wolves in sheeps clothing

one point i am pondering at the moment and trying to expand on in my spiritual understanding iswe have a fleshly body which is always driven to sin and we have a spiritual body which is always driven to God (when we are born again)God knows this and is compassionate towards us when we sin. it is only under firery testing that we see which is the ruling member with in us. if the wolf nature is stronger then your spirit nature then how does the Lord see this if we are covered and justified by his blood.if we are wolves in sheeps clothing then what are different tools given from God to bind this nature.any one got their own experiences let me know. i have heard alot of theories in this but i want to expand."Fight the Fight and bind the Flight"crusader

helloto say that we do not have a wolf nature as christians is to say that we are incapable of sin is it not these members that war with in us? the sheeps clothing is the lords covering over us and his covenant made with us when we are born again is it not. to sacrifice ourselves to christ is to give up what our flesh nature desires and do the will of God?E.g my flesh desires me to sit down and relax without working yet my spirit tell's me that this is not the will of God nor is it profitable. i personaly don't see the sheeps clothing as a deception but rather a covering. if i am aware of my wolf nature that stands against God then when i recognize it and it is revealed to me in the word, then i can ask my lord to change me to become more like him.Question: if the lord lifted his covering of me " would i have the understanding of this world or Gods? For it is through Christ that my eye's are opened and the word is revealed.Logically this understanding only highlights the Lords rightiousness and his wonderfull glory compared to our fallen state.like to hear other peoples understanding in this area?

Crusader,I believe that Watchman Nee's book The Normal Christian Life may be of much help to you. He deals very specifically with our Adamic nature and how God deals with it through the cross.Here is a link to a site where you can read this book online or download it in pdf format and print it out...The Normal Christian LifeIn Christ,Ron

thanks i will read it and see what he has to say about the subject. i have read widely in this area but some things just don't match up when putting all the pieces together. I was hoping someone had seen this in a different light to what the norm is. when looking at my posts i proberbly seem confronting or a bit out there but i know that God reveals his pearls of wisdom to those who study his word and have an ear to hear! so i am on this site to hear and decifer what is from God and what is not?

Quote:if we are wolves in sheeps clothing then what are different tools given from God to bind this nature.We are Saints not wolves. We are to Hold Captive every thought unto the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are to examine ourselves, are we walking in the Spirit or are we walking in the Flesh.Quote:it is only under firery testing that we see which is the ruling member with in us. if the wolf nature is stronger then your spirit nature then how does the Lord see this if we are covered and justified by his blood.-If the Wolf Nature is “Stonger” then your Spirit Nature then how does the Lord see this if we are covered and justified by his blood?Just because we are covered with the Righteousness of His Son Jesus, and we are cleansed by his blood from Sin does not give us the licensed to allow this old nature to manifest.One of the tools given to us is his word. We are in this world but we are not of this world. When we are trying to convey our thoughts to one another, are we in the Spirit or are we in the Flesh? When we are eager to know what would push a person over board?? Are we in the Spirit or are we in the Flesh. Quote: No theory, but you can't "wear" sheep clothing ... you're either a Sheep or ya ain't.What makes you a sheep, is it your wool? Is it that you are part of a flock? Or is it that you are a partaker of this gift called “Salvation”? Yessss Question: if the lord lifted his covering of me " would i have the understanding of this world or Gods? Answer: Both – You were once of this world. You talked, and acted like the world. Now you have an understanding and appearance of his Son understand his kingdom, his ways, his attributes if you will.

Dear Crusader,Before a person is saved, they are a lost sheep. Then, Christ comes and saves them. A wolf stalks sheep in order to devour them. Not all people who are unsaved are wolves seeking to destroy God's sheep. Some are goats (Matt 25:32-33). Goats are not seeking to devour God's people, rather, they just refuse to accept Christ. A wolf in sheep's clothing is someone who is disguised as a sheep that is seeking to devour God's people. These are people in the Church who do not believe in Christ, who are not saved, that everyone thinks is saved, but are decieved. Such persons would include false teachers or false prophets. As another note, the Lord's blood doesn't just cover our sins. Jesus said, "You must be born again." (John 3:7) This implies a complete transformation. Your sins are not covered or blanketed. They are removed. They are gone. A person who has been born again is made into a "new creation." (2 Corinthians 5:17)to sacrifice ourselves to christ is to give up what our flesh nature desires and do the will of God?This is true, but the thing most people don't realize is that only Jesus can do this. Only Jesus has the power to defeat sin and do God's will. That is why Jesus said, "You must be born again." We need Jesus to come down and change us. We need Him to make us into a new person. We need Him to conquer sin in us. God's part is to do the work. Our part is to trust in Him. This means we give ourselves to Jesus Christ, and let Him work in us. If we try to defeat sin on our own, then we will fail. However, if we call out to Jesus to save us, then we will have victory, not because we have defeated the Devil or sin, but because Jesus our Lord has done so. There is a huge difference between a covering and a transformation. A covering is external. A transformation is internal. If you are wearing is a covering, then on the inside, you are still a sinful person. There is no change in you. However, if Jesus Christ has entered into you, and is living inside of you, then you are no longer a sinner. You are sin free. This doesn't mean you will not fall into sin. However, if Jesus is living inside of you, your heart will always be clean. You will never again be a sinner. Jesus is perfect and without sin. If Jesus is living inside the heart of a person, then the heart of that person is perfect and without sin.Watchman Nee discusses all this in the book Ron suggested in the post above. I would also recommend reading it. Hope this helps,In love,Blake

This doesn't mean you will not fall into sin. However, if Jesus is living inside of you, your heart will always be clean. You will never again be a sinner. Jesus is perfect and without sin. If Jesus is living inside the heart of a person, then the heart of that person is perfect and without sin.Beenblake, I am not entirely comfortable with this statement. It seems that you are taking truth just one notch over the edge. I'd prefer to refer to myself as a sinner saved by grace. Christ within me is sinless, but my heart is far from it. (heart = will) What does it mean that Christ is within us? Does it not mean that his Spirit is working through us and in us so that we decrease and he increases? I cannot think of a more powerful way to decrease than when we recognize our own bent to faill, and especially those times when we find ourselves falling into the very sin that we thought we were beyond. Goats:The difference between goat-ish sinners and sheep-ish sinners is the direction they are facing. Goats have their backs towards the Lord and sheep face the Lord. Goats walk down the path to destruction. Sheep will become more and more Chrislike as they go along.ImpostorsYou can't always tell innitially which path the sheep and a sheep-imposter are on - especially when it's easy to wear sheep's clothing, and no one can tell. In fact many like to reward the sheep-imposters with their money, admiration, and allegiance. That's because they are so convinced that the wolf is a sheep. But eventually it will be obvious: “… They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” 1 Jn. 2:19 "To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life which is in the paradise of God." Rev. 2:7 Diane

ummmm. what???this post really tripped me out. ok.Firstly....no Christian can be both a sheep and a wolf. no Christian can be both a sinner and a saint. no Christian can be both dead and alive. no Christian can be continuing to sin and ceasing from sin. no Christian can be saved and not saved. Jesus said to the adulterous wmone "go ye and sin no more" NOT go and try not to sin.John says that a Christian ceases to sin in the epistles. Paul says to "live godly in this present age" (Titus 2)etc. etc.Be not decieved by these teachers who say "peace peace" when there is no peace. These false prohets are inward wolves, not sheep.God bless u all!

Hey crusader,If you like to listen to sermons, check out the sermon {Wolves} by Carter Conlon in the audio section. It is on page 9.In Christ,GaryE

Hi AnnieSorry if i frustrated you with my second response. i show you why in the little time i have how i tend to fall towards the wolves in sheeps clothing being us rather then outsiders.Galations 5:17 " For the flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."If our adam nature is thought about as a "wolf nature" this would also line up with romans discription of a fallen mans state. Romans also says that Gods righteousness is on us through faith and in ephesians is says to put on the breast plate of rightiousness and the whole armour of God which is to protect us.in Romans 7.22-23, 25 it describs the warring that is inside a christian.The concept of a wolf and sheep living together would deffinitly be of the same actions as in the above scripture verse.i once came from the teachings that the wolf in sheeps clothing had nothing to do with me and that it was other sinfull people. while Chewing on Gods word i am getting deeper into the fallen state of man this gives me a greater perspective on Gods glorious sinless nature and allows me to understand how much he loves me and is willing to make a covenat with me. it once again brings me into humility and shows me that while on this earth i must allow Christ to grow in me so that my flesh is subdued is this not our testimony of his power and might.yes there is only 4 references to the word wolves in the bible but cross reference these with the old testiment and it opens up. the word wolf is a typology of a characteristic. i have had a wolf characteristic and i am very aware that with out the lords loving mercy i could fall into this characteristic very easily but i don't because just like paul i won't to win the race. When our flesh is placed under the law we can who we really are but God puts his Righteousness on us through our faith which no longer condems us under the law. notice that Gods Righteousness is put on us and that the armour is put on us. Many times when i have had dreams or saw visions i had to test my spirit and make sure that the interpretation was from God and not my fleshly nature because if it is from my flesh then it is false. please people when i put a post in it is to for me to grow in Gods understanding because God reveals his wisdom through out his body and not just to one person. the fleshly nature of us is revealed through out scripture as different animals that is why we have discriptions in the old testiments of unclean animals in the bible. a false prophet is anybody who professes something from God when it is not. i have heard preachers who are Godly men miss the mark in this area but later on recant their words because they become aware that it was their interprtation and not the lords. to say that we do not have a wolf nature is to say that we cannot fall into these area's that are discribed hence breeding a prideful boast and exalting ones self above everyone else have to go will be back :-)

Crusader,I think you should be calling it a "sinful nature" instead of a "wolf nature." There is a big difference. To have a "wolf nature" means that it is your goal to go around undetected devouring sheep(Christians). I am hopeful that is not the nature you are battling against.Also, I have yet to meet anyone in a sinless condition this side of the grave. We are all sinners saved by grace. Sin is no longer our master.Murray

hi murrayit is not our Goal to go around undetected devouring christians yet without Gods restraint and mercy is that not what our sinful nature does? yes sin is no longer our master once we have put on the rightiousness of Christ and it is this very knowledge that we must humble our selves and know that without God we our flesh would scream against him! Romans, Job and proverbs opens this up.i once was full of violence but when the lord came into my life he revealed to me how wrong this was and by his Grace and mercy he changed me and gave me a strength in this area and taught me to love people. I know with in my spirit that if i walked away from God this area would rise again because it is God that reveals it and restrains it. :-) cheers

hi i think it's best if i leave these kinds of ponderings from this site. i appreciate the comments but i feel some area's would remain stumbling blocks and of no merit if i continue to discuss it on this site, it will go around in circles. i try to stand out of the circle when it comes to foundational teachings as an effort to use a midrush study method. the reason being i saw a very large church group, fall to a false doctrine and alot of people hurt. if i had not questioned the teachings and view points then i would be still sitting in that church. a recent study found that 90% of people will say yes to something and back it if it has the majority of support whether or not it is true.hey it's all good, said my question, no one had any comments for it, so i leave it there.thankyou for your replies, on other issues i have enjoyed your anwsers and taken them on board. crusader

i like the spirit behind the words that you replied. i would love an email if there is a post on midrash so i can enter it. my training recieved to interprete scripture was Arthur pinks book called "the interpretation of scripture" plus other training but i found the rules aplied in the book are of the highest standard that i have seen and have not found a book on this subject that cover's the area's that he does. one thing that i have learn't strongly in this post is that there are different view points and i must choose my words skillfully. it's all a learning curve! :-)

Beenblake, I am not entirely comfortable with this statement. It seems that you are taking truth just one notch over the edge. I'd prefer to refer to myself as a sinner saved by grace. Christ within me is sinless, but my heart is far from it. (heart = will)What does it mean that Christ is within us? Does it not mean that his Spirit is working through us and in us so that we decrease and he increases? I cannot think of a more powerful way to decrease than when we recognize our own bent to faill, and especially those times when we find ourselves falling into the very sin that we thought we were beyond. Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh."Dear Diane,I can understand your concern to give Christ all the glory, not keeping any to yourself. We should all seek to bring glory to Christ rather than seek our own. However, you must also know the change Christ makes in a person when they are born again. This change is of the utmost importance because Christ takes a sinner and transforms them into a saint, whose righteousness will shine. When we are born again, we are given a new heart and a new Spirit. This change is significant and of the utmost importance. This change is symbolized by baptism. We die to ourselves and are raised into new life. Sin in us is dead. We are made into a new creation. We are completely new. There is no sin in us. As a sinner, our heart/will is corrupted and far from the will of the Father. However, this change made in us, transforms our will and aligns it with the will of God. We are thus made new. We are sinners no longer. Many Christians fear embracing this because we still fall into sin, and also because they fear pride. Christians still fall into sin, not because Christ is not strong enough, but only because God allows us to sin in order to keep us humble. Our sin reminds us that we need Jesus. His grace is sufficient. His power is enough.Even though Christians may fall into sin, our heart is pure. (That is why our mistakes are called stumbling. A person who stumbles does not do so intentionally.) Our hearts have been been united as one with Christ, and there is no longer a division in us. In the above statement you said, "Christ within me is sinless, but my heart is far from it". If this is true, then a division still exists within you. There is you and Christ, and the two are separate. However, if you have been born again, then there are no longer two. There is one. You are one with Christ, and therefore, you are perfect and sinless just as Christ is perfect and sinless. If you heart is far from being sinless, then your heart is also far from Christ who is sinless. If Christ lives in your heart, then your heart is sinless. God cannot dwell where sin is. Your heart must be cleansed by Christ, you must be born again, in order for Christ to dwell in you. The goal of Christ is not to make us decrease. Rather, the goal of Christ is to make us increase. We were once poor and unwealthy sinners, who Christ has changed into children of God. The nature of love is not to make oneself less, but to make other's more. I love my fiance dearly. I would never seek to make her less, or myself less. When we become husband and wife, we will be united as one. If she is made less, then I am made less. Christ seeks to make us greater in order that He can be made greater in us. We were created to be a reflection of God, just as the moon reflects the sun. When the moon shines brighter, it brings glory to the sun. Likewise, for every good deed we commit, it makes Christ shine brighter. The greater our light shines, the more Christ is glorified.By this, Christ has not made us decrease, rather, He has lifted us up, just as He was lifted up. We have died with Him. We have been resurrected into new life. We share in all that Christ is. We have a relationship with Him and to Him. We are one with Christ. I could write many, many pages on this subject of the transforming power of Christ. Our new birth and oneness with Christ is so essential. That is what it means to be a Christian. If you don't know this, I plead with you to seek it out. Start a post asking others about it. Learn all you can about this. There is no greater joy then being totally consecrated to Jesus Christ, to be so united with Him as one that there is no longer "me" or "self" but only love.I pray Christ will be yours,In love,Blake