5 Points Against (Inappropriate Dressing) edit

I appreciate your zeal brother, and someday maybe the Lord will grant me the opportunity to minister along side you in a public forum.

I personally like to open up messages with question answer sessions. An example would be to ask what is the sin of Sodom? I might in this setting ask that question several times put several different ways. Then I'd answer that question from Eze. the sin of Sodom is (eze 16:49).... I would read it and allow for the Holy Spirit to work on thier minds and consciences, I would than ask questions with in questions, what is pride, what is fullness of bread, etc... and share scripture to answer each question. After I was done plowing the ground I would give them Jesus, a simple appeal of the mercy of God available to thoughs who would follow Him, maybe explain what that means, and believe the Lord to have signs and wonders following according to His word.

I found myself pointing the finger, as it were, in my early days on the streets and continuely had troubles that I brought upon myself. Than the Lord changed me and I started to preach sermons instead shouting one liners, I could take thoughs same sermons and present them in churches, now when trouble came my way I knew that it was purely for the Words sake that it came and I had peace and joy in the midst of all that mess, and it was latter that I would hear reports from others who were there how they observed the manifest joy of the Lord and how that affected them. Just treasures I keep close to my heart as I've started to take Jesus back to the streets in these last days, Pray ye' to the Lord of the Harvest.....

I think if you are going to preach on modesty, you should stay away from more legalistic definitions which you are going to have a hard time persuading our culture in. Instead, attack the spirit behind much of the immodest clothing.

And frankly, preaching against bikini's is not Biblical. If the prophet Isaiah, who was the father of at least 3 children, could roam around buck naked for a few years (Isaiah 20), then frankly you are going to have a hard time making such a case on Biblical grounds. Remember, past generations of Christians found it a sin to wear anything in public that didn't come down to your wrists and ankles. After all, such was showing too much flesh!

Frankly, I think there are some people, like my fiance, who have such a modest spirit about them that they could wear a 2 piece bikini to the beach and be in the perfect will of God in doing such. Though my fiance would never be caught dead in one doesn't change the fact that I believe she could. For even if she were, she would not be looking to reveal but to conceal just the same as if she were wearing a one piece.

Maybe I missed something but I don’t quite get the point of the sermon outline.

The message I think should be that to dress immodestly is unloving behaviour towards others.

Jesus said some interesting things about modesty:
Matthew 5: 28 I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 18: 7 How terrible it will be for anyone who causes others to sin. Temptation to do wrong is inevitable, but how terrible it will be for the person who does the tempting.

The last thing anyone should want to do is to tempt another person to sin. So the last thing a young lady should want to do is to tempt a young man to lust after her because of the way she is dressed, in her revealing clothes.

The rule of god's love is: love your neighbour as yourself.

When females dress immodestly, they break that rule, because they tempt men to lust.

Tempting people to sin is the height of evil. Therefore, women should dress modestly, and men should teach women the truth about male sexuality so that the women agree that they would never want to tempt a man to lust by the way they dress. Men need to teach women to dress modestly, and the men need to teach women WHY it is important for them to dress modeslty - that to dress immodestly is to dress without an attitude of love towards one's neighbour.

The last thing anyone should want to do is to tempt another person to sin.

God bless,

Brian

I started the open air preaching with my 5 Point Sermon Against Bikinis.

1. The Rear End……. [and other body parts]

I beg to challenge this view point. The body is made by God, and all its parts are a glorious wonder of his handiwork. To imply that a person’s body is evil is running on dangerous territory. Yet, I do not wish to dismiss the issue you bring forth: about the evils of bikinis (or any other kind of suggestive attire).

Perhaps one must consider WHY bikinis are worn in the first place. It is a trend, and people tend to follow trends. What woman wants to walk on the beach with a 1920’s bathing suit! (when she’s the only one) These days people, especially young adolescents can’t bear the thought of being a “reject” among their significant others – their peers. Their sense of worth is tied up in their body image. That’s just the way it is in our society. It’s sad, but true.

Now the Amish may have licked the problem with their old-fashioned dress code, but I highly suspect that their young ladies have discovered all kinds of creative ways to be suggestive to males.

In my youth, I didn’t crave boys, nor was my identity tied up in their view of me. Maybe it was because of my relationship with my father. While my peers were on the beach, I was in the hay fields with my dad. We worked together. I felt important to him. But it wasn’t my attire that he cared about. It was my willingness to spend a lot of time with him, helping with the farm work. I thought he was awesome.

Today, not many young ladies have a chance to get so close to their fathers. In fact, there are many absentee fathers. We may have an entire culture of father-deprived ladies who seek to have the emptiness filled in wrong ways.

Another consideration: From the age of two socialization is the prized goal. You have to fit in. Should we really be surprised when our youth and adults continue pursuing this goal? Even our churches follow after this belief: We must look attractive, be appealing…. Therefore, do we really have a right to speak against the pagan world? That would be a double standard.

"If you don't mind guys seeing those parts of your body then there is something wrong with you.

Suggestive exposure of flesh is common place. I just looked at a section of the newspaper, and it’s all over.

During the days of the witch-hunts, attractive young girls were considered witches and put to death. The real problem was the clergy who found them a temptation, and never wished to admit they had a bad “eye”. So they blamed the females.

It’s time to stop blaming females for what may be very much a male problem. It takes males to reinforce the problem.

SOLUTIONS:

A good solution would be for men to wear foggy glasses. Jesus suggested removing the eye altogether if it causes one to sin. (Note: the eye, not the object ex, female was the cause of sin) In other words, we are all to take responsibility for our own tendencies to fall into temptation

When our eyes are on him, and we are dead (blind) to the attractions of this world, we are free to love – not the lustful way, but the right way – Christ’s way.

This leads us to the question: How can we help our insecure, fearful fellow citizens find a sense of worth in something other than their body image? How can we help them know the love of the heavenly Father?

If we fail to do that, then we really can’t say much when they chose faulty means to satisfy their unmet needs – whether that be bikinis or other means.

Diane

if man or woman dress in a way that people look at that person in a lustful way, then that person is a tool of the devil , arent they?

I have read the Acts of the Apostles 10 times in the last month and I just don't see it.

We were at the park Sunday afternoon and one of the helpers was telling a man that he needed Jesus Christ or he was going to hell. She was doing her best to reach this young man and soon we all realized that the young man had almost no idea what she was talking about. He had never had any real experience with religion at all. He believed in a 'higher power' but that was it. He tried to commit suicide with a gun under his chin. The gun misfired. One of the guys asked him if he thought about God at that moment, he said, No. What did you think about? "I was speechless", he replied.

I am starting to feel like sometimes we try to push too hard with too much for the sake of time, when an explaination of what is being said, would be much more beneficial. Lowering the tone and allowing the Spirit to lead us to explain to the folks so that God can take those words and make it revelation to their mind and hearts. This takes 'time'. A heavy down-pour just runs off the hardened land. A bomb does speedily what a shovel could do more precisely if there were more 'time'.

I realized that folk need an explaination of what God's word says so that it is clear to them what He requires of them. Sound bite answers are limited in their effectiveness, because the people need a good understanding of what is being said. This takes some time. Maybe not hours, but it does take some time.

Look at Stephens messages in Acts. That message took like a whole chapter or more. It was concise, but it brought tremendous understanding. The people could not resist the wisdom. There is much more to this than just getting up with that message, but I think we can glean something from Stephens method.

God is constantly checking me on my delivery methods in teaching, preaching, and writing. I think this is as important as our content. It is what James calls the wisdom that comes down from above. I need to do this and God is leading me constantly to that end. I am not there, but I am trying to get there. It don't mean I'm not sincere or even hearing from the Lord or 'anointed' as its said. It is a constant refining towards a more Christ like delivery of God's words. God's word in God's way.

This is very true that it is easy to get a reaction, I could out on the street and offend people very easily and provoke them, this is not the true persection that the early church recieved, but rather recieved it under preaching the simple message of the cross, not naming sins in public and other scenario's of depraved lifes. I have read the Acts of the Apostles 10 times in the last month and I just don't see it.

In 1 Corinthians, the apostle Paul said it was the preaching of the cross that offended, not the super-colorful use of language to describe sins. One's ability to use adjectives never won anybody.

If I was at that lake with my friends I'd definately be dropping the don't worry not all Christians are like that line. Sorry.

Hello...

I heard someone once say, "[i]You don't have to teach sinners about tithing[/i]." Regardless of whether or not you believe in a concept of tithing, the point it quite clear -- we don't have to waste our time teaching precepts that will be rejected (or simply misunderstood) by unbelievers.

Please don't get me wrong -- I totally agree with the [i]Hell's Best Kept Secret[/i] message by Ray Comfort. Sinners need to be aware that they are sinners. But is a message on "the dangers of indecent clothing" necessary to people that are quite satified with such clothing? Besides, the greatest sin in this world is the fact that the people of Earth have forgotten their Creator. We were created to fellowship with God. Free will was given so that we could choose Him despite all of the lusts and desires of this world. Yet now, people are completely satisfied without Him -- even to the point of questioning His very existence.

There was a preacher that came to our campus a couple of years ago. He began preaching at a highly trafficked place on campus (between the Student Union Building w/cafeteria and the library). Huge crowds gathered to listen. Unfortunately, the opportunity was (in my opinion) squandered. This man publicly called many of the young women in the crowd very offensive names (vulgar synonyms of 'prostitutes'). When he saw men with hair that he felt was in need of a trim, or he saw men wearing earrings, he labeled them as being the same as "homosexuals" and "sodomites." Sadly, he even publicly slurred some believers for such "sins" as wearing sunglasses or baseball caps. He constantly preached for several days against the evils of freemasonry, communism, roman catholicism, birth control pills, "modern" dress, as well as a few specific vulgar topics that I don't feel that I should type.

Occasionally, this man did say some very good things. But they were constantly mingled with his attempts to publicly offend the listeners. For instance, he shared his testimony (which was wonderful). But then, he would turn around and publicly mock sinners, half-hearted believers and true believers alike. He condemned me as a "heretic" for owning an NIV translation of the Bible. He condemned a friend for being a member of the University baseball team (on scholarship). Why did he do this? Perhaps he wanted to use this as a "gimmick" that would attract passerbys. Perhaps he did this for the "martyr" effect (he was openly ridiculed, mocked and threatened with arrest). Or perhaps he felt that what he was saying was needed in a public forum.

As a result of some things he said, this man was almost attacked by some of the listeners. He was asked to move about 25 yards to the designated "free speech" area (a much more visible location), but he refused. After being threatened with arrest by the University Police Department, he finally moved. He continued to preach for several days. Even though he condemned our Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship organization as a group of heretics (since he affiliated us with a belief in tongues), he thanked us in his newsletter for coming to his defense when he was threatened with arrest (and when an offended person threatened him with a brick). I asked him why he didn't ask for a permit or directions for the designated "free speech" areas on campus, and he said that he was simply another John Bunyan (refusing to cooperate with the desires of heathen governments).

I truly believe in street preaching. But sometimes, I call into question the methods of some street preachers. The opportunity to preach in a public arena is wonderful. But should we spend our time and words on doctrinal persuasion and offensive remarks? If a person wants to truly "offend," then why not simply preach the cross of Christ? It is completely offensive -- but it is also the power of God unto salvation!

May God raise up fellow preachers that are bold enough to preach to the highways and byways like brother Jesse. And may God fill each of them with the words to speak that will bring their listeners to Christ!

:-)

Another interesting subject....

I'll shoot straight here with you all...

My mother in-law said just the other day if you go to a beach or beach water park the women leave nothing to imagine!

She's right!! Most of the women are just plain naked! SODOM!!

I do like what Jesse said earlier that its just fancy underwear....I like what he said because I have preached it from my pulpit in church. We need to call it what it is!! Like Ravenhill said we use nicer words to cover it up...

The problem isnt with the sinners.... its with those who call themselves christian. Ravenhill said in his interview "you can't preach holiness these days, you cant preach modesty".

Now preaching to sinners on the street about bikinis is for me creating a bunch of "DONT'S". Get them saved and then disciple them! Teach them modesty.

"All is vanity" I wish preachers would preach it from the pulpits! We need to call it what it is!

There, I said my peace

;-) ;-)

I think the main point is that in street preaching we have to rember who we are preaching to. This is what I mean, Jesus had hard rebukes for the religious community of His time, The jews. Occassionally He happened across a gentile and there were several ways He handled those situations, rember though that those gentiles sought the Lord out. Paul on the other hand reasoned with the greeks as well as the unbelievers with persuasive arguements, much like a lawyer does in court cases before a jury. Jesus came to judge the world ....but how did He judge? He healed the lame, cast out demons, opened blind eyes, proclaimed the acceptable year of the Lord, presented the gospel. Probably had about 6 hours of prayer to one sermon, and than it was time to minister to the needs of the hearers. Don't become a carbon copy of Ray Comfort. And at all times learn to show your genuine love and concern for those you preach to, as if they were your very own children.