thats my point in heaven it will be a case of you just love God, why not straight forward to that!!! why so much pain down here and so many going to hell! hes God he could of done it that way..but NO down here its "love me or i will punch u in the faces"is that love? love me or its hell..hmmm do u say that to someone you love,love me or judgement! i dont,does that make me more compassionate then God?andy
God is God and can do whatever He likes, if we don't like it, tough. who can know the mind of God? who has given Him counsel? a lot of our questions are job-type to which God will say "where were you when i measured the foundations of the earth?" If i were the one to have made everything from nothing, you'd be playing by my rules too. it seems to me we have lost all knowledge of the Lord's soverignty in all things, we see God as we want to see Him and have created many idols and worshipped the rather than the true God. i've found that God as He in fact is is vastly different from the idol i once fashioned for myself and worshipped for so long.
Hi Brother Andy, I've changed my mind and decided to stay up a bit longer. Ha.Couldn't help it. That story about the pastor being shot kept me awake. I heard it on the radio then saw it posted here.Andy, we're back to that faith thing again. Boy, that's a tough one. I mean the faith part is. But that's all we've got ... without it ... we'll find out the answer to your question, that's been asked by me too, just two years ago, but after we've wasted our lives asking it.OH GASP, Annie questions GOD. YUP !Took a while to get the answer though. I even emailed a Discernment ministry friend of mine but I didn't like his answer. :-( Even though we agree on SO much.I had two choices at that point ... keep asking and never get an answer on earth and risk getting more and more bitter or just by FAITH, believe that GOD IS LOVE and leave it at that and reap the JOYS OF LOVE.I fought this for a while and decided ... I LIKE LOVE. :-D When we "get there", He'll answer us as fast as our mortal bodies can put off this flesh.There is no other answer.GOD IS LOVE and that settles it.He created us to prove that LOVE WINS OUT IN THE END and Satan is fighting till he'll be thrown in the pit, trying to prove to God that people won't love God of their own freewill.Satan wants us to be robots ... God needs to show that He created this universe and all that's in it just for "us" because He wanted "us" to love. He wanted us for HIM to love, but not forced to love. Just like a man and a woman in love want to make babies TO LOVE THEM. And just as a husband wouldn't want his wife's forced love, (no such thing), but a husband wants a wife to love him for herself and for himself alone. Same thing .... God wanted to have us to love and only LOVE - HIS love, will get us into the Kingdom. I posted all the Love verses once here. There's so many. Just type Love into your e-sword or whatever.God can't LIE, so if HE would command us to love so many times, HE couldn't possibly NOT love.He IS love. :-) Every single thing He does, even in His anger is out of LOVE. We don't understand His love, because He "is" love and His love is 100% Love + 100% Holy.We could never grasp such a mind nor that kind of love ... just glimpses of it ... because it could kill you if you felt anywhere near His amount. Yep, it would kill you.It's so cool when ya let your head go there.Now if you have two children and one loves you and enjoys the love you give them, but the other child only stays mad at you for bringing them into existance and doesn't love you or his brother because of it ... can he benefit from your love, as his father ?He's done all He can to prove He loves us, so it's up to humankind to either believe it or not and want to be with HIM or not. WE choose and the benefits of loving the way He does are just too awesome.When you see that Love and Love alone keeps everything moving and wonderful things happening, etc. etc. and the Only Purpose of God being Love ... things start shaping up ... but the next step, is you have to love all of us and everyone out there. That's when it starts to pay off inside. What JOY there is to love. Corrie Ten Boom had to love the guys that was instrumental in killing her sister and parents.Yeah, sometimes love hurts ... but it hurts God more.Doesn't mean you'll be a perfect little saint and always say everything perfect ... but you'll know you love and it'll feel good when you rest your head on your pillow at night. You'll just smile with Jesus.Some folks don't like Jesus or God narrowed down to "just love" ... but that's the scoop.His commandments are out of Love for us. Just like you'd tell your child to not cross the street without you.Either we start to loving or we'll miss out, by our own "self" provoked ponderings. haI figured, why waste my precious few minutes on earth not loving and going into questioning the Author of Love - as the author of hate did ... Satan. I don't want to be in his playing field ... that slimey hate filled creature.I'd rather take that leap of Faith and just Love, cuz everything makes clearer sense then and I realize the Devil's I.Q. is higher than all of ours put together ... and only he questioned God and made Eve question God ... "Did God say .... ? Etc." because all Satan is capable of is HATE and lies.All sin is a form of hate. I don't want any part of hate. Anger is bad enough, but hatred is Satan's territory. And so is questioning a God Who states He IS Love and died to prove it (amongst a lot of other ways ... like making flowers and animals and beautiful mountains and skies etc. etc. for us.)I ain't asking that no mo. :-D Cuz, Jesus Loves me this I Know, Cuz the Bible tells me so and Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world ....Hope this helps friend. Love with a period after it is an appeal.Love. :-)sis Annie
prayerbone wrote:hi i guess thats my point in heaven it will be a case of you just love God, why not straight forward to that!!! why so much pain down here and so many going to hell! hes God he could of done it that way..but NO down here its "love me or i will punch u in the faces"is that love? love me or its hell..hmmm do u say that to someone you love,love me or judgement! i dont,does that make me more compassionate then God?andyBrother Andy,It sounds like you believe that God wants to get revenge on anyone who does not love Him, that He made the lake of fire for rebellious men. If you believe that I can understand why you struggle with God's love.God made the lake of fire for the devil and his angels not men. God wants all men to be saved and none perish. He paid a dear price to make a way for us to be with Him and not go there. But He wants a family who will be with Him because they want to and not because they have to.Free will simply means God gives man a choice: door #1 or door # 2. Behind door number 1 we enjoy intimacy with a Heavenly Father who created us and gave His best to bring us home. Behind door number 2 we have all who want it their way. The consequence for the 'famiy' behind #2 is the same as the father of that family, the father of lies. God does not want any man to go to the lake of fire but He will let us have what we choose. He does not punch man in the face but simply lets him have what he wants.John 3:17-1917 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.19 And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.ASVThe Bible does not clearly state (that I am aware of) whether we will have free will in the world to come. The problem with our choices now is that the father of lies, and his cohorts, are continuously speaking lies and at the same time we are being "renewed" in our minds from all that garbage that we believed when we lived in that liar's house. When we are glorified we will know as we are known and will not have that lying voice in our minds any longer, so our choice to obey the voice of God will be made much easier. We will then be like the angels performing His will.I do agree with Annie. We need to trust His love. We don't need to understand all the reasons for why He does what He does but we do need to trust His character, which is love.Rest in Him,Jeff
hi u stated "It sounds like you believe that God wants to get revenge on anyone who does not love Him, that He made the lake of fire for rebellious men. If you believe that I can understand why you struggle with God's love.God made the lake of fire for the devil and his angels not men"as true as that might be,he still created hell with the for knowledge that people would sin and go there..as ive mentioned in priveous threads if God sees it u can hardly not do it! i.e if b4 time God saw u steal a book tomorrow u will! u dont really have a choice how can u go against what God as seen!so God in is wisdom created a hell knowing we will go there because of flawed "free will" and made a heaven without "freewill" for the onces he as "seen" not sin, odd..and yes i am saying that to the potter! the potters ok,the clays ok but the wheels messed up!andy
Hia Andy,Just a word about God's "Foreknowledge" if you wouldn't mind.You could send a PM and tell me you do mind, but I'm already typing :-D ... I know, I don't make sense to myself neither sometimes. (o: }Anyhow ... God's foreknowledge is only based upon what HE knows we "will" do. So it does not affect our actions. It's like the prophets of old, seeing into the future for the people of Israel ... what the Prophet "knew" a head of time, of what the people would do ... did not "cause" the people to do it ... it was just "seeing into the future".Freewill is not "flawed", it's a beautiful thing actually ... as I tried to explain up top there.We DO have a choice, and God knows what choice we'll make, but His "knowing" does not "cause" the choice.Heaven is freewill also ... other wise 1/3 of His angels wouldn't have fell.I believe like the brother above Chuck said, that Freewill will always be a God thing for angels and men. That's what makes God so beautiful.The parts we don't understand about God's decision to make an eternal hell, is one that we have to decide to either trust that HE is GOOD, or not.Same as I posted above about His purpose being Love ... we have to decide and pretty soon friend ... only because time is running out for us to win souls and/or have the faith to stand when they put a gun to our family's heads and tell us to renounce Him.We love you Andy. I think you know that.Always.Annie
hi annie!!! u can always reply haha i like ur replies ur my buddy..i think this is a case of u know or u dont..i just dont hopefully it will click into place for me one day..intill then it really is pointless me debating it,its beyond the realm's of debate its a mystery i guess..hurry up God and open my eyes lolandy
Ha Andy, you're a trip. You talk like some kinda bebop musician. Haaaa.I sure do love you brother. Amen ... and not to worry ... I betcha you spent most of today listening to sermons ... didn't want you to pull this thing off on anyone, that you're not a believer or something ... not that you were trying to do that ...but, don't want to mess with heads that way ... I know better, nah nah :-P .Funny about things, but Crsschk and I were just looking at the Emergent Church movement a few weeks ago on some thread. Can't imagine why I'd bring that up :-? . Maybe I was thinking about, "discernment" only comes to those who are SAVED. :-D TTYL
u kill me haha yeah thelonious monk of the church..i am saved but i am not where i should be and it frustrating i want to knowwwwwwww lol..and on a serious note not knowing makes me very susceptible to the things this church is encouraging i.e feelings..ive been very blessed in some ways ive kept away from most apostasy in the church haha maybe 'cause i dont go rofl andy
Ha, seriously. You're last 5 words cracked me up. Amen.Hey, listen Andy, I'm afraid you're going to be machine gunned here.Can I suggest you read Mike's Crsschks post on this thread. And look for Logic's posts on ... Awwwww, man, I forgot which thread it was now, but he did a great one on Soteriology. (the salvation doctrine) he's got that doctrine nailed too.Here's Mike's post....https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10025&forum=36Edited: Ha, they're both on that link. Oh boy, so much for my memory.
God bless anyone with a memory. 8-) Lord bless those who know where to go for help.There are many good brothers on here Andy.Just look out for legalists out there. They're faith destroyers.And don't trust "feelings" ... like on that other post .... Faith .... Hebrews 11. Resting on the promises.Love to you.Annie again
if man sinned against God because he had freewill,why wouldn't he in heaven? after all satan was able to..I think we miss God's goal and the purpose of God's complete salvation in Christ.First, God has not redeemed us to "go to heaven". Man was not created for heaven but for the earth, and the Bible does not end with heaven but with the New Jerusalem in the New Earth (Rev 21-22).Rev 21:2 "And I saw the holy city, Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a Bride adorned for Her husband."God's intent is to have redeemed, regenerated, sanctified, transformed, conformed, and transfigured man as His corporate dwelling place on the new earth as the Eternal Bride of Christ, the House of God, the One New Man, and the City of God.THe New Jeruslem is not a literal City made of physical materials but is a sign (Rev. 1:1) showing us the eternal Divine/human incorporation. God dwelling in man and man dwelling in God as a universal couple. she is as John tells us, the Bride of Christ, the wife of the Lamb (21:9), having the glory of God (21:11), of pure gold (the Divine Nature), etc.By the time all of God's redeemed reach the New Heavens and New Earth, we will all have been fully transformed, matured, sanctified, and conformed to the image of the First born son of God, fully constituted with His Life, living in resurrection, and living by Christ as our indwelling Life, holiness, rightousness, wisdom, and every other Divine Attribute which can be lived out in human virtues.And this One who is our Life has conquered sin, death, hell, Satan, and everything which is contrary to God by terminating it on the Cross. There will be nothing of the Old creation, nothing of sin, nothing of fallen humanity in the New Creation. Only what is in resurrection permeated with the Divine Life will be in the New Jerusalem.Romans 8:29 Because those whom He forknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the First Born among many brothers"2 Cor 3:18 "For we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the Glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the Same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit."In that day we, as the body of Christ will be fully conformed to the Head, fully constituted with His Life as the many sons of God expressing Him, having His glory and manifesting God from within us ("out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of Living water)"1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we shall be. We know that if He is manifested, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him even as He is"The issue of the Divine Life we recieve in the New Birth is to conform us to the image of Christ, to grow up in us as the Divine Seed, to produce the many sons of God, to make us all the same as He is in life and nature but not in the Godhead.Graftedbranch
This discussion is locked.
