I have been listening to alot of Derek Prince teachings on demonology and expelling them. I have found to my experience that he is very sound on this topic. But wisdom is found in a multitude of counselors, therefore I was wondering what everyone thought about him and his ministry...
I particular want to know about the question whether or not Christians can have demons.
I'm not really familar with him. Does he believe a Christian can have demons or no?
I really rate him, I like his style.
If I am not mistaken he uses the logic, that if the word points toward a certain direction of truth it must be valid. At the same time however if another part of the word appears to indicate another aspect of the same truth he does not discredit the first position.
So in between these two points you may roam, and no further, I suppose another way of putting it is to say he does not choose calvinism or armenianism, they are both in the bible. :-)
As you can tell he is one of my favourite bible teachers.
Derek Prince
While serving with the British army in World War II, he began to study the Bible and experienced a life-changing encounter with Jesus Christ. Out of this encounter he formed two conclusions: first, that Jesus Christ is alive; second, that the Bible is a true, relevant, up-to-date book. These conclusions altered the whole course of his life. Since then, he has devoted his life to studying and teaching the Bible. He is a huge authority on Demonology and Excorcism.
He believes that demons can't be possessed but he believes they can have demons though. He makes a distinction in the greek translation of the word possesion.
3.To be demonized
G1139
δαιμονίζομαι
daimonizomai
\tTo be demonized. KJV incorrectly translates to be “possessed with devils.” There is nothing in the greek to support the use of the word “possessed,” which is completely misleading. See Matt.8:16,28,33; 9:32; 12:22; 15:22; Mark 1:32; 5:15, 16, 18; Luke 8:36
He states that there is not implication of possession in the greek in either this word or in any other of the words used to describe those who have demonic problems.
If you have time listen to this teaching and let me know what you think...
ZekeO,
I agree with you it seems that he has a balanced view on many different things. Did you happen to ever listen to any of his 'deliverance teachings' which he seems to be balanced in as well?
I cannot remember too many details, but I do know it was one of the people God used to place some good theology in me. He is very methodical about it, and I can't imagine him getting wound up casting devils out/off people.
Forevidence wrote:
ZekeO,I agree with you it seems that he has a balanced view on many different things. Did you happen to ever listen to any of his 'deliverance teachings' which he seems to be balanced in as well?
I think what makes me like him is what you mentioned in your previous post about him. He learned greek as a scholar and not as a seminary student. This I feel gives him allot of credence to his understanding of greek tenses and meaning. He read the greek, with the understanding of the language not necessarily looking for the greek to mean something based upon his pet theology.
and I can't imagine him getting wound up casting devils out/off people.
Wow!That is suprising. He mostly known for doing that! You need to listen to that teaching that I put below in my presvious posts.
Forevidence wrote
This makes sense from my experience. Demons affect the way a person thinks, and being freed from a demon affects how the person thinks afterwards. It is theHe believes that demons can't be possessed but he believes they can have demons though. He makes a distinction in the greek translation of the word possesion.3.To be demonized
G1139
δαιμονίζομαι
daimonizomai
To be demonized. KJV incorrectly translates to be “possessed with devils.” There is nothing in the greek to support the use of the word “possessed,” which is completely misleading. See Matt.8:16,28,33; 9:32; 12:22; 15:22; Mark 1:32; 5:15, 16, 18; Luke 8:36He states that there is not implication of possession in the greek in either this word or in any other of the words used to describe those who have demonic problems.
ZekeO said
Sounds good. I see where you're coming from, and agree.I think what makes me like him is what you mentioned in your previous post about him. He learned greek as a scholar and not as a seminary student. This I feel gives him allot of credence to his understanding of greek tenses and meaning. He read the greek, with the understanding of the language[b]not necessarily looking for the greek to mean something based upon his pet theology[/b] .
Hmm.. I don't think I Christian can "have" a demon. I think a Christian can be oppressed, in other words torrmented or pressured by one.
I just don't think that a demon can be 'in' a Christian. I just don't think the Holy Ghost and demons get along to well under the same roof. ;-)
Hi, I don't know anything about this person's theology etc but, I do agree with the impetus of the views on this thread that a Christian can not be possessed by a demon. I came to Christ through dabbling in the occult; what I experienced at my conversion made me come to the conclusion that true possession of a true Christian is impossible.
Thanks for your testimony. Praise God that God delivered you from the demonic when you first got saved. But there are others on this site and in other places that have a testimony that differ and happen to be on the other side of the argument as well.
Forevidence wrote:
Thanks for your testimony. Praise God that God delivered you from the demonic when you first got saved. But there are others on this site and in other places that have a testimony that differ and happen to be on the other side of the argument as well.
Are you sure that they are'nt just confusing being demon oppressed with demon posessed?
Well according to Derek Prince the word 'possessed' doesn't even exist in the greek language.
Evangelical Dictionary of Theology says:
The specilaized expression for Demon possession(daimonizomai) is not found in the scriptures. Scholars trace it to Josephus. The common synoptic construction is daimonion echein(to have a demon).
Greek expressions and words describing demons and their influence:
A.\tTerminology
1.\t“Devil” (Greek diablos)= Slanderer, a title of Satan himself.
Used only in the singular.
2.\t“Demon” (Greek diamon or diamonio): A spirit regarded by heathen as divine or semi-divine. Heathen religion normally cultivates or seeks to appropriate these ‘demons.’
3.\tWrongly translated in KJV as ‘devil’ or ‘devils.’ Used interchangeably with ‘evil spirit’ or ‘unclean spirit’ (compare Matt 15:22 with Mark 7:25; Mark 5:2 with Luke 8:27. See also Rev. 16:13-14.)
B.\tThree different greek expressions normally used to describe the influence of demons
1.\tTo have an unlcean/evil spirit. See Matt. 11:18; Mark 7:25; 9:17; Luke 4:33; 8:27; 13:11; John 7:20; 8:48-49, 52; 10:20-21
2.\tTo be in an unclean/evil spirit (Modern English-to be under the influence of.) See Mark 1:23; 5:2
3.\tTo be demonized. KJV incorrectly translates to be “possessed with devils.” There is nothing in the greek to support the use of the word “possessed,” which is completely misleading. See Matt. 2:24;8:16,28,33; 9:32; 12:22; 15:22; Mark 1:32; 5:15, 16, 18; Luke 8:36
Forevidence,Well according to Derek Prince the word 'possessed' doesn't even exist in the greek language.
I'm glad you're purusing a truly biblical search for understanding on this. I'm willing to change how I describe my testimony of deliverance from the influence of 'demons', but I'm aware from my reading - particularly of The Roaring Lion by missionaries to Borneo, that there is a hierarchical and geographical 'territory' associated with some spirits, and some do not venture 'into' the person at all.
That there are differences in the manifestion of demonic influence, is clear from scripture. Also, Jesus said
Matthew 17:21
Howbeit this kind goeth not [b]out
Is the word 'out' correct?
That there are differences in the manifestion of demonic influence, is clear from scripture. Also, Jesus said
Matthew 17:21
Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Is the word 'out' correct?
The word used here does mean 'to make go out', or even discharge as in bodily discharge. The Greek word is used several times in the NT but never (as far as I can see) gives the impression of casting off rather than casting out. The problem is though it doesn't resolve the debate as to whether Christians can be possessed or not. I know that there are two sides to the debate but, I still find it difficult to square the idea of Christian possession with my own experience. but, of course it is the word of God that is the arbiter not my experience. I would not wish to be dogmatic on it until I had thought and prayed it through for a time. But, I do feel a strong conviction my self, if that makes any sense. :-)
Luk 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
Luk 19:45 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought; 46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
It is interesting to see that Luke uses the same phrase "cast out" to describe not only Jesus exercising demons out of somebody, but at the same time used for the temple cleansing scene in the gospels. The same greek term is used in each, "ekBallo." ekBallo is a compound verb coming from the greek preposition "ek" meaning "out." Ballo is a greek verb that literally means "to throw." Thus, when Jesus set individuals free from demons, he literally threw them out of a person much as he did the moneychangers from the temple.
My understanding of this is that Christians can (and most certainly are on a regular basis) attacked and oppressed by demonic forces.
Possessed? No.
Oppressed? Yes.
That is, as far as a believer is concerned. I have been witness of such oppression as well as subject to both physical and mental oppression.
The difference here is that, demonic presence in the believer's life is "cast out" in a sense that they are more so "cast away" rather than the "cast out" which implies that they were manifested in them. They cannot enter the body when the believer is already filled in Spirit.
(Example: You cannot fill a cup that is already overflowing. There is no more room for such a manifestation.)
This is not always so in the life of a non-believer. They are easily overcome by that presence because they are not filled, are not overflowing and thus, can be filled with other manifestations other than the Holy Spirit. Every other "religion" in the world has a "born again" experience. Even those that do not believe in GOD have these "born again" experiences. But these "experiences" are just that, they are not real. Just a ploy from Lucifer himself to keep them from salvation and the truth.
The non-believer is not filled and is thus an empty cup, leaving room for "possession." Possession, I believe, is merely a word to describe the internal [u]oppression
In Christ,
Scroggins
There is big difference between an empty cup and a body.They cannot enter the body when the believer is already filled in Spirit.
When making such a bold statement - a Christian [i]cannot
I don't dispute that the Holy Spirit is stronger than any other spirit, but, we know the blood of the Lamb shields our Father's sensibilities from seeing us in our sin, and not all demonic opposition is because of sin. Some of it is because of past trauma, and some of it is simply [i][b] because
Whatever ground, or 'room' there is in our temple, which is vulnerable to be taken, or, is already a stronghold when we come to Christ, can be delivered into the freedom and healing which Jesus brings.
To dismiss all the testimony from Christians who were delivered from a spirit which continually or intermittently molested their peace, their sanity, the emotional equilibrium or the desires of their body, is to leave them without hope of [u]ever
This simply is [i]not
It doesn't matter if they 'say' they are or are not a Christian. What matters more, is that one of God's children needs His help and our help, to connect them with the power to free them from bondage.
...Christians can (and most certainly are on a regular basis) attacked and oppressed by demonic forces.Possessed? No.
Oppressed? Yes.
Our bodies, metaphorically, much like a cup (as believers and Christians) are filled and OVERFLOWING with the Holy Spirit. Nothing else may be inside of us but the Holy Spirit.
But when not filled and OVERFLOWING with the Holy Spirit, but dead in Spirit, tell me what lives inside? What protects us from such a thing like "possession?" Nothing Dear Sister.
Demons are real, oppression is real, deliverance is real. Whether you be a Christian or not, and whether you believe it is real or not. [b]IT [i]IS
When making such a bold statement - a Christian cannot experience 'internal oppression' from any evil spirit - you are creating a huge problem for those men and women who are following Christ to the best of their ability, but battling with overwhelming spiritual opposition, which they alone cannot shift.
Dear Sister, what problem? If they are filled with the Holy Spirit of our GOD, Jesus Christ, then how can there be another which is not of GOD within? There cannot be. And it is true they cannot shift the battle alone, for Lucifer is strong. Stronger than any man. But Christ is stronger and HIS Holy Spirit is with us. Demonic presence cannot enter a [i]real
True Sister, not all oppression is due to disobedience. Some is attack because you do what is right, and because you follow GOD. But remember, when Christ was on the cross, when HE came to this hell bound earth, HE won the battle already! We have already won. Do not let yourselves be slaves to lies that Satan would whisper in your ear and have you believe them. You are redeemed, you will not see spiritual decay. I pray that anyone oppressed would cast these oppressors aside and not let them march over you anymore.
I have been attacked by demonic entities, both physically and mentally. I have seen these demons for what they are, as if I saw flesh and blood. I have talked with these demons, and I have seen their faces inside those that would deny Christ when being spoken to of HIS grace in salvation.
I have encountered IN MY OWN WALK, much demonic oppression both on myself and on others and do not make these claims without knowledge of them.
Sister, and for that matter, EVERYONE. Forgive me if I misunderstand what you say as a rebuking statement. Forgive me if I am too harsh with my words and cause wound or scar. I do not wish to damage the hearts of HIS saints and would rather suffer in hell for all eternity than to do so.
Hi Scroggins,
I realise the appeal of insisting that anyone who is demonically oppressed and losing the battle, is not a real Christian, but, that implication is most unhelpful. The only hope a person has, is that the trust they've put in Christ, that He can make good for them.
Here, really I'm talking about the psychological warfare of victory, and that's all. I believe that those, as it were, outside the person who needs deliverance, cannot and should not, offer to tamper with the basis of their belief that Jesus can release them, by suddenly, right in the middle of battle, bringing up the possibility they are not a Christian. They have enough mental struggle, without having their heart towards God questioned.
OF COURSE, they will see more clearly and feel they know Him better and believe with less effort, after they are free, but, before then the only boat which needs to be rocked, is the oppressor's. Do you see what I mean?
And no, you were not harsh.
This discussion is locked.
