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Presenting the Apostrophe

sermonindex May 7, 2006


A few weeks ago, I asked Mike Balog if I could write a Help section, to explain how the apostrophe should be used correctly. He welcomed the thought.

Then, two things struck me. It will be boring to read, and [i]needs[/i] to be more interactive, and, there is quite a lot of [i]brainwork[/i] involved, so, that's another good reason to do it slowly, like here, in a thread. At the end, it can be condensed into the main points and examples.

Anyone who is starting from a place of confusion, will have an extra portion of sorting out, so they come to understand where they go wrong, and what to do about it.


Here, I want to begin to lay out a thumbnail of the topics we need to sort between; today, nouns and verbs.

The brainwork I mentioned is largely around the many times there is an (s) at the end of a word. You have to [u]know[/u] what it is there for.

For instance, is the word a plural noun, like [u]ladies[/u], where the [u]ies[/u] at the end, is the plural of the noun "lady", (which ends in y), or, is it a verb such as [u]tarries[/u], where the infinitive "to tarry" ends in a (y)?

Thinking about this made me wonder whether everyone is sure of the difference between a noun and a verb?

In the UK, the teaching of grammar was abandoned for about 25 years, and has recently resumed. That means we have parents and graduates who have no idea how to pick out a verb. No matter how hazy you are, I hope this will soon become history.


Here are two questions:

Can you have a sentence without a verb in it?

How many nouns are in the following sentence?


[b]The cat's tail is black.[/b]

I
InTheLight May 7, 2006

It appears the Apostles wouldn't approve of our appalling application of the apostrophe.

1. no
2. two

In Christ,

Ron

C
crsschk May 8, 2006

Grammar lessons! Needed!

A wonderful and helpful idea. There is a majesty in language and in words. Being that a great deal of this is in attempting to expound or define what is often the inexpressible altered disposition of the saints ... It is welcomed. I know I need it, spent far too many days with my head in the clouds rather than paying attention all those years ago.

L
lastblast May 9, 2006

The cat's tail is black.

The---(article)
cat's----(adjective)
tail--- (subject/noun)
is---(state of being verb)
black----(predicate adjective)

1. No
2. One

:-)

PS. I didn't know just how bad my grammer was until I started homeschooling this year. :-P

Blessings in Him, Cindy

T
Tears_of_joy May 9, 2006

I think this will be useful also for us that english is not our native language :-)

So, go on, it's your turn, I will read and learn :-)

Oh, yes, I have one question for now:

Is there any difference between "I'm" and "I am" and if yes, when/where/how should I use "I'm" and "I am"?

Thank you.
Kire

I
InTheLight May 9, 2006

We also began homeschooling this past year and I have been reminded of some principles of grammar that I had forgotten over the years. It's kinda humbling to learn along with your kids.

cat's----(adjective)

I believe this is incorrect, the 's simply marks the noun (cat) as the possessor of the noun that follows (tail).

In Christ,

Ron

L
lastblast May 9, 2006

I believe this is incorrect, the 's simply marks the noun (cat) as the possessor of the noun that follows (tail).

Hi Ron.

Well, if I would have seen that sentence several months ago, I would have agreed with you. However, I just got done teaching a section on adjectives in Language Arts.

Adjectives answer these questions: which one, what kind, how many, how much, or whose. A possessive noun can very well be an adjective.

Here are some of the examples of adjectives I found in my book:

the singer's booming voice (singer and booming both modify the noun/subject, voice)

Paul's teachings (answers the question of "whose" teachings. Paul's would be considered a proper adjective).

Teacher's desk (answers whose desk it is)

This is what the Abeka books teach. It is confusing, I have to admit. No wonder many foreigners think English is such a difficult language to learn......it's even difficult for us English-speaking peoples. ;-)

Blessings, Cindy

sermonindex May 9, 2006


Hi Ron (InTheLight) and Cindy (lastblast),

I'm glad to have your input, really.

With it, as well as what I had in mind, there is the potential to cover more than I intended - which was to concentrate on the [i]thought processes[/i] required to decide where an apostrophe should be put, and only for that purpose, to be able to distinguish between a noun and a verb.

I will spend more time defining nouns, than adjectives.

Also, of course we will look at the possessive pronouns.

My experience is in adult literacy / dyslexia accommodation education, only, and for people who already have a good command of spoken English and sometimes a highly specialised vocabulary, the emphasis is different from teaching children - partly because they will never be sitting the same exams as children will face.

sermonindex May 9, 2006


Hi Kire,

You have raised another instance of the use of the apostrophe, in a very neat example; thank you.

You have shown how the apostrophe can be used in place of letters which are not being pronounced out loud, even though they belong in the written word when it stands alone, such as "am".

Is there any difference between "I'm" and "I am" and if yes, when/where/how should I use "I'm" and "I am"?
In general, if you are [u]writing[/u] anything formal, you should drop all the apostrophes you can, such as in "I'm", "it's" (for "it is"), "don't" (for "do not") and others like them.

But, in [i][b]spoken[/b][/i] English, or when writing informally to friends or family, you can [i]write[/i] [u]the way you speak[/u], using the apostrophes to shorten the phrases.

Please tell me, Kire, if this answers your question enough?


Could we (anyone) make a list of other examples, where the apostrophe is used to signify one or more letters which have been dropped from the written words?

G
ginnyrose May 9, 2006

Kire,



Is there any difference between "I'm" and "I am" and if yes, when/where/how should I use "I'm" and "I am"?

Using these forms is also called contractions. At least this is what we were taught many moons ago when I was in grade school.

Ok, now I will back off. My grammer is not perfect either.

ginnyrose

I
InTheLight May 9, 2006

Adjectives answer these questions: which one, what kind, how many, how much, or whose. A possessive noun can very well be an adjective.

My understanding is that it is a possessive noun that is [i]acting[/i] as a adjective modifying another noun. So I guess it is indeed acting as an adjective and yet it remains a possessive noun.

In Christ,

Ron

T
Tears_of_joy May 9, 2006

Please tell me, Kire, if this answers your question enough?

Yes! Thank you. :-)

sermonindex May 9, 2006

Ron said

it is a possessive noun that is [u]acting as a adjective[/u] [b]modifying another noun[/b]..... and yet it remains a [b]possessive noun[/b].
In the first example I gave, of

"The [b]cat's[/b] tail is black", "cat's" is a "possessive noun", as Ron points out.


"cat" [u]is[/u] a noun.

"tail" is also a noun, when standing alone.

"black" can also be a noun, in that it is the name of the colour of the tail...

But, we can arrive at calling "black" a noun, [i]only[/i] by rearranging the way the information is presented.... This is an important writing skill, although the example is simple.

[b]What colour is the cat's tail? It is black.[/b]

Phrased like this, there is no doubt "black" is [u]the name[/u] of [u]the colour[/u].


The different sentences [i]mean[/i] the same, but "black" and "cat" are serving different purposes in each arrangement.

If I had said, "The cat has a black tail." the analysis of the sentence would have made "black" [i]an adjective[/i], describing [u]the noun[/u] "tail".


Notice that in order [b]to play around with the nouns[/b], [u]the verb has altered[/u] from "is" to "has".....

Notionally, within the "has" an apostrophe is hiding, because the [i][b]meaning[/i][/b] of "have" and "has", is [b][i]possession, or possessive[/i][/b].


By referring to the cat's [u]ownership[/u] of its tail, we create a [b][u]possessive[/u] noun[/b].

An apostrophe is needed, between the end of the noun, and the (s), "cat's".


Now, can I just apologise immediately to all the English teachers reading this? I have no intention of using technical language, because technical language is unnecessary to learn [u]the skill[/u] we are discussing.

However, please feel free to post corrections to your hearts' content, as I am more than willing to learn what I can from this exercise. ;-)

P
PreachParsly May 9, 2006

[url=http://www.hiway.co.uk/~ei/english/]AN ELEMENTARY ENGLISH GRAMMAR BOOK FOR UK NURSING AND TEACHING JOBS[/url]

There is a british english grammer book. There are some differences between that and american english.

EDIT: here are some more.

[url=http://www.edufind.com/english/grammar/toc.cfm]Online English Grammer handbook[/url]

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/learning/subjects/english.shtml]BBC Learning: English[/url]

sermonindex May 9, 2006


Thanks, Preach,

I'm just doing one little part, which is already growing as I watch! :-)

sermonindex May 10, 2006

When looking for nouns in text, or, in your head, as you think through what you want to write - or say - [b]nouns are the words which give a name to people, places, all kinds of things (like animals) - before which, (notionally), you would put "the" or "a" , or "an"[/b].

Of course, many times we use a noun without a "the" or an "a" or an "an" in front of it.

"the" is called "the [u]definite article[/u]" because you are referring to a specific person, place or thing.

"a" is called "the [u]in[/u]definite article", because you are referring to [b][u]a[/u]ny[/b] person, place or thing which you name.


If the noun (or the adjective preceding it) begins with a vowel - (a), (e), (i), (o), (u) - or an (h), an "an" is used instead.

an apple,
an aephid,

an elevator,
an eagle,

an indicator,
an island,

an octopus,
an omen,

an uncle,
? an unicorn, an uniform?... I don't think so. Any thoughts?

an horrible (adj) dream (noun),
an hotel,

When speaking aloud, this makes the noun flow more easily into the phrase.

When using "the" before a noun which begins with a vowel, some people [u]say[/u] it like [i][b]thee[/b][/i], because it often [i]flows[/i] better in speech, (but, the spelling remains "the" - not "thee").

the anchor,
the elephant,
the indian (adj) meal (noun),
the opera,
the umbrella


In the list after "an", you will notice all the words beginning, like [u]a[/u]pple, [u]e[/u]levator, [u]i[/u]ndicator, [u]o[/u]ctopus and [u]u[/u]ncle, (with a vowel) make the "short" sound .... this is a bit like the [i]voice[/i] of each vowel.

When a vowel "says its [u]name[/u]", it is called the "long" sound.

We will come back to this, because it is relevant both to reading with the correct pronunciation, and to spelling words correctly when you are writing them.


One of the objects of this exercise, is simply to learn how to write down what you say - how [i]you[/i] say it - correctly.

This means [i]listening[/i] carefully.

In my first post, I asked if it is possible to have a sentence without a verb?

Ron and Cindy both said "no", which is correct,
EDIT but, we do [u]not[/u] always [u]say[/u] all the words out loud.

Sometimes, several words are only [i]implied[/i]. Then, when written down, you may find you have [u]a one-word-only sentence[/u], but, [i]in the context of its use[/i], no-one is guessing its meaning. EDIT end.

We will look at this in more detail, but for the moment please believe this....

[b]We all speak in complete sentences the whole time[/b].

Whether you are [i]confident[/i] or not, with [i]written[/i] English, it is highly unlikely you do not speak good-enough English to learn how to write it.

This means that by listening [u]to yourself[/u], you may begin to hear your words in a different way, and become completely sure which are verbs and which are nouns.


So far, I've used nouns (in my examples), which you can see or touch, apart from two, maybe three, if you include "black"..... "Dream" and "omen" are [u]abstract nouns[/u].

Many times, you will be using abstract nouns when writing in sermonindex and elsewhere.

Please can you post more abstract nouns for us to discuss?

Let's go for a fairly extensive list, as I think this may be where some of the apostrophe errors are being made, sometimes by putting in an [i]unnecessary[/i] apostrophe.


Thank you.

Also, earlier, I asked for more examples such as Kire raised where "I am" becomes "I'm".

I gave the example "it is" for "it's" and
"do not" for "don't".

In some of these, you will find there is more than one letter missing, but, [u]only one apostrophe[/u]. Have courage!

Any takers?

A
allhavsinned May 11, 2006

This is a very interesting thread. I was one of those who was schooled during the years when spelling and grammer where concidered 'unimportant' and have tought myself through a lot of reading. However I can't name a noun or a verb or the other stuff, I am just aware of how the language should be written. I will read carefully your posts and glean what I can to help my english.

BTW what about this: "Jesus' coat?" (not taken from scripture) ;-)

sermonindex May 11, 2006

Hi, allhavesinned,

Thank you for this encouragement.

This is a very interesting thread.
You may also find some gleanings in my posts to deltadom's thread called Teaching People to Read, although I wrote them more to the people who might be trying to set up adult literacy classes at their churches.

BTW what about this: "Jesus' coat?" (not taken from scripture) ;-)
Nice one!

I've been wondering when answering this would become unavoidable... ;-)

You are correct.

Jesus is a name ending in (s), like James, Marcus, Lilias, and many names from countries where English is not the first language learned.

Usually, one reserves putting the apostrophe [i][b]after[/b] the (s)[/i][u] for plural nouns[/u].

For instance, I went to a school which rejoiced in the title of "Ladies' College" - the College belonging to the Ladies. There was a Boys' College, too, by the same name (of the benefactor).

Here are more examples of [i]possessive[/i] [u]plural nouns[/u].

(Plural = more than one; singular = only one.)


horses' shoes
hunters' guns
gardeners' gloves

Notice that usually when the possessive noun is plural, so is the things they possess (or own).

"Ladies' College" is a much rarer combination of a plural possessive noun "Ladies' " (acting as an adjective to describe the College) and a singular possession, "College".


Going back to "Jesus' coat", this is completely correct, but, colloquially (that is, in common usage - spoken English), the addition of an extra (s) has become common.

So then it makes it easier to know the apostrophe goes before the last(s) in "Jesus's coat", or James's Park.... but technically this in incorrect, and there is no need [i][b]in writing[/i][/b] to add that last (s).

The addition of an extra (s) after a singular noun ending in (s), has the effect of [u]over-simplifying (or over-complicating!) the apostrophe rule[/u], to make all singular possessive nouns end "apostrophe (s)", as in "cat's tail"...... but only from one perspective.

[b]More correctly, [u]if a possessive noun ends in (s)[/u], whether it is a singular or a plural noun, [u]the apostrophe ALWAYS goes after it[/u][/b].

I
InTheLight May 11, 2006

If the noun (or the adjective preceding it) begins with a vowel...

an unicorn, an uniform?... I don't think so. Any thoughts?

I believe that the rule should read "if the noun (or the adjective preceding it) begins with a vowel [i]sound[/i]...

So, 'unicorn' begins with a consanant [i]sound[/i] (y sound) and therefore should be preceded by 'a' whereas 'uncle' starts with a vowel sound and therefore should be preceded by 'an'.

In some of these, you will find there is more than one letter missing, but, only one apostrophe. Have courage! Any takers?

This one seems a bit odd when you think about it...

will not = won't


In Christ,

Ron

sermonindex May 11, 2006

This one seems a bit odd when you think about it...

will not = won't

Yes. "Will not" is probably the [i]most[/i] altered, but there are a number of others which also drop more than one letter.

Here's a clue. Sometimes an (e) is dropped, as well as the (o) in "not".

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