Rick Warren to Preach in Communist North Korea

sermonindex Jun 29, 2006

(brethern-a note, I know some of you regard Pastor Warren's ministry with disdain, but I must say that if he is allowed to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified to 15,000 North Koreans, this is huge. So I beg you, not to make this a thread detailing Mister Warrens shortcomings, but breathe prayers up to the Living God that 15,000 North Koreans be allowed to drink from the Living Water that Christ offers.)

By Sarah Price Brown
Religion News Service

LAKE FOREST, Calif., June 27 - Evangelical pastor Rick Warren has been invited to preach this summer to some 15,000 Christians in North Korea, a communist country infamous not only for its nuclear threats but also for its religious persecution.

Warren, author of the bestselling book, "The Purpose-Driven Life," said he would make the trip as part of a nearly 40-day journey to meet with the leaders of 13 foreign countries.

I want to ask you to pray for me," Warren told about 5,000 worshippers at his Saddleback Church on Sunday (June 25). He said he would be embarking on a "grueling" tour, meeting with presidents, business leaders and pastors in countries such as Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, Rwanda and South Korea, where he would preach at the world's largest church.

And then, he told the crowd, "I've received another invitation." Warren said North Korea would allow him to preach in a stadium seating 15,000, but that he could preach in a larger venue if he could fill the seats.

A collective gasp arose from the worshippers. Then, claps and cheers.

The sense of excitement spilled over into conversations after the service.

"God's using Rick Warren as a vessel for peace," said Sue Foley, a photographer for the church.

Alan Bennett, a self-employed worshipper from Orange County, said he was "shocked" to hear the news, but said it was "awesome. ... I was really taken aback that they would allow a Christian speaker, let alone an evangelist," to preach.

Since 2001, the State Department has designated North Korea a "country of particular concern" for religious freedom violations. Religious freedom essentially does not exist in the highly centralized state, where Kim Jong Il reigns as Supreme Being.

The communist regime prohibits citizens from belonging to unauthorized religious groups. And its authorized groups are largely propaganda, organized for the benefit of foreigners, according to a 2005 U.S. State Department report on International Religious Freedom.

Believers who proselytize or have ties to evangelical groups in China are arrested, tortured or executed, the report said. Still, religious leaders like Billy Graham have visited North Korea in highly choreographed trips. Warren said he had asked Graham for advice on his upcoming trip.

"I know they're going to use me," Warren said, responding to a question about whether he was concerned that the invitation could be a set-up, a ruse to draw out Christians so that the government could punish them.

"So I'm going to use them."

W

W_D_J_D Jun 29, 2006

In fact i already know whats he is going to preach........

CAPITALISM!

simple and plain.....he will convert many and get a real big mailing list...asking for money, here by my book.....

"God had a plan for your life......."he wants u to prosper, to be happy, to be real cool, to be like the South Koreans"!!!!

ahhh and if he preached the pure and un-adulterated gospel well im truly not a prophet lol.

Yeah ill pray that he doesnt even make it there, to spread that so called "gospel" he has. Or that he ges converted on the way.

ciao

sermonindex Jun 29, 2006

to some 15,000 Christians in North Korea

It seems from all likely hood that he will be preaching to "christians" so he won't have as much a chnance to evangelize as to rather build up the saints in that country. But personally I am not sure how much he can teach Christians there, they have been in the school of Christ through suffering for a long time. It would definetly be profitable to pray for the anointed of God to fall in the meeting and God endue those believers with much grace and boldness to preach the gospel in that very dark country.

W

wyattearp Jun 29, 2006

W.D.J.D
AMEN
WYATT

R

roaringlamb Jun 29, 2006

Figured I'd post this to let everyone chew on for a bit.

~~[b]~~Calvary Chapel Rejects Purpose Driven
and Emerging Spirituality [/b]
June 16, 2006 - Costa Mesa, CA: Last week at Calvary Chapel's annual pastor's conference, founder and Senior Pastor Chuck Smith announced that Calvary Chapel was rejecting various movements and practices that have been taking place within the Christian church at large as well as in some Calvary Chapel churches. According to a number of pastors who spoke with Lighthouse Trails this week, Smith asked that those Calvary Chapel pastors who were going in the direction of the emerging church would no longer call themselves Calvary Chapel churches.

This week a notice was placed on the Calvary Chapel Distribution website recalling Chuck Smith Sr's book, When Storms Come (which had been tampered with). The notice also stated: "The teaching and positions of Rick Warren have come into conflict with us at Calvary Chapel. Pastor Chuck has directed us to discontinue this product effective immediately."
Both Purpose Driven and the emerging church promote contemplative spirituality, which is a belief system that is contrary to biblical Christianity. Popular authors such as Richard Foster, Brian McLaren, Rick Warren, Henri Nouwen, Brennan Manning and many others teach contemplative spirituality (also known as spiritual formation)
Here is an official statement more concerning emrging churches
~~[url=http://www3.calvarychapel.com/ccof2/parsontoparson.pdf]~~Calvary Chapel Document[/url]

sermonindex Jun 29, 2006

Just the fact that there is a ~~[i]~~possibility[/i] that an evangelical Christian pastor being allowed to speak in front of 15,000 North Korean's is so important in the life of that enslaved nation, I can't even convey how breathtaking that possibility is.

Personally pastor Warren's ministry doesn't resonate with me, but if he was allowed to tell 15,000 North Koreans the Life Love and Passion of Jesus, I praise God for such a thawing in the corrupt idolatrous and pharaohnic leadership of the North Korean leadership. I have been praying that God speak to the dictator of North Korea, Kim Jong Il, and tell him that the only way is Jesus, not nuclear weaponry or force of arms.

Maybe Kim Jong Il is desperate for the love of Christ, these are just men, these leaders of nations....they need Christ too, and maybe, just maybe the leadership of North Korea will allow people to feast at the Banquet Table of Jesus Christ....and maybe Rick Warren will be that messenger.

and brother WDJD, I urge in the love of the Lord to be more circumspect about how God is moving in the Korean peninsula. The Korean church, south Korean, both here in the States and in the ROK is such an annointed, sold out for Jesus, on fire Church. Much prayer and fasting has gone heavenward begging the Lord to free those Northern brethern who are enslaved in the godless system of North Korea, which is known as "JuChe".

Brother, hear me, revival will come to North Korea, it has nothing to do with Rick Warren, it's about how much Jesus loves us.

bartle

sermonindex Jun 29, 2006

Amen brother,

Yes the spiritual discipline and walk of many koreans would shame us if we really knew it. In much watchings, prayers, and fastings their churches perservere with God in prayer, but us lazy, idle, lukewarm north americans can barely put down the controller to get some time with God.

Very good works brother, may God truly send revival to north korea and break the shakels of communism.

sermonindex Jun 29, 2006

for your perusal, with my love, these URL's

http://www.jesus.org.uk/ja/mag_revivalfires_korea.shtml

http://www.btinternet.com/~s.j.mackay/foundations/smkorea.html

sermonindex Jun 29, 2006

Here is a quote from that latter link, great stuff brother:

~~[b]~~Our Present Need[/b]
The Korean Revival is a striking fulfilment of the words of our Lord: “When he (the Spirit of truth) is come, he will reprove (convict) the world of sin” (Jn.16:8). The conscience is awakened as the sinner feels himself in the immediate presence of God. To these Koreans there was an overwhelming sense of the reality of eternal things. Terrible agony for sin and crying for mercy was followed by a sense of pardon, peace and an influx of joy.
We are living in a day when even within the evangelical church there is very little sense of sin and consequently the absence of the spirit of repentance. A W Tozer would often comment on two things: “that there is little sense of sin among the unsaved and that the average Christian lives a life so worldly and careless that it is difficult to distinguish him from the unconverted man”. We should not be surprised that there is no fear of God in society when there is so little fear of God in the church. David Wells writes: “The fundamental problem in the evangelical world today is that God rests too inconsequentially upon the church. His truth is too distant, his grace is too ordinary, his judgment is too benign, his gospel is too easy and his Christ is too common”. We have to recognise a widespread antinomian spirit and a worldly attitude pervading the churches.
If, as we believe, revivals are larger measures of the Spirit of God, how desperately we need to cry and plead for more of this! Our actions cannot determine the giving of revival but may we like the missionaries in Korea be given the Spirit of supplications. As Matthew Henry said: “When God intends great mercy for his people the first thing he does is set them a-praying”.

H

habakkuk3 Jun 29, 2006

My wife is Korean and South Korea is much like North America. North Korea, however, is much different and you will likely be killed if you claim to follow Christ. The revival in Korea actually started in the capital of what is now North Korea.

There's many problems in the church in South Korea. My brother-in-law, who is a Korean Presbyterian minister who immigrated to the U.S., said that many in Korea become pastors simply because it's a very high paying job, not because they were called by Jesus. They certainly need our prayers, probably much more than those in North Korea who are suffering. God's hand won't move in our lives as long as we insist on saying we're rich and in need of nothing.

May we keep both of these countries lifted up. I'm praying that God will bring revival to all of Korea one more time.

I

IRONMAN Jun 29, 2006

brethren
in as much as i don't agree with much of what Rick Warren teaches/preaches, we must remember that the plan of God which is to glorify Himself in and through His Church marches on. He will call to repentance as many as He will and by whatever means He sees fit. the way it is is simply that in spite of ourselves, the plan of our Lord marches on somehow. it remaines to be seen how our Lord will use this because this in fact is something He has made possible for his own glory, but if out Lord can use an ass as He did with Balaam to get His message across, Rick Warren, you or myself even with all our shortcomings will be powerful tools in the Master's hands.

i pray ouf Lord's will be done in Korea. AMEN.

C

ChrisJD Jun 29, 2006

Hi everyone.

Brothers...

I know they're going to use me," Warren said, responding to a question about whether he was concerned that the invitation could be a set-up, a ruse to draw out Christians so that the government could punish them.

I think this is a serious concern. What good, or benevolent, or even benign reason could the North Koreans have for allowing this? Beloved, before I believed that this nation had any sort of change of heart concerning the preaching of the Gospel or the worship of God in Christ, I'd expect they would

Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance

so to speak, concerning our brothers and sisters in chains for example, perhaps setting them free?

Since, according to this article, Mr. Warren says

"So I'm going to use them."

we might all the more then pray that those who might genuinely be seeking after Christ would not fooled, and that God would reach them and feed them the Bread of Life by the hands of His ~~[b]~~true wheat[/b] which he surely has hidden in even this nation's barn. And we should pray for them also, that they be not even tempted to be fed in thier wilderness by any other than Christ, the rock Who follows them.

I would humbly suggest this, anyway.

H

habakkuk3 Jul 4, 2006

I think this is a serious concern. What good, or benevolent, or even benign reason could the North Koreans have for allowing this?

I don't pretend to know the heart of this evil dictator but China has the Three Self Church, which is sanctioned by the government. Perhaps Dictator Kim is imitating his comrades in China?

The real movement in China is in the underground churches and I'm certain that will happen at some point in the Western world as well.

M

mamaluk Jul 4, 2006

From watching others in attacking Lazarus's preaching ministry on this forum, caused me to realize first hand how ugly it is for someone to attack a brother/preacher even when one doesn't agree with his preaching style.

I am deleting my previous post in regards to 'attacking' Rick Warren's ministry,even though I totally disagree with his writings and messages, but to leave the judgment in God's Hands with them.

May God overlook that post had I offended Him with it.

mamaluk

R

roaringlamb Jul 8, 2006

I thought I would post this for all to read.

"When you go in they have to loosen up on religious freedoms," Warren said. "They have to just by your presence. It's like Mandela going into a country. Automatically people start loosening up."

Suzanne Scholte, chairman of the North Korea Freedom Coalition isn't so sure.

"This is a Satanic regime," Scholte told Chad Groening of American Family Radio, "and to go in there and believe that you could actually preach freely is an illusion. It won't do anything to help the church. It will only put the true church at risk, and it will be used as a propaganda piece by the Kim Jong Il regime."

Warren said he is aware that some might misinterpret his visit as an endorsement of the North Korean regime.

"When Billy Graham went to the Soviet Union, there was a lot of criticism of: 'Well, they're using you.' And he said: 'Well, yeah, they're using me, but I'm using them too.'," Warren said.

Graham was criticized following his 1982 visit to Moscow for letting himself be used by the communists when he said he had seen no evidence of religious persecution by the Soviet government and observed that religious freedom was somewhat greater among the people than he had anticipated.

When preaching at the Yelohovski Russian Orthodox Cathedral, Graham exhorted his audience to be better members of the communist state: "God can make you love people you normally would not love. He gives you the power to be a better worker, a more loyal citizen because in Romans 13 we are told to obey the authorities."

Scholte questions what message Warren will be allowed to deliver.

"Kim Jong Il has set himself up as a god. Is he going to say, 'Kim Jong Il is not your god – God is God'?" she asked. "They are raised to believe Kim Jong Il is god and that the God we worship doesn't exist. And so, what is he going to preach?"

Since 2001, North Korea has been designated a "country of particular concern" for violations of religious freedom. Its citizens may not belong to unauthorized religious groups, and believers who proselytize or have ties to evangelical groups in China are arrested, tortured or executed, a 2005 State Department report said.

Given North Korea's history of persecution, Scholte's fear is that the government will use the crusade to identify Christian believers who will be "rounded up and sent to a political prison camp" once Warren leaves the country.

C

ChrisJD Jul 8, 2006

Hi Habakkuk and everyone else.

I don't pretend to know the heart of this evil dictator but China has the Three Self Church, which is sanctioned by the government. Perhaps Dictator Kim is imitating his comrades in China?

As a sort of aside to this thread, when I saw the refrence to the Three Self Patriotic Church I remebered something I read in the February 2006 VOM newsletter and thought I'd share some of it here. No particular point to make here.

According to the article, some of the tenets of this church are:

~~[b]~~One has no ability to have faith[/b]
~~[b]~~There is no hope of salvation[/b]
~~[b]~~Athiests are in heaven[/b]

and...

~~[b]~~Socialisim, China, The Communist Party and the government must be loved/supported above all else.[/b]

those were a few they listed.

M

mamaluk Jul 9, 2006

Yeah, I heard that the Chinese govt., also removed Genesis and Revelation from Bibles, is the devil 'cunning' or what! Talk about spiritual darkness in the high places..

R

roaringlamb Jul 9, 2006

The saddest part, is that people fall for it, hook, line, and sinker!!!
I also wonder why is Rick Warren the spiritual head of Rwanda now, which basically equates with head of Rwanda. Why does his P.E.A.C.E. program look just like that of the U.N.? And why did Jesus say "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets. Lu 6:26"? or "that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God."
Simply some questions to answer.

M

mamaluk Jul 9, 2006

Matthew 24:24 (kjv)

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive ~~[i]~~the very elect.[/i]

Unlike in the days of Hudson Taylor, a ministry by poverty and perils. In the present time, it is often the glamor and sensationalism from America, by prosperity and media hype that draws crowds. I'm sure in time, all will come to the true light. Rick Warren will not be the first or the last false prophet if indeed he is one.

If Mr. Warren's message is a false one, the North Korean government, under the 'satanic' regime will obviously not mind. Just as in China, Satan knows what he's doing, he even arranges his own version of 'bible' for the Chinese 'churches'.

Consider this also, that the North Koreans have heard the real Gospel for years, even just from their South Korean brothers, that's why, this whole Warren thing is perhaps only going to be an exciting and sensational American celebrity show case for them, I'm sure the 15,000 souls will be sent home with a great deal of heart-warming 'hope' by Mr. Warren, whatever the kind of hope it may be.

Just mumbling my 2 cents on a Saturday evening,:)

Regardless, our God's sovereignty over all the nations will reign, please come quickly, O Lord !

mamaluk

C

ChrisJD Jul 9, 2006

Was thinking about this again...

Warren said North Korea would allow him to preach in a stadium seating 15,000, but that he could preach in a larger venue...

~~[b]~~...if he could fill the seats.[/b]

Again, the concern here about motive and what this could mean for our true brothers. Who knows what reasons they may have to attend this or expose themselves to being discovered. So I wanted to encourage us all to remmeber to pray for them.