Fighting on the victory side

This is a good thread, but there is something I would like to point out. Scripture does indeed say that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. And also that to confess with your mouth and to believe, concerning Jesus, we will be saved. However, that confession, I believe, means confession and repentance of sins.
If the individual is unrepentant, they cannot be saved. As they see it, what is there to repent of? Jesus says in Luke 13v3,5, ...but unless you repent you will likewise perish.
Still, it is a good thread. Keep up the good work for the Lord. God bless.

yes this is true...but i see alot of this that many do confess whit their mouth..but as i see in the bible..if jesus is your lord... you DO IN ACTION as he says... many just confess christ as SAVIOR... a FORGIVER... a new improved lifestyle...

The first is Romans 10:9 - 'That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord...

jesus is lord in my life.. lord of my money lord of my time lord of my will lord of my mouth, lord in my home jesus is my LORD....

if thats the case then i belive we are on the way to salvation... i think a great sermon on false teachings and false conversions is this one... just heard it today and its so awesome...
it shows us the truth

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=12827

[i]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.[/i] Joh 15:4-10

Take note of the "[b]If[/b]'s"

That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.'

In the context of North American Christianity, circa 2006 I feel this scripture needs much systematic comparison with the entire counsel of the bible. My concern over a wrong use of this scripture does not come from an antagonistic background theologically speaking. I grew up Calvinist and thoroughly Southern Baptist...two segments of the church that would readily agree with any attempts to confirm "sola Christa", "sola scriptura", and "sola fide" in the heart of the Born Again Christian.

However, we live in an age where many Christians are not born again. This may seem like an oxymoron...certainly according to the bible it is. Yet, I have had to come to this dreadful conclusion, even as a hostile witness resisting this sad observation.

We need to ask ourselves, when we "say" Jesus is Lord, can we really say such a thing? If I say I am a republican, but I vote democratic...then what good is my profession? My premise is that Paul was saying, "If you can indeed confess that Jesus is Lord, because he is in fact Lord, then you are saved."

Compare just a few scriptures, not only by the precise meaning of words but also by the plain thrust of the whole passage. There is little in here that will give us a sense of the legal superficial, transcendental unlived righteousness of American Christianity.

But know this, that in the last days, grievous times will come.... traitors, headstrong, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God;...holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power thereof. Turn away from these, also...For of these are those who creep into houses, and take captive gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts...always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth....But they will proceed no further. For their folly will be evident to all men, as theirs also came to be....But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

RC Sproul, a reformed theologian that I am quite fond of says in his book Getting the Gospel Right, “We deny that we are justified by the righteousness of Christ infused into us or by any righteousness that is thought to inhere with us.” Many of us who claim allegiance to the reformed traditions may shout amen, with a desire to express humility and gratefulness for the matchless gift of Christ's atonement. Statement’s like Sproul's are calculated to avoid a legalistic approach to salvation yet because it is preoccupied with legal questions of justification by faith, such forensic grace teachings are ultimately legalistic themselves. (That is to say, they are organized along concerns of the law and not concerned with finding a people that are preoccupied with loving God and his ways.)

This concern is not against evangelical theology of imputed righteousness, but that we have long lost the substance of the great evangelists understanding of this righteousness and it's effect on men. Wesely, Edwards, and Whitefield may have disagreed on many things, but not on the need for the New Birth. Today Calvinism represents “cheap grace” but this was not the case in Whitefield’s, Edwards, or Spurgeons day! (Edwards was emphatic “Only those that are holy are in the way to heaven. Many are not sensible enough of the necessity of holiness to salvation. Everyone hopes for heaven…")Likewise modern Arminisim seems to achieve little more then busy altars, where people cry tears of repentence but still walk away with defeated lives.(Ravenhill once said something like " We've Romanized our altars...making them a sacrament." So in our day, we have plenty of security through legal justification doctrines…this abstraction is so abundant that our churches our filled with Christians wanting more substance like Western equivilants of Buddhists seeking to become closer to God through means such as conscious altering worship services, mystical contemplation, and social activism.

Stop and think for a moment. Do you say Jesus is Lord? Do you truly believe that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead? If so, then you are saved.

Brother I feel a challenge with this point is in order because it is offered so frequently out of context…although I certainly empathize with your compassion in offering a biblical comfort. Certainly you would agree that not all who say "Lord, Lord" are known by the Lord! Our fears will never be put down by reading texts alone because these texts point not to themselves alone but to a Pentecost encounter, where the living Holy Spirit moves upon a sin weary soul in the fire and light of reality…which is more then theory or mechanics of doctrine. Spiritless Christianity is the problem and comforting someone with reference to bible texts is not the solution.

As a comfort to our souls, we are told to expect the personal confirmation via the Holy Spirit within us that we are indeed Sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God...
It is not healthy for us to be too quick to talk a frightened soul out of their fears…they may not be that far from the Kingdom of God! The power of the Gospel is more then a blessed psychological comfort of justification to burdened sinners, but it awakens a faith that recieves the power of God, redeeming sinners into Godly people.

Consider the faithful testimony of John Bunyan in Pilgrims Progress. Pilgrim and Pliable both set out and soon fell in the swamp of despondency. In our modern age, the mere setting out would qualify for salvation, but soon Pliable turned back. Also note that it wasn’t till later that Pilgrim lost the burden of sin from His back, after a near fatal encounter with Worldy Wisdom that almost beguiled him out of his burden. Not all who mean to embrace the Christian creed are born again, not all are New Creatures! This deliverance from death is not something that is arrived at through reformed theology but a reformed heart that will manifest iteself in character. We can insist on justification all our lives, but I believe without insisting on the promise of the New Birth, our churches will never see revival even if they hold revival meetings for a thousand years.

Here is Jonathan Edwards preaching to his congregation on real security. Notice how the faithful preacher offers the tormented soul no comfort through justification theory, but insists on a living encounter with God’s saving power.
Thus are all you that have never passed under a great change of heart, but the mighty power of the Spirit of God upon your souls: all that were never born again and made new creatures, and raised from being dead in sin to a state of new, and before altogether unexperienced light and life (however you may have reformed your life in many things, and may have had religious affections, and may keep up a form of religion in your families, and closets, and in the house of God, and may be strict in it.) You are thus in the hands of an angry God; tis nothing but his mere pleasure that keeps you from this moment from being swallowed up in everlasting destruction.

MC

God will never ever tell you something that is opposite to what scripture says, so i f you have truly done the above in Romans, and someone in your head tells you that you are headed for Hell, then ignore it because it is Satan

Careful now! Here you are pointing to something in the past to validate one’s present position with God. The doubts may very well come from God and NOT Satan.

but i see alot of this that many do confess whit their mouth..but

Our ability to be deceived about ourselves is beyond what we could imagine. We can indeed believe we have gone through all the right “hoops”. I did! I was one of the best Christians around – both by what I did in the past and what I was doing. What was missing was GOD’S part in the process - and that was according to God’s perfect timing and work in my life.

We simply are not good at self-evaluation – we will always believe what we want to believe or what others tell us. We have no idea what hidden sins, wrong thinking, idols, unbelief, etc lurk in our unconscious. Only God knows, and he brings it to light. That is often what we want to deny, as the exposure is very unpleasant.

Sometimes our desire for eternal assurance is greater than our desire to be conformed to Christ and obey him in faith. Perhaps rather than asking God, “Am I saved?” we should ask, “Lord, will you show me where I am not conformed to your image?”
Diane

Richard, There is no need to apologize. We are not here to present a polished product. You have been thinking and that is important – even if it means going through some rough edges. Our collective misunderstandings about salvation didn’t just pop up overnight, and won’t go a way overnight. It takes a lot of wrestling with God, each other, and ourselves to get back to right thinking.

There have been a lot of threads on this topic, and that is a good thing. Hopefully we’re clearing the weeds and getting closer to the pure truth.

Keep thinking and keep wrestling.

Diane