For God so loved the world,we as christians need to love the world with all our hearts,they are dieing and going too hell what are we doing for the the gospels sake.jesus didnt come for the right, but the wrong.WHAT ARE WE DOING are we feeding the hungry, the homeless,the stinking vile murderer the rapepest ect ect,judgement starts at the house of God. :-P
Hi rakkanakknal,Your post is a bit difficult to read... the words seem too close together .... Would you mind using the 'edit' option to put in a few more spaces, after commas and full stops? Readability always helps future readers to stay a thread, too.Now, you asked what are we doing for the the gospels sakeIs this a question to which you would like answers from brothers and sisters on SI? I'm going to assume so, although there may be some things that people do, which they don't want to mention, because then it looks like bragging. Then there is a problem in writing about one's own walk with God, for the same reason. Jesus said John 4:23, 24" .. the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." I believe this is the basis of all service - the fulfilment of the first commandment.... which is in keeping with your use of the sentence from it we as christians need to love ... with all our hearts I believe 'the world' can be translated 'people' and should not be confused with loving the things of the world. (This difference is not obvious to everyone on first hearing of the phrase 'love the world'. 1 John 2:15)Unless we are receiving what we need for our own salvation, directly from the Lord, we are not, I believe, in a good position to meet, in depth, the needs of 'the wrong' as you put it. I would further temper the need for ministry to 'the wrong' with their responsibility to respond to God in their own hearts, and to follow after what they have apprehended, as Paul said:Philippians 3:16 Nevertheless, to [the degree] that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind. Lastly, about reaching the lost, we have to expect to exercise the same kind of patience towards their unbelief, confusion and sin-sickness, as the Father has exercised towards ours.That means developing stamina.... not just slapping them with a presentation of the gospel, demanding a response, and then running off when they start needing support.... Or because now we are not sure what to do next... But, bearing with their anxieties honestly, praying for the healing which many violent people need deep down inside, and bearing them - as precious cargo - to the Father's heart... although at times they may need long periods of simply 'being' accepted by the believer who thus cares for their souls.If you don't mind my saying so, I don't care for the adjectives you attached to 'murderer', because it prejudices how others think. All we need is the mind of Christ towards those for whom He died. We have to remember, 'murder' was an early sin recorded in the Bible (after disobedience and anger) and God, from way back then, makes it clear He is bearing that sin too. He understands all about murder, because Satan murdered His image in mankind; when Adam died, God lost His son. (Luke 3:38) We have to show the same kind of tenderness towards murderers, as Jesus did by His dying for them. I think that means finding a quality of love which is not natural to man, in our hearts, from Him.John 8:44 "You are of [your] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and [does not] stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [resources,] for he is a liar and the father of it. Much more could be said about sexual immorality, but basically, it is a sign of an idolatrous heart, which needs to throw down those strongholds which keep it from worshipping God in spirit and in truth.... The sign of a heart changed in those matters, is the demonstration of new sexual mores.So, to sum up in answer to what am I doing for the lost? I'm allowing my inner life to be challenged by the attitudes I see in Jesus, and I'm allowing my outer life (my comfort zone) to be challenged by those (very few) needy people whom God puts in my life - to believe in their eternal worth and affirm this to their understanding by practical and spiritual ministry. Another problem with making even such a modest claim on a forum like this, is that no-one sees or hears, who can witness confirmation (unless we have an off-forum relationship with them somehow). We are, therefore, indebted to each others' forbearance and trust, to believe in us by other means, such as how we say what we say, and what we mean by what we write in our posts... questions always welcome for clarification. I realised very early on a previous forum, that if I did not want a certain attitude to stand in the public domain into the indefinite future, then quite simply, I should not post those thoughts, then open to be quoted as a valid expression of the thought of my inner heart. How that led to some editing, I will leave you to surmise. And I'm only perfect in my Father's sight, through Jesus. Please don't read this any other way.
Paul i totally agree with you on that one! We have to LOVE THE VILEST! Jesus did not call us to JUDGE THEM. "For what have i to do TO JUDGE THEM also that are without(unsaved)? do not ye judge them that are within(saved)"1Cor.5:12 John 3:17 "For God SENT NOT His Son into the world, to CONDEMN THE WORLD; but that the world through him might be SAVED". Might i add that Gifts are GIVEN, POWER is GIVEN, But LOVE is a fruit of the Spirit that must be GROWN. "But speaking the truth in LOVE, may GROW UP IN HIM in all things, which is the head, even Christ". God will judge the world. "But them that are without(unsaved) God judgeth" 1Cor.5:13
the stinking vile murdererThe sixth commandment "Thou shalt not kill"1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.If you don't mind my saying so, I don't care for the adjectives you attached to 'murderer', because it prejudices how others think. All we need is the mind of Christ towards those for whom He died. Yes and who knows how many times in our life we have hated a brother? Just a thought.
We have to LOVE THE VILEST! I'm confused. Isn't referring to someone as 'vile' or 'vilest' a way of judging them?That's what I was getting at when I objected to the phrase 'stinking, vile' which Geraldine quoted. Surely, it is unbecoming to refer to people in these terms, even in our minds privately, let alone in a public forum?How do we think we are being read by those who do not know the Lord? Do we think they will want to know us and confide in us? Don't we remember that until we were washed in the blood of the Lamb, we too were stinking, vile sinners?I'm glad to say, though, I am really blessed by this mini-exposition, and thank you.Might i add that Gifts are GIVEN, POWER is GIVEN, But LOVE is a fruit of the Spirit that must be GROWN. "But speaking the truth in LOVE, may GROW UP IN HIM in all things, which is the head, even Christ".
I Think some of us misunderstand the urgency in the statement to "Lve the stinking vile murder". Love is not a theological discourse. Either you can love unconditionally(without prejudice) or you can try to cause you think that person has some "good" in them. There is "none" good. Can you love somebody who is "vile", "disgusting", "self-condemning"? Could you love Hitler as he roasted jews, pulled out their teeth, and peeled off their skin? How about the (adjective!)"stinking" drunk? Cheap woman? Next time you see that foul sinner, love em.
I Think some of us misunderstand the urgency in the statement to "Lve the stinking vile murder".Hi Dave,If this is to be a discussion about love, then I would appreciate it if everyone who participates in the thread, desists from adding adjectives like 'stinking' and 'vile' to the other definition of the sins a person may have committed, such as murder or rape.Are we really discussing our attitude to these sins, or to the people who commit them?Maybe I'm being a bit slow here, but, if a Christian feels called to preach the gospel because they understand the urgency of the need to save souls, what difference does it make to the preacher, to know (or care) about the specific sins an individual has committed?Is the preacher concerned about his own safety, or the safety of his wife and children? Is he asking himself whether he cares enough to take risks? Is he asking whether a person who may be in prison for certain crimes is worth trying to save at all? Please (anyone) why is this my third post, pointing out that it is UN-loving to continue to think in these terms - 'stinking' and 'vilest' - of murderers and rapists, as if they are any more vile than we ourselves were?Am I the only person here who sees this? Surely not!Are we actually discussing our own partiality as Christians - our hypocrisy, in other words?
Hello dorcas...I understand that these words are a bit "rough", but these are the words of passion, not judgement(to the sinner, or anybody else). Perhaps its to grab us by the collar, and wake us to the reality of whats out there. "vile" is used 19 times in the Holy Bible. "Sodomites" is used 4 times. Put the two together, and you have "Vile sodomites". The Bible is filled with strong, course language. Hows for this.. "They are all Adulterers, as OVEN HEATED by the baker" Hosea.7:4 Dont get offended by the delivery..just colorful adjectives used by our brother Rakkanaknal.
"vile" is used 19 times in the Holy Bible. "Sodomites" is used 4 times. Put the two together, and you have "Vile sodomites". Please could you find scripture which backs up your thesis?.... I don't mean just the use of the word 'vile', but where God applies it to the people rather than their actions.You quoted Hosea 7:4 ' "They are all Adulterers, as OVEN HEATED by the baker" but you will notice the all-important 'as' right there in the middle. It is a figure of speech.
I will do some homework on this!
I think God is quite clear on His opinions sometimes. Just off the top of my head.."Him that loveth violence, His(God's)soul HATETH" Ps.11:5 God has expressed Hs hatred in this scripture-"yet i loved Jacob, and i HATED Esau" Mal.1:2,3 These are personal, and declarative! God Hated Esau, or did he Hate what he did? Looks to me like He hated him...dorcas wrote:
"vile" is used 19 times in the Holy Bible. "Sodomites" is used 4 times. Put the two together, and you have "Vile sodomites". Please could you find scripture which backs up your thesis?.... I don't mean just the use of the word 'vile', but where God applies it to the people rather than their actions.You quoted Hosea 7:4 ' "They are all Adulterers, as OVEN HEATED by the baker" but you will notice the all-important 'as' right there in the middle. It is a figure of speech.
This sounds like a debate over word meaning, etc. I think it goes a bit deeper than that, though.We are told to make judgment- righteous judgment. But to be able to love a sinner, righteously judging him, is a delicate thing. The balance lies in our understanding of sin and salvation.In "Ten Shekels and a Shirt" Paris Reidhead at one point says "If you've ever truly seen yourself, you know that you're never going to be anything than what you were." It's in reference to being a sinner. If you believe that any of us can be sinless this side of eternity, I'll say flat-out that you're wrong. Now, don't confuse this with our sanctification because of Jesus as our atonement- that is exactly the point. Not one of us can, or will ever be able to stand before the Lord on our own righteousness. We are sanctified by our faith in Christ's death alone as our atonement.Jumping back to judgment, we're told to judge, but warned to do it correctly. Should I look at the muslim and be afraid to challenge whether or not he'll go to heaven? Of course not. He rejects Christ, will die in his sins and self-righteousness, and will not enter heaven because of it. That right there is righteous judgment. Am I any better? More deserving of mercy? No! I, also, deserve an eternity of Hell because of my rebellion against God. This is where the word-play should fit in. "Vile Sinner", "Nice Guy", etc. Not one is better, and every one deserves judgment. God loves both, and so should we. But there's a penalty that must be paid, and if they don't accept Jesus' sacrifice on their behalf, they will pay themselves. We have been told how they will be judged. And it's in the same way that we can make righteous judgment.Now, I'm not a very articulate writer, so I hope there's no confusion. I'll try to answer if there is any. I like the phrase "Hate the sin, love the sinner." I like it because it's how God does it. And it is possible to love the sinner while knowing and making known the judgment of the sin.
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