Condoms...Birthcontroll...sin or not?

Lust is the desire for something you're not supposed to have. You're supposed to have your wife, therefore it isnt lust to want to have sex with her. Thats part of your confusion.

Birth control is ok so long as it isnt a pill that causes abortion... which many (if not all) birth control pills do. I see nothing wrong with condoms. There is nothing wrong with a guy getting fixed. I did.

Make love to your wife 30 times a day if you want to... God has sanctioned it and called it HOLY, and to call it sin is to blaspheme God.

Scripture commands husband and wife to have sex OFTEN, and to only refrain from it for a season of prayer and fasting (and it's not necessary in those cases either) and then to come together again SOON so that you are not tempted to sin with you mind or body with someone else.

People who think marital sex is sin have some deep rooted hang ups, and certainly dont know the Bible. I wouldnt listen to anything they have to say on that matter, or any other Biblical matter.

Krispy

philologos said

it is never wrong to be in bed with your spouse

Hebrews 13:4
Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

I know this doesn't answer your question about birth control, but it might make you feel comfortable about one aspect of your question.

You can have pleasure with your wife without having more children and without using birth control and condoms.

Your wife knows her own body, and she knows when she is fertile. But there are days when she is not, and those are the days that you should plan your enjoyment with one another.

I am not going to get into the ends and outs with this, you need to find these things out for yourselves, as each woman is different.

Search it out.

Karl

Logic, I can certainly understand where you're coming from. Let me say this without offending: someone in your situation has a different perspective than someone in my situation. My wife is VERY fertile. We have four boys, 3 planned, 1 surprise. But had we not availed ourselves of some sort of birth control she would have had a baby every 10 or 11 months for the past 17 years. Sorry... thats too many for us. We have friends who have many children. One family is Catholic and believe as you do, and she has had 6 kids, is pregnant for number 7, and has had 5 miscrriages. God bless 'em! But they struggle greatly financially. Another family we know has 12 kids, and the father just died recently at the age of 45 and so here is a single mom with 12 kids.

In ancient times the economy was mainly agricultural. Even up until the 20th century this was true. It's a lot easier to have that many kids AND support them when you are a farmer. This is not to say that God cant provide for a large family if you're not a farmer, but simply put... the world has changed. Every family I know that has many children struggle financially, and most come in under the poverty level. Money isnt everything, but when a family has to depend on the government to provide the basic necessities, well... God hasnt called us to THAT either.

We have four boys, and I believe my quiver is full. I had the "snip-snip" done last July. We prayed about it, and decided that this was God's leading FOR US. May not be God's leading for everyone. God may lead some people to have 12 or 15 kids. Thats not for me to judge.

The biggest thing about this issue is that we not judge one another about it. I know you're not judging anyone here, I'm cool with that. But I've seen it in some believers. Fact is, scripture is not entirely clear about this. So following NT presidence, we need to seek God in all grey areas, and be fully convinced in our hearts about the things we believe God is telling us that we should do. And not worry about what others are doing in these matters.

In the Bible it was a shame for a woman not to be able to bear children. In that culture people honestly believed that a woman was curse by God if she could not conceive. We certainly dont believe that now, do we? No.

And we're kidding ourselves if we really think that people in Biblical times just let it all hang out and just had no control over when they conceived. They knew about cycles and all that. The Mosaic Law even addresses the issue of a woman's period in many places. So I have to believe that they exercised some restraint when it came to pregnancy... and not ONE time in the Bible is anyone ever under the judgement of God for doing so. Not once.

Someone is bound to bring up Onan... but Onan's sin was NOT stopping a pregnancy from occurring, it was the sins of disobedience of the Law and deception. If we're going to tell people they shouldnt use some restraint in child bearing, then we must also say that when my brother dies I need to marry his wife and have children with her. Sorry... I love my sisters-in-law... but I aint marrying any of them! LOL

Krispy

Your wife knows her own body, and she knows when she is fertile. [b]But there are days when she is not[/b], and those are the days that you should plan your enjoyment with one another.

It is also true that women have fallen pregnant on every single day of their menstrual cycle.

I suspect that the risk of this is enhanced by abstinence, as there are always several eggs at different stages of readiness.

Un-identical twins can be conceived when two, rather than one egg, is released in the same month - and not necessarily on the same day.

I think it's important to be able to receive any more children, as from the Lord. You don't know what lies ahead, but you can trust His care.

I know some people (preacher and family) who have been 'living by faith' for over 40 years. They have had times when there was no food for them and their three boys (now all adult, of course), but never for longer than 3 days.

Also, if they are given gifts of the same thing, by different people (say, at Christmas), they keep them (all), believing them to be from the Lord, and they don't pass them on unless they believe the Lord wants them to.

I'm not suggesting you try to live by faith for your material provisions, unless the Lord [i]calls[/i] you to it, but I believe if you continue to look to Him in all things, prayerfully, and with Bible study, you cannot BUT grow, and you will find Him faithful, as you are.