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Theology

Resurrections and Bema Judgments for Reward

sermonindex May 25, 2006

I have just finished a personal Bible study on the resurrection, and the Bema judgments for Christians:


Christ is the firstfruits of the Resurrection.
1 Cor 15:20-23
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

We (believers) are the firstfruits of the Spirit, that will receive our new resurrected bodies when he comes to get us at the rapture, as described above, and we will be like Him! The rapture takes place before the Tribulation and the “Day of the Lord”.

Romans 8:23-25
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

When we receive our new resurrected bodies, we will be like Him!

James 1:18
18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures


This is another description of the Rapture and the receipt of our new resurrected bodies:

1 Cor 15:52-57
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is another description of the Rapture.
1 Thes 4:13-17
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


This passage describes what will happen when Christ comes back to redeem us to Himself. We will be perfect like Him in all ways!
1 Cor. 13:9-12
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

1 John 3:2
2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear (at the Rapture), we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure/
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Next, we find a description of the Lord'S SECOND COMING-- coming back to the earth [b][color=0033FF]WITH HIS SAINTS (that would be the resurrected Church, described above, from the RAPTURE). [/color][/b]. This clarifies for us that there is more than one resurrection (Firstfruits of the Resurrection). First, the rapture and resurrection, that occurs before anit-christ is revealed, described above, and then another resurrection of the souls of those that have become believers during the Tribulation, that have been be-headed by the antichrist, AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION:

Zechariah 14
1. Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3. Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: [b][color=0033FF]and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.[/color][/b]
6.And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7.But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9. And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
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This describes the rapture of the people that were not saved before the Tribulation (Jews and Gentiles), that went through the Great Tribulation and became believers in Christ (saved) and were beheaded during the tribulation. At the end of the Tribulation Christ throws Satan into the bottomless pit for 1,000 years and judges the beheaded believers (described above). This is a judgment of rewards, not punishment. The judgment of punishment is the Great White Throne Judgment mentioned in Rev. 20:11 and is for all non-believers.
Rev 20:1-6
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.] This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

God bless,

Stever :-)

H
hmmhmm May 25, 2006

I love reading studies like this.. i get excited!!!

I pray that he will come soon.
i pray for a worldwide revival
i pray for a awakening...
i pray for you to send workers for the harvest.
send me lord, send me lord
revive me first so i can revive my next man.
let your spirit lead me.
come soon my lord and god
in my lord jesus name
amen

gods peace to you
christian

C
Christinyou May 26, 2006

Wonderful Post.

I would like to use it if I may, in bible study. Truth, Truth, Truth.

In Christ: Phillip

sermonindex May 26, 2006


Christinyou wrote:
Wonderful Post.

I would like to use it if I may, in bible study. Truth, Truth, Truth.

In Christ: Phillip

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever responds:

Please feel free to share it with anyone.

God bless,

Stever :-)

I
IRONMAN May 26, 2006

bro Stever
if i may ask, you posted this scripture:

1 Cor 15:52-57
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

it seems to me that this last trump, is the last one after the tribulation. i think when we meet with Him in the air it will be as He returns to earth to rule for a thousand years. i've oft wondered about the rapture and have sought the Lord on it and i'm convinced it will not happen like most people think where every believer is taken away. This will contribute to the falling away which muct happen and this is what i hear from heaven. For all the sermons i've heard and explanations about the rapture it doesn't sit well with me in my spirit this idea that we'll all be taken away.

it seems to me that not all the saints will be raptured at the same time. there will be some who will be called to remain to tend to those who are left behind and are at a loss as to why they had to stay. The Church as she is, is in no shape to be Christ's bride. We are in need of cleansing and purification, part of which is the separation of the true believers from those who purport to be believers. This will come via hardship and persecution, those sold out to God will endure by His grace and those who aren't will fall away. People keep saying that Christ can return at any time and this is false because Christ will return for a Church without spot, wrinkle or any such thing so we have to go through a fire first.

Those saints who are left behind and who are saved during the tribulation will need some people to minister to them so there will be some who have to stay during the tribulation. now at this point you may say "we're not appointed to the Lord's wrath" and we're not, so the Lord will give us grace enough to endure whatever comes our way. As the Lord has shown me concerning His grace for His children, even if we remain throughout the tribulation, His grace is sufficient. we may experience the enemy's wrath which is of no comparison to the Lord's, but the Lord will see us through.

Then during the thousand years, the ones who were beheaded for Christ will rule with Him and this first set of resurrected people will not have to worry about the lake of fire which is the second death, for it has no power over them. the ones who rise after the thousand years when satan is loosed may yet fall during this time.

well i guess we should be prepared to endure the whole tribulation lest we find ourselves here during it and fall away. i'm convinced of the Lord that there will be many who find themselves here when they think they should have been in heaven...however being here in that time one will experience the provision of the Lord unlike any other time and come to know God and trust God for everything unlike any other. Also God will glorify Himself in these ones in a way unlike any other for these days are unlike any before and after.

in the Lord dealing with me, He's made plain that i'll be here, trust me at the time He showed me this, i was not going for it. then i realized, or should i say He showed me something crucial i'd missed, if i'm to be here to work for the Lord untill the final act of martyrdom which the Lord has prepared for me, the Lord is not expecting this work to be done on my strength and wit coz that's not going to cut it. He instead will see His work done by His Holy Spirit working in me and through me and whoever else will be here in those days. That revelation made me look forward to it all because it is God Himself who will see this through and that takes a load off...

praise God He will see His work to completion.

p.s. if the Lord leads check out the study on the revelation by watchman nee

http://ministrybooks.com/books.cfm?id=%23%29UWW%0A

C
Christinyou May 26, 2006

The last trump is the last trump for The Body of Christ His Church, there are still more trumps to come. Each Last trump will herald parts of the sequence in Gods Plan. How many times have we heard the trump in the Word.

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Who are these? The dead in Christ and the alive in Christ. Who is the trump for? The Church the Body of Christ. It is the last trump for the Church for we will no longer be hear and shall ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:17-18 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

No more trumps needed for the Body of Christ the Church, but there will be more trumps.

Hbr 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which [voice] they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Zec 9:14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


In Christ: Phillip

I
IRONMAN May 26, 2006

bro Philip

The last trump is the last trump for The Body of Christ His Church, there are still more trumps to come. Each Last trump will herald parts of the sequence in Gods Plan. How many times have we heard the trump in the Word.

ooohhhh i see. thanks

sermonindex May 27, 2006

Ironman posted:
"it seems to me that this last trump, is the last one after the tribulation. i think when we meet with Him in the air it will be as He returns to earth to rule for a thousand years. i've oft wondered about the rapture and have sought the Lord on it and i'm convinced it will not happen like most people think where every believer is taken away. This will contribute to the falling away which muct happen and this is what i hear from heaven. For all the sermons i've heard and explanations about the rapture it doesn't sit well with me in my spirit this idea that we'll all be taken away."

Stever's response:

Imagine yourself in the Church, at Corinth, and Paul is preaching the resurrection prophecy that he received directly from Christ when he went up to heaven.

He mentions the "last trump". I am sitting in the audience right next to you, and I say-- I know! It is the last trump mentioned in the Book of Revelation!!

We have a major problem here.

#1 Paul was preaching this as revelation knowledge to the Church at Corinth. The members of the body would have to know exactly what it meant.

#2 The Book of Revelation would not be written for another 40-60 years.

So, we can see from the above that the "last trump" referred to in Corinth that day had nothing to do with the "last trump" referred to in the book of Revelation, many years later. One refers to before the Tribulation, and one refers to the end of the Tribulation.

God bless,

Stever :-)

sermonindex May 27, 2006

Ironman posted:

it seems to me that not all the saints will be raptured at the same time. there will be some who will be called to remain to tend to those who are left behind and are at a loss as to why they had to stay. The Church as she is, is in no shape to be Christ's bride. We are in need of cleansing and purification, part of which is the separation of the true believers from those who purport to be believers. This will come via hardship and persecution, those sold out to God will endure by His grace and those who aren't will fall away. People keep saying that Christ can return at any time and this is false because Christ will return for a Church without spot, wrinkle or any such thing so we have to go through a fire first.

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Stever’s response:

All believers today are without spot, wrinkle or any such thing. How can that be? Because of our belief in Jesus Christ. His righteousness is imputed to us. We are saved by what He did, not what we do.

As far as believers going through the Tribulation, I don’t think so. The Tribulation is described as the WRATH TO COME. Actually wrath has two meanings- the Great Tribulation and Hell. God’s word tells us that all Christian believers are already delivered from the wrath to come. Notice, it is in the past tense. Just like when we pray, at the end of the prayer we are to thank the Father for answering our prayer, eventhough we are waiting for Him to do so when He wills.

[1 Thes 1:10]
10. And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.


God bless,

Stever :-)

sermonindex May 27, 2006

The last trump is the last trump for The Body of Christ His Church, there are still more trumps to come. Each Last trump will herald parts of the sequence in Gods Plan.
Hi Phillip,

I think you're right about the [i]sequence[/i] in God's plan, but, it is not possible for there to be [i][b]more than one[/b][/i] LAST trump..... - in the same way it's not possible for more than one person to be first in a competition. Last means last. No-one can come after the last person, either..... Same applies to trumps, I believe.

C
Christinyou May 27, 2006

Different events different players. First in Christ, First in the kingdom on this earth for 1000. Different last trumps. Just like animal sacrifice the first one, and last one. Christ sacrifice, the only one. I won't belabor the Last Trump. It is just my understanding of the two different events. The Last, 2078. eschatos
Search for G2078 in KJVSL
escatwV eschatos es'-khat-os

a superlative probably from 2192 (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time):--ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost. From the prime root of (used in various applications)

The Last trump for the dispensation of Grace through faith by Christ in the believer. A new creation race of People, God's own son's.

In Christ: Phillip

sermonindex May 27, 2006

The Last Trump

"We cannot go to the Book of Revelation and say that the voice of the seventh angel (Revelation 11:15) is the last trump. In the first century, the last trump (shofar) meant a specific day in the year. In Judaism, there are three trumpets (shofarim) that have a name. They are the first trump, the last trump, and the great trump. Each one of these trumpets indicates a specific day in the Jewish year. The first trump is blown on the Feast of Shavuot (Pentecost) (Exodus [Shemot] 19:19). It proclaimed that God had betrothed Himself to Israel. The last trump is synonymous with Rosh HaShanah, according to Theodore Gaster in his book, Festivals of the Jewish Year, in his chapter on Rosh HaShanah. Herman Kieval also states the same thing in his book, The High Holy Days (Volume I, Rosh HaShanah, Chapter 5, Footnote 11), in the chapter on the shofar. The great trumpet is blown on Yom Kippur, which will herald the return of the Messiah Yeshua back to earth (Matthew [Mattityahu] 24:31)."
(Hebraic Heritage Ministries, http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2175/)

(Lev 23:24 KJV) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

(Num 29:1 KJV) And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.

According to Num 10:10, Israel was to blow a trumpet at the beginning of each month. Since the Mosaic festival year was seven months long, the seventh month (Tishri) was the last month for a festival trumpet. This day, the first day of Tishri, which was the start of the Jewish civil year, was known as Rosh haShanah (the Feast of Trumpets or the Day of Trumpets). "The last month in the seven months' series was always sounded on this New Moon Day. This made it the final trumpets' day." (Ernest L. Martin, The Star that Astonished the World, (c)1996, pg 95)

Martin further signifies this day by relying on the work of Theodor Gaster and his book titled "Festivals of the Jewish Year." It is stated that early Jews recognized the Day of Trumpets as a type of memorial day. More than our modern versions of the holiday, it was instead a day that was symbolic of the time "when the dead return to rejoin their descendants at the beginning of the year." Martin also quotes Gaster in saying that this was "the time that became a symbol of the Last Trump." (Martin, pg 96)

(1 Cor 15:52 KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

(1 Th 4:16 KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Paul, being Jewish himself had specific knowledge of the Jewish feasts and customs, and was making a specific reference to a specific time of year -- the Day of Trumpets.

"The 'Last Trump' of the early Jews was when the dead were remembered. And to Paul the 'Last Trump' was the time for Jesus' second advent and the resurrection of the dead."

In the Book of Numbers we find specific reference to what the trumpets (trump’s) were used for:

In Numbers we find reference to the Jewish Trumpets and how they were used. They were specifically used to call all of the Israelites together to the assembly (they were an assembly of believers in the Messiah to come, we are an assembly of belivers in the Messiah that came) at the TABERNACLE (where they came to MEET WITH AND WORSHIP THE LORD). When only one Trumpet (trump) was heard at this time, the PRINCES, which were the heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves together unto thee.

Numbers 10

1. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2. Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps.
3. And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
[b][color=0033FF]4. And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee.[/color][/b]

It is the last trump that all of us, as believers will hear, BEFORE we are raptured to be with the LORD forever.

[u][b][color=0033FF]The word last is a relative term for those that hear it, and is surely not the last trumpet that will ever be blown. Even in the book of Revelation, the last trump indicated there will not be the last trump. How do we know that? Because during the 1,000 year reign, trumpets will sound again and sacrifices will begin anew.[/color][/b][/u]

Zechariah 14:16-21 gives us a snapshot picture of what will take place at this time:

“16. And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20. In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
[u][b][color=0033FF] 21. Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.[/color][/b][/u]

God bless,

Stever :-)

C
Christinyou May 28, 2006

Co 15:52
In a moment - Εν ατομω In an atom; that is, an indivisible point of time. In the twinkling of an eye; as soon as a man can wink; which expressions show that this mighty work is to be done by the almighty power of God, as he does all his works, He calls, and it is done. The resurrection of all the dead in Christ, from the foundation of the world to that time, and the change of all the living then upon earth that are in Christ, shall be the work of a single moment.

At the last trump - This, as well as all the rest of the peculiar phraseology of this chapter, is merely Jewish, and we must go to the Jewish writers to know what is intended. On this subject, the rabbins use the very same expression. Thus Rabbi Akiba: "How shall the holy blessed God raise the dead? We are taught that God has a trumpet a thousand ells long, according to the ell of God: this trumpet he shall blow, so that the sound of it shall extend from one extremity of the earth to the other. At the first blast the earth shall be shaken; at the second, the dust shall be separated; at the third, the bones shall be gathered together; at the fourth, the members shall wax warm; at the fifth, the heads shall be covered with skin; at the sixth, the souls shall be rejoined to their bodies; at the seventh, all shall revive and stand clothed." and no one else will hear it, but those in Christ. (1 Th 4:16 KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: This tradition shows us what we are to understand by the last trump of the apostle; it is the seventh of Rab. Akiba, when the dead in Christ shall be all raised, and those that are alive and in Christ shall be changed and, being clothed upon with their eternal vehicles, bodies like His, they shall be ready to appear before the judgment seat of Christ, for rewards or lack thereof and so shall we all be with the Lord, but not judgment unto damnation. The seventh Angle's trump. Another last trump for a different people. The Great White Throne Judgement.

In Christ: Phillip

I
IRONMAN May 31, 2006

bro Stever
you wrote

All believers today are without spot, wrinkle or any such thing. How can that be? Because of our belief in Jesus Christ. His righteousness is imputed to us. We are saved by what He did, not what we do.

you indeed have a point here, however there aren't as many believers as it appears because most are simply Christians in a shallow outwardly way rather than Christian in Spirit and Truth. in that regard not many or at least not as many people will be raptured in light of this. also our Lord has shown me something more. there were a handful of people at pentecost through which our Lord turned the world upside down. There is not very much evidence of people living for Christ or the world being shown the glory of a loving God.

we are savd by what He did but that salvation must be evident in what we do also and we're not doing much. it can't be that Christ died on the cross and then we accept this truth and sit on our butts thereafter and continue on as before. the truth is many who profess Christ are unchanged so they are in the worst place of all, thinking they are saved but yet they're not. this is because of the poor way in which salvation is presented and Christianity as a whole.

indeed true believers are delivered from the wrath to come, we will not experience God's wrath poured out on the world, but the enemy will swing back and we'll catch his wrath. the point is the Lord is showing me that a LOT of people are going to find themselves here after the rapture during those days simply because they haven't believed correctly so as to conduct themselves as they should before God. at this point the Faithful will endure suffering brought by the enemy and those who are not sold out will simply jump ship. The thing the Lord is trying to get across is that if we find ourselves here working for Him in those tribulation days, and there will be some who have to stay because quite a number will be plucked from the fires of tribulation and will need to be ministered to, is that His grace is sufficient for us in any circumstance.

perhaps it will be a handful of believers who stay and tend to the ones who come to Christ during those days, all i know is i'm called of God to be here and will be here. i know i won't be alone but the thing which gives me comfort is that God's grace is sufficient for this. i'm not sure where you'll be, if you're up there, cheer a brother on!!!

sermonindex Jun 3, 2006

Ironman posted:

indeed true believers are delivered from the wrath to come, we will not experience God's wrath poured out on the world, but the enemy will swing back and we'll catch his wrath. the point is the Lord is showing me that a LOT of people are going to find themselves here after the rapture during those days simply because they haven't believed correctly so as to conduct themselves as they should before God. at this point the Faithful will endure suffering brought by the enemy and those who are not sold out will simply jump ship.

“THE THING THE LORD IS TRYING TO GET ACROSS IS THAT IF WE FIND OURSELVES HERE WORKING FOR HIM IN THOSE TRIBULATION DAYS, AND THERE WILL BE SOME WHO HAVE TO STAY BECAUSE QUITE A NUMBER WILL BE PLUCKED FROM THE FIRES OF TRIBULATION AND WILL NEED TO BE MINISTERED TO, IS THAT HIS GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR US IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.

PERHAPS IT WILL BE A HANDFUL OF BELIEVERS WHO STAY AND TEND TO THE ONES WHO COME TO CHRIST DURING THOSE DAYS, ALL I KNOW IS I'M CALLED OF GOD TO BE HERE AND WILL BE HERE. I KNOW I WON'T BE ALONE BUT THE THING WHICH GIVES ME COMFORT IS THAT GOD'S GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR THIS. I'M NOT SURE WHERE YOU'LL BE, IF YOU'RE UP THERE, CHEER A BROTHER ON!!!”
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Stever responds:

Hello there, Ironman. You have posted this before, specifically your mention that some believers will not be raptured, but will be picked to stay and minister to the lost during the Tribulation.

Where in the Bible do you find this teaching?


God bless,

Stever :-)

I
IRONMAN Jun 3, 2006

bro stever
indeed there is no specific mention of there being specific believers here to tend to the lost, however, who will tend to the ones which shall be saved in those days? we know that a number will come to Christ during those days and they will obviously need instruction by way of Holy Spirit through men.

before we go any further though i think though that we are looking at the same thing from a different angle though, who do you see as being the believers who will be raptured? a majority or minority of those who say they are believers?

sermonindex Jun 3, 2006


IRONMAN wrote:
bro stever
indeed there is no specific mention of there being specific believers here to tend to the lost, however, who will tend to the ones which shall be saved in those days? we know that a number will come to Christ during those days and they will obviously need instruction by way of Holy Spirit through men.

before we go any further though i think though that we are looking at the same thing from a different angle though, who do you see as being the believers who will be raptured? a majority or minority of those who say they are believers?

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Stever responds to IRONMAN:

I am with you on the number who will be raptured. Only God knows the number, only God knows the heart. But, it will be far less than what you or I might think that it is.

I am still interested in your perscpective of why God needs believers to help out. The reason? Because millions of those that were in the pews with us the week of the rapture will be left behind. They know the Bible front to back, they just did not trust in Christ to save them. They will be the best witnesses of all.

We (all believers) will be in Heaven with Christ and have no interest in the hell and torment that goes on down here. The reason for the torment? To bring the lost to Christ. When they are finally down on their backs, they will finally look up.

Billions will come to belief during the Tribulation. They will also have the sealed 144,000 witnesses that will travel throughout the world, witnessing to the lost.

God bless,

Stever :-)

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