Balance, Not Tangents -- CALLING ALL FORUM MEMBERS

Great teaching from George Verwer (Founder of OM) on the subject of balance and extremism in the Christian life. This will help keep us on the straight and narrow road, and to not go off on tangents(dead end streets).I request that all members of this forum go and listen. George's wisdom could save us all a lot of trouble.Balance, Not Tangents - MP3

Many people on this forum are going down some of the dead end streets that George speaks about in this message. Yet this thread has so quickly fallen to the bottom. Please, give it a listen--Adam

Very timely message.. Well worth the listen.This man speaks from decades of experience.Greg

I was thrilled to hear George Verwer again. I have always appreciated hearing his insight. Here are a few point I drew from this message: Some Tangents which can pull us towards extremism: Ego tripsEmotionalism Signs/wonders/miraclesLocal church (to exclusion of valuing Parachurch ministries)LegalismLiberty cultProsperityPerfectionism We need to balance between: Principles of the word of God and policies of the organizationZeal and wisdomWork and recreation Fellowship and worshipChurch life and family lifeFaith and common senseAnointing and trainingSpiritual warfare and restSubmission and freedomLove and truth“We must develop a bit of reverent skepticism in order to keep from being drawn into extremism. “Adam, I suspect that after you’ve been hanging out here for a while, you might find yourself developing more balanced perception of SI. Because of the large variety of folk who engage in dialogue, this is one of the best places I know where one can develop balance. You can be sure, if you are leaning a little to far to the left, it isn’t long before someone will be giving you a tug towards the right. Diane

:-D

Balance, Not Tangents Annie, are you O.K.?

Lucky for you, I transcripted this message last week!Here you go! http://everydaymadenew.blogspot.com/2006/03/spiritual-balance-not-tangents-by.html

Thanks, Allan for the transcription. I prefer the written form, and especially like it when the main thoughts are highlighted.That ways they stick better in my mind. (Now, there's another challenge for you!) It is our human tendency to pull a swinging pendulum too far over, in our attempt to stop the momentum. It's a blessing to recall that a lot of these points have been touched on in various discussions - even since I started here last year. Diane

We must not use anything we hear though to judge others burdens ... because others will come back at us and say we're obsessesed with Revival or what Classic Authors say or men in general about what The Word says ... ya know ... here we go again ... saying 'my burden' is more SPECIAL than yours.Annie, though G Verwer did not cover this point, he did say that those who are zealous for God are more inclinded to drift into extremism. True, an imbalanced burden for revival can lead us into tangents, as was discussed in the Revival Idolatry thread. Yet, we can misjudge the apparent "extremism" of others, as you say by comparing them to OUR position. What looks balanced may be extremism (the logical Pharisees), but what looks unbalanced may actually be well-ballanced. (someone who weeps a lot) 1 There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: 2a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, 3 a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, 4 a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, 5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain, 6 a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, 7 a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, 8 a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. from Ecclesiastes 3 Diane

We must not use anything we hear though to judge others burdens ... because others will come back at us and say we're obsessesed with Revival or what Classic Authors say or men in general about what The Word says ... ya know ... here we go again ... saying 'my burden' is more SPECIAL than yours.Amen sister.......Blessings in Him, Cindy

Annie, though G Verwer did not cover this point, he did say that those who are zealous for God are more inclinded to drift into extremism. Good point... Maybe the question becomes, "Whose" 'balance'?It comes up frequently enough in the thought train, but never more so pronounced than perhaps when going in and through and back out again of certain seasons; The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Joh 3:8

Good point... Maybe the question becomes, "Whose" 'balance'?Amen, one man's "balance" is another man's "extreem". And those who press on to know the Lord will always be viewed by some as "unbalanced" if they don't follow or go along with the "status quo".But there is a proper balance in the Christian life as seen in the Lord Himself and reproduced in the apostles and ministered through them to all the churches.If we would be "balanced" we need to be much in the Word of God, much in praying through the Word of God, that we may: "grow up in all things into Christ who is the Head, out from whom the whole body, being joined together and being knit together through every joint of the rich supply and through the operation of the measure of each one part, causes the growth of the Body unto the building up of itself in love."Our indwelling Lord is the Balanced One. And to the degree we are one with the Head, to that degree we exibit that proper balance as clearly seen in the scriptures.Graftedbranch

wow, if you guys agree with george verwer's balanced teaching then no need to listen to wesley, ravenhill and finney's preaching because they preach on Christ perfection (sinless life) wich i believe too. i believe in romans 6, 7, 8. i believe we can have a pure heart and mind. Jesus told the pharisee's that they clean the outside cup, but forsake cleaning the inside where greed and lust are hidden. this is called legalism. focusing on the outer appearance and forsaking the cleansing of the heart. it doesn't matter how clean you look on the outside, that you stop watching t.v. and that your full of good works, God sees the heart. a person full of good works could still have a heart that is full of lust, envy, and jelousy making his work a stench to God.Luke 11:39 (New King James Version)New King James Version (NKJV)39 Then the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean, but your inward part is full of greed and wickedness. Jesus came to save us FROM sin not in sin.Matthew 1:21 (New King James Version)New King James Version (NKJV)21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people FROM their sins.”this article by andrew strom is a good example of sinless life."SINLESS" - an INCIDENT that I EXPERIENCED-by Rita.Your recent topic of 'sinless' reminded me of something that theHoly Spirit showed me.I was fasting for three days and half way through the fast I was inthe Christian School photocopying. One of the teachers came intothe office and gave me a piece of birthday cake and a cup of coffee,explaining that it was one of the pupil's birthday and they haddecided to cut the cake mid-morning and celebrate. Without athought I ate the cake and upon swallowing the last mouthful I wasovercome. I suddenly realised I was fasting! Not only was I fasting,I was exactly half way through a three day fast. I said to the Lord,"No! I am so sorry. I am half way through the fast you told me todo. What shall I do? -Start from here for another three days, orshall I stop and start again tommorrow?" I was so upset. And theLord answered and said to me, "I did not see it." I said, "What doyou mean?" At first I thought he was being kind. But He said, "Idid not see. Your intention had not been to do this and your heartis innocent before me." I was amazed by this.It took a few days to realise that the Lord truly meant I was withoutsin. It was not that I had sinned and repented - it was that I wasfollowing God and communing with him - an error did not count. Iwas set free and the lesson I learnt was about being sinless andthe freedom and joy that brought me. I realised that my body hadsinned almost by automation, but I had not sinned. I had notdeliberately rebelled against God and my intention was not todestroy. I know that lesson was the purpose of the fast.ANDREW STROM AGAIN: This is one of the most vital secretsto walking "sinless" before the Lord. -It is pure "Romans 7". Ritasays (above), "I realised that my body had sinned almost byautomation, but I had not sinned. I had not deliberately rebelledagainst God." In other words, her heart and her "inner man" werestill walking in 'innocence' before the Lord - because there wasno DELIBERATE or "KNOWING" sin. And God actually said toher, "I did not see it." So during this whole process of committing'outward' error and stumbling, her heart remained pure before theLord. Therefore from God's viewpoint, she had DONE NOTHINGWRONG - and was still walking in "heart-purity" before Him.Do you realize what incredible liberty and freedom is in thisone principle, my friends? We can walk FREE FROM SIN! Wecan walk "clean" before God! It is the "inner man" that we needto keep clean.Does this mean that we are allowed to just go and sin 'outwardly'then? No - not at all. Then we would be "KNOWINGLY" sinning.The whole point of this is that we do not DELIBERATELY orKNOWINGLY sin. Therefore we remain pure of heart. It becomesour 'natural' state of being. -To walk this way.Note that we must have gone through 'DEEP REPENTANCE'and have an inbuilt "HATRED OF SIN" to even start to walk inthis. Otherwise it simply will not work. We also (of course) needthe Holy Spirit!What freedom - what liberty - if we can simply walk before Godin the "inner man" with no known sin. That's what this is all about!It is the free gift of God in Christ Jesus. Thankyou, Father!"The secret of backsliding is, that reformations are not carried deep enough. Christians are not set with all their hearts to aim at a speedy deliverance from all sin, but on the contrary are left, and in many instances taught, to indulge the expectation that they shall sin as long as they live."-Charles G. Finney

Does this mean that we are allowed to just go and sin 'outwardly'then? No - not at all. Then we would be "KNOWINGLY" sinning.The whole point of this is that we do not DELIBERATELY or KNOWINGLY sin. Therefore we remain pure of heart.This is a good example of extremism. Those who hold this view can indeed regard themselves as 'sinless" But ask their spouse or work associates about them, and you may discover that they may have a more balanced view of the "saint". Diane

Have you ever noticed that our world tends to admire very unbalanced people. They may have one extraordinary talent, have made outstanding acheivements in a certain area, have been the best something in the world... But they may have grave emotional or relational weaknesses, they may have a failed marriage. They may have absolutely no ability to tend to the ordinary maintanance needs of their home. They may lack social skills.Generally speaking well- balanced people are very ordinary people. Diane