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A Clean Heart Is Possible

R
roaringlamb May 19, 2006

Beloved I post this to urge on those who are after a pure heart, and having the Lord Jesus live through them.
I have been a Christian for almost six years. Oh at first it was wonderful !!! Jesus was wonderful, I could not wait to tell everyone about Him. I moved to Santa Cruz to tell people about Him. Yet for the last at least six months, I have had no joy, no peace, no holiness. I struggled with lust, with the praise of man, bitterness, envy, gossip, oh you name it and it was there before me and God.
It had gotten to the place where I was very dry, withered I would say. I could barely pray, I could not really read the Scriptures,yet I went on every Sunday preaching to people about hoe to live above these things. Yes I was a hypocrite, and I carried this guilt day by day. It affected how I interracted with my wife, and with everyone else. I was putting on a show basically, a show of learned behaviour that I learned from reading good books and listening to good sermons, yet I was miserable.
Today, oh about 10 minutes ago, I know for certain that I received Christ and His Spirit. My heart is clean, and I have been crucified with Him. It is more than a feeling, it is like a deep truth in me, I know that I am in the vine now!!!!
All this is to say that we cannot toy with sin, and walk with God when He is so willing and ablee to cleanse us. Oh let us labour to enter into His rest.
Hallelujah!!!!

H
habakkuk3 May 19, 2006

Amen, I'm glad to hear that you have prayed through to victory as the old-timers would phrase it. It's a work of the Spirit and I praise for what He has done in your life.

I've been blessed this week by a wonderful website entitled [url=http://www.enterhisrest.org/]enter His rest[/url]. I was also blessed by something else I saw authored by the Wesley brothers (I'm not sure if it's a hymn or not) from [url=www.authenicchristianity.net]Authenic Christianity[/url].

My heart is at the point of crisis as to entering this rest as penned by Brother Seymour from Azuza Street but I trust that Jesus is going to do this work in my heart as well. I pray that the Holy Spirit will quicken these words by John and Charles Wesley. Blessings to you brother.

Part One

Lord, I believe a rest remains
To all Thy people known;
A rest where pure enjoyment reigns,
And Thou art loved alone.

A rest where all our soul's desire
Is fixed on things above,
Where doubt, and pain, and fear expire,
Cast out by perfect love.

A rest of lasting joy and peace,
Where all is calm within:
'Tis then from our own works we cease,
From pride, self-will, and sin.

Our life is hid with Christ in God;
The agony is o'er,
We wrestle not with flesh and blood,
We strive with sin no more.

From every evil motion freed
(The Son hath made us free),
On all the powers of hell we tread
In glorious liberty.

Safe in the way of life, above
Death, earth, and hell we rise;
We find, when perfected in love,
Our long-sought paradise.

Within that Eden we retire,
We rest in Jesu's name:
It guards us, as a wall of fire,
And as a sword of flame.

O that I now the rest might know,
Believe, and enter in!
Now, Saviour, now the power bestow,
And let me cease from sin!

Remove this hardness from my heart,
This unbelief remove;
To me the rest of faith impart,
The Sabbath of Thy love.

Part Two
I groan from pride to be set free,
From wrath to be released:
Take me, O, take me into Thee,
My everlasting Rest.

I would be Thine, Thou knowest I would,
And have Thee all my own;
Thee, O my all-sufficient Good,
I want, and Thee alone.

Thy Name to me, Thy Nature grant;
This, only this be given:
Nothing beside my God I want,
Nothing in earth or heaven.

Come, O my Saviour, come away!
Into my heart descend;
No longer from Thy creature stay,
My Author and my End.

The bliss Thou hast for me prepared
No longer be delayed;
Come, my exceeding great reward,
For Whom I first was made.

Come, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost,
And seal me Thine abode!
Let all I am in Thee be lost;
Let all be lost in God.

R
roaringlamb May 19, 2006

Oh brother do push on. Do not despair, He will not forsake you in this. I do not even understand this right now, but like a child I am simply beleiving, and trusting Him to be my Life, and no longer I. Have you looked at

[url=http://www.howtolivevictorious.com]How To Live Victorious[/url]

I highly reccomend this site.
All in all, it just comes down to wanting Jesus to show you all the sin within, and let Him cleanse you. No more making excuses, or blaming others, but really getting down to business with the Holy Spirit.

sermonindex May 19, 2006

The Holiness Movement:

Holiness movement
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Holiness movement is composed of people who believe and propagate the belief that the "carnal nature" of man can be cleansed through faith and by the power of the Holy Spirit if one has had his sins forgiven through faith in Jesus. The benefits professed include "spiritual power" and an ability to maintain purity of heart (that is, thoughts and motives that are uncorrupted by sin). The doctrine is typically referred to in Holiness churches as "entire sanctification," though it is more widely known as "Christian perfection."

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What does God’s Word have to say about Christian perfection from sin? Is it possible to be totally sinless in thought and deed? Lets find out

God’s Word tells me that I will never be perfect until I see Him like He is, at the rapture:
1 John 3:2 “ Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
1 Cor. 13:9-12
9. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Isaiah 64 tells us about the righteousness that each of us as believers personally possess. God sees our own righteousness as filthy rags!
6.\tBut we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 7. And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

Matthew5:26-48 tells me that to even think of sinning is the same as committing the act in God’s eyes. We are all held accountable for thoughts as well as our deeds.

To sum this up, God’s Word tells me that:
1. As a believer I will personally continue to sin by thought and by deed. It also tells me that if I have a relationship with Christ, that when I sin, I am to repent, and confess my sin, and continue my walk with Him.
It also tells me if someone tells me that they have not sinned, that they make God out to be a liar, and God’s Word is not in them:

5. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

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That about sums it up. The Holiness group continue to deny that they sin. We all still have the blood of Adam in our veins, and until the rapture the Holiness that we have is imputed to us by Christ, it is "put on" us by Him when we believe in CHRIST as LORD.

When they asked God what they could do to "work" the "works" of God, Christ responded that the "works of God" amounted to "BELIEF" in Him.

28. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29. Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


Christ is the righteous one, Christ is the sanctified one. When we believe in Him, His righteouness and His sanctification is imputed to us. By our belief in Him, Adams inherited sin no longer stains us and we are no longer "in" Adam. We are now "in" Christ, and until the rapture, only have the down payment of the Holy Spirit in our Hearts. The big problem is that we still have flesh and blood in our veins, and the blood is that of Adam.

1st Cor. 15:50-53 tells us:
50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
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God bless,

Stever :-)

R
roaringlamb May 19, 2006

I don't understand what you are getting at?

R
Ruthiepoothie May 19, 2006

Thank you so much for your testimony roaring lamb! I am so encouraged. To him that overcomes..........Praise God! I have been a Christian about the same amount of time, and have experienced the same.
Thank you for posting the poem habakkuk 3 you have no idea how much it blessed me today.

Remaining in His Faithful Grip,
(edited the part about the word rapture not being in the bible out. You're right! another topic)

T
Tears_of_joy May 19, 2006

roaringlamb, thank you for sharing your heart!
It was blessing to me!
God bless you.
Kire

S
Scroggins May 19, 2006

Amen though Bro. Stever.

Rapture is another topic... that could fill an entire forum on its own I believe.

Also, I think it not wise to discuss "sinless perfection." It only causes division.

R
roaringlamb May 19, 2006

I hope you all realize that I am not talking "sinless perfection", but simply a clean heart and conscience before God. Basically Romans 8 in its fullness. I am not seeking to bring division at all, but hope to the hopeless who feel they can never be free from sin. As Brother Ravenhill would say, "a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument."
I can only testify that Christ has cleansed me, and set me free!!! Make of it what you will, just don't make it a point of argument.
To you for Him,
Patrick

M
myfirstLove May 20, 2006

AMEN, roaringlamb!

we share the same testimony! i went thru the same exact things you went thru. praise God for this freedom! Lord Jesus thankyou for setting us free and making away for us to draw close to You!

R
roaringlamb May 20, 2006

we share the same testimony! i went thru the same exact things you went thru.

Oh there were as John of the cross aptly called them "dark nights of the soul", yet I have come through. Praise our God for He is able to save to the uttermost them that come to Him through Christ!
There was a time that I never thought this possible, and Christianity meant only to go on in the roller coaster of spirituality. Only know it seems that He has definately taken residence, and Lordship of my all!

C
Compton May 20, 2006

Oh there were as John of the cross aptly called them "dark nights of the soul", yet I have come through.

Roaringlamb, how interesting that you would mention "Dark Night of the Soul." Tonight I had just read from that very book... I came across these words that fit so perfectly with your wonderful testimony.

"Oh, how happy a chance is this for the soul which can free itself from the house of its sensuality! None can understand it, unless, as it seems to me, it be the soul that has experienced it. For such a soul will see clearly how wretched was the servitude in which it lay and to how many miseries it was subject when it was at the mercy of its faculties and desires, and will know how the life of the spirit is true liberty and wealth, bringing with it inestimable blessings."

Often this discussion can become focused on the "removal" of sin with the emphasis on being sinless...but I think writers like John of the Cross would remind us that a pure heart is not achieved when the heart is devoid of sin but when the heart is filled with the love of God.

Sensuality's self love can not be dislodged and forced out leaving the heart like a sanitized vacuum sealed tight with human will power; carnality's pollutants can only be displaced with a greater overflowing and abundant volume of God's Spirit!

So seeking sinlessness will achieve nothing but an empty house that is spacious and inviting for sin to re-enter. I think what we are talking about is nothing less then our soul's continued abiding fellowship with God. It is our union, our communion, with God that drives out the darkness. So often I talk in terms of removing the old and wretched when what I really need is a flowing and constant filling of the new and pure.

"I need Thee every hour, in joy or pain;
Come quickly and abide, or life is in vain."

Amen!

MC

sermonindex May 20, 2006

Patrick said

All in all, it just comes down to wanting Jesus to show you all the sin within, and let Him cleanse you. No more making excuses, or blaming others, but really getting down to business with the Holy Spirit
I think this is a place of bravery which many of us procrastinate to embrace, yet, once pushed towards the final step (which turns out to be the first of many final steps), we find ourselves in God's presence, with a reality which cannot be disputed - as you said - by the person who experiences it. Praise God. He is SO real and SO willing to meet us....... where we are. Glory to His NAME!

R
roaringlamb May 20, 2006

It is glorious!! But do not think that the flesh, and the very enemy of God will not try to coerce us into avoiding this very stripping and filling.
Compton, I would have to agree with you about the filling of the love of God. For is not holiness simply Christ living through us? Is that not 1 Corinthians 13, or the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5?
It is not so much that I am sinless, as that I am full of God.
Truly the sin that self loved, or had no power not to commit has been made horrific in the sight of Him, and His love.
Let us not get hung up on terms, let us simply look unto Jesus, and believe there is a "highway of holiness", but it comes at a price. :-D

S
Scroggins May 20, 2006

Bro. Patrick your testimony is great. Praise GOD.

Amen. Lets not get caught up on terms. I did not mean to imply that we were talking about "sinless perfection" here, as I dont believe in the pursuit of it.

Therefore we should focus on the giver of all gifts rather than the gifts themselves. And get on that "highway of holiness" as you say.

Praise our Holy and Loving GOD! Let us bask in HIS Glory!

C
Compton May 20, 2006

Great conversation.

Let us not get hung up on terms

In the case of our most common and vital terms, maybe a little hang up now and then is profitable to the body. ;-) Sometimes, what is deeply and profoundly meaningful to some, remains mere pious platitude to others.

For instance, what do we mean experiencially with the oft used phrase "Christ living through us? It may be that we each have various pieces of this most practical mystery that could benifit one another.

MC

M
myfirstLove May 20, 2006

Psalm 18:23-25 (New King James Version)

23 I was also blameless before Him,
And I kept myself from my iniquity.
24 Therefore the LORD has recompensed me according to my righteousness,
According to the cleanness of my hands in His sight.

25 With the merciful You will show Yourself merciful;
With a blameless man You will show Yourself blameless;


Psalm 24:3-5


3 Who may ascend into the hill of the LORD?
Or who may stand in His holy place?
4 He who has clean hands and a pure heart,
Who has not lifted up his soul to an idol,
Nor sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive blessing from the LORD,
And righteousness from the God of his salvation.

Psalm 66:18

18 If I regard iniquity in my heart,
The Lord will not hear.


these verses shows that it is possible to have a sinless heart before God, not saying that you will never sin again after that. you will always have that possibility, especially when you are not abiding in the Lord. but when a person who understands and lives rom. 6 does sin, that person will quickly confess and get right with God that his heart may not harden and become blind to that one sin causing more sins to follow if correction from the Lord gets unheeded. for sure, one who is a disciple of Christ has no habitual (practices) sins.

read 2 peter1:1-11
God has given us His divine power (grace)to live in godliness and escape the coruption of this world thru lust thru the knowledge of him (knowing Him). peter says if these things abound in you (His fruit)you will neither be barren or unfruitful in the knowledge of Him. peter says if you do these things (obedience)you will NEVER STUMBLE, but those who lack those things (diligence, virtue, self control,brotherly kindness, FAITH) WILL BE SHORTSIGHTED, EVEN TO BLINDNESS AND HAS FORGOTTEN HE WAS CLEANED FROM HIS OLD SINS.

Jesus says that He came to save us FROM sin.
Matthew 1:21

21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins.”


yes, we are of flesh and flesh sin, but thank God for His Holy Spirit who is here to HELP us to be pleasing before God.

gal. 5:16
walk in the Spirit and you SHALL NOT FULFILL THE LUST OF THE FLESH.

what does that mean? if you walk in Him you will not sin. so if you sin its because you are NOT walking in the Spirit, but flesh.

surely this is focusing on the Giver. without focusing on Him first and loving Him we cannot even walk in the Spirit.

for we should desire to walk in Him daily that we may truly glorify Him. it is when you walk with a pure heart and clean hands that you really glorify the Father. if we want to give Him the glory and not ourselves then we must walk with a pure heart, free from habitual sins. what hope is it to the world if they see christians struggling with the same sins? how does that glorify God?

sermonindex May 21, 2006

Is'nt it wonderful to know that our Saviour is ALL powerfull, ALL knowing, and in complete control of everything in heaven and on earth and everything we go through is for a reason? This is where I draw my peace from even in the mist of a storm.

He'll never leave us or forsake us no matter what the demons of hell might try and tell us. Satan is on a leash. He's defeated. Jesus has won the battle. Satan is a created being. He's not the opposite of God. He's created by God. We have victory through Christ if we will claim it.

M
myfirstLove May 21, 2006

2 Timothy 2:12-14

12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
HE ALSO WILL DENY US.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself. (NOTE: paul is encouraging timothy to remind the church of this saying)

we must continue to pray and watch as Jesus says. for the devil roars about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. this is a warning to the church from paul. God allows us to go thru certain things, but many of us go thru many things that God did not choose for us, but we CHOSE IT, but thank God for His discipline if we take heed to His rod of correction (heb. 12:5-11).

brothers and sisters as john ends his letter to the church in 1 john, KEEP YOURSELVES FROM IDOLS

let us endure that we may reign with Him (2 tim 2:12)

peace and grace will multiply as we seek to KNOW HIM(2 peter 1-11)

may our one desire is for God to be glorified!
lisa

P
pullpit Jun 3, 2006

hi we can not say holy life is not possible that what the enemy wants us to thank it is through the blood of christ :-)


roaringlamb wrote:
It is glorious!! But do not think that the flesh, and the very enemy of God will not try to coerce us into avoiding this very stripping and filling.
Compton, I would have to agree with you about the filling of the love of God. For is not holiness simply Christ living through us? Is that not 1 Corinthians 13, or the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5?
It is not so much that I am sinless, as that I am full of God.
Truly the sin that self loved, or had no power not to commit has been made horrific in the sight of Him, and His love.
Let us not get hung up on terms, let us simply look unto Jesus, and believe there is a "highway of holiness", but it comes at a price. :-D

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