Witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses

sermonindex Jul 10, 2006

Last week the Mormons stopped at my door. They caught me at a bad time, so I invited them to stop in another time... mainly so I could have time to brush up on what they believe before we talked.

This week the JW's stopped by (must be that time of year!), and unfortunately for them... I am very well versed in what they believe.

I thought I would throw this out there for anyone who comes in contact with these folks. When you're talking to them they will not stay on subject at all, but rather try and take you on a confusing journey through the Bible.

It's very important to get them to stick to two main points:

Who was Jesus?

What must I do to be saved?

They believe that Jesus was not God, but a created being. Their version (The New World) says in John:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was ~~[b]~~a[/b] god.

Of course, the KJV (and modern versions) say:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word ~~[b]~~was[/b] God.

They will insist that the verse really is "a" god. So I asked them "So you're saying you are poly-theists... meaning you believe in multiple gods?" And they always answer "Of course not! This simply means that Jesus was "god-like"." And then I said "But thats not what you just read... your Bible clearly says that He was "a god"... which means there is more than one God!"

And around and around it goes...

On the second point... ask them "what must I do to be saved?" and they will explain to you that we are "saved" (and they cringe at that term) by living up to God's standard. Then I ask them "So how's that going for you? Are you living up to His standard?" And at first they say "Yes." So I ask them what God's stadard is... and they will point to Jesus example. I then said "His example was perfection... are you prefect?" They wont answer that, but rather they will begin talking about the 10 commandments. Then I point out the scripture that says:

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Then I ask them "You've never lied since becoming a JW? You've never committed adultry by looking upon a woman with lust in your heart?" They hem and haw and never answer the question.

Then I explained to them using scripture that if we are saved by our own works then Jesus Christ died for absolutely nothing, and was the biggest idiot the world ever saw. I gave them my testimony and told them that I know with absolute certainty that I am saved... and they can not say that. All they can do is be as good as they can and hope thats good enough when they stand before God, whereas when I stand before Him I know that I am washed in the blood and am clean before my Lord. Period. It is finished! Praise God.

Now, a quick note to those who will attempt to discuss scripture using a modern version with JW's... dont do it. It's not impossible, but it can be difficult. A KJV to a JW is like a cross to a vampire, or a silver bullet to a werewolf. But these two JW's had a booklet in the New World Translation version that was a guide to modern versions and how to use them to when they run into a Christian who has a modern version... especially an NIV. I saw it with my own eyes.

Why is this? Because the NWT that the JW's use is based on the same school of manuscripts as the NIV, NASB, etc etc. The NWT of the JW's is actually the truest translation of the Wescott & Hort greek text.

For instance... when answering the question "What must I do to be saved" my favorite passage is in Acts:

Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? ~~[b]~~37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.[/b] 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Try looking up verse 37 in an NIV... you can't! It's not there. And it's missing in other modern versions as well, and if it isnt missing, then there is a footnote that says that verse probably shouldnt be there.

But praise God, in the KJV it is there with no apologies. A clear presentation of what is required in order to be saved.

Well anyway... I spent 2 hours on my front deck with this folks. I know many Christians have been rude to the JW's when they come around. I for one see it as a wonderful mission field. I mean think about it... they come right to your door! How cool is that?

So I hope this helps anyone who may come in contact with these people when they come around. Oh, and one more thing to remember... if you come across to JW's as knowing your Bible, they will not come back. So make the best of it. HOWEVER, the Mormons will come back if you know what you're talking about. The Mormons are big on education, and the JW's are not. The Mormons are looking to pull in people with are not afraid to study and learn. Their growth in the past decade or so has been mainly from people leaving mainline churches... which is a result of lazy Christians who do not know their Bible. It's pathetic, really. But anyway, if they sense that you may be an influencial personality they will come back because they figure if they can hook you... you'll bring others with you when you convert to Mormonism. But thats ok!! Let them come back again and again! Thats more opportunity to win them to the TRUTH.

A WARNING!! Do ~~[b]~~not[/b] attempt to discuss anything with either Mormons or JW's if you do not know basic Biblical doctrine, or you do not know what they believe. They use the same terminology we do... but they mean something completely different. Thats why I asked the Mormons to come back another time because I knew I was rusty on what they believe.

Someone is bound to point out that the Mormons use the KJV. This is true... they do USE the KJV, but they do not BELIEVE the KJV. Big difference. Heck, when you study their doctrine, they dont even believe the Book of Mormon!

Anyway... hope this helps!

Krispy

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enid Jul 10, 2006

This is a good article. I live about a 10 minute walk from a kingdom hall, so we get regular visits from them. As for Bible versions, I use the NKJ, it has all the verses but modernised. Still, when I do get a visit, I will use the KJV. I don't invite them into the house, neither did you, you used the front deck! However, with the admonition in 2 John v10, I don't invite them in. That is, I suppose that is what that verse means.
They are however, sadly deceived. We had someone visit our church a few times who had left the Jehovah witnesses and was seeking a church to go to. He told us a lot about how he was treated now he had left. He asked questions, questioned the leadership, and was told to pray about everything. Nothing was disscussed, ever. Eventually, he left and they no longer speak to him, which is something they always do. He also said, when he visited a church, they treated him as a 'trophy', which is something we should avoid if we want to win people to Christ in general. However, good article, God bless!

sermonindex Jul 10, 2006

I don't invite them into the house, neither did you, you used the front deck! However, with the admonition in 2 John v10, I don't invite them in. That is, I suppose that is what that verse means.

Thats exactly right... I dont invite them into my house because of that scripture. I also do not have my kids around when I'm talking with them because I dont want anything they say plant a seed of doubt in my kids. My oldest is 11. When he is 15 or so I will begin to let him sit in on those kinds of discussions.

As for being a trophy... I know how that feels. Before I was saved I was a real hell raiser, and everyone knew of me. If people here knew me back around 1990 they would be shocked. And when I was saved the church I was saved in held me up as a major victory... and it first it was embarrassing because I didnt like to talk about the wretch that I was... and after awhile it turned into a a real issue of pride for me. Kinda like whenever I gave my testimony it was like I was bragging about my old life. It's funny how the devil does that.

So now I dont delve into a lot of detail about my past for my own sake. I just hit the highlites... I was a Marine, drank heavy, fist fights, foul mouthed... enough said. I dont like to give my testimony publicly anymore for that very reason. But one on one I do because I love to share with people what God has done for me.

Krispy

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enid Jul 10, 2006

You say your oldest is 11 and when he is 15 you'll begin to tell him? Tell him now! The next four years could mean so much. I say that for more reason than one. My youngest is 11, and has a boy in his class at school whose parents are JW's. When they have certain events at school, this boy opts out, and my son asks why. So I tell him. Another is a few years ago we were talking to some JW's and the boy with them, about 10 or 11 years old, was looking up scriptures as we were speaking to his father.
Also, the parent mantra, as I call it, in Proverbs, train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it. Most important of all, we need to teach our children the word of God, so that when they hear heresy, they know it. God bless.

sermonindex Jul 10, 2006

You're preaching to the choir... my oldest new more Biblical doctrine at 7 years old than most adult Christians do today. We homeschool and the Bible is the biggest part of our curriculum. It's interwoven into everything they study.

What I am saying is that 11 years old he is not yet mature enough to listen to a JW because they are very deceptive and persuasive. That is why I recommend anyone who does not know true doctrine, or does not understand theirs should never never engage them in conversation.

Every parent needs to decide with much prayer when their child is old enough to handle these type of situations. In the meantime we are to be "shade for the children", and I strongly believe in that.

I did discuss with my two oldest (11 and 10) what the JW's believe after they left on Saturday, and showed them why they were wrong. But even someone who knows the Bible can sometimes be thrown off by JW's if you dont stick to the two main points that I mentioned earlier. All it takes is a seed of doubt... and then it begins to grow. We need to be very cautious about our children.

Krispy

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PaulWest Jul 10, 2006

Lots of good stuff!

I've had my share of talks with the JW's too. If you know your Bible and walk in the Spirit, you can dismantle Russell's junk theology like a car engine. But I don't do it anymore; I don't bother playing scripture-tennis with them. Though I know they see Jesus as Michael the Archangel and believe he set up his invisible kingdom on earth in 1914 (a date they base off an erroneous calculation by which they believe Babylon fell), and that the Holy Spirit is but an impersonal force like fire or electricity, etc. I don't go there anymore, I don't waste my time. They already have prefabricated answers, twisted scripture designed to refute ALL objections to their theology. Haven't you noticed? As soon as you cite an obvious refutation, they're thumbing through their bibles, not even listening, saying, "Okay. Please come with me to James, etc." They're programmed like machines. The Watchtower provides them all with detailed handbooks to answer every objection you can throw at them.

Well, when a JW tries to engage me nowadays, I immediately go for the jugular. I lovingly expose the fruit of their heresy. I point out all the false prophecies put out since the inception of the Russellite church (their original name) and how all the false prophecies have been covered up by the Watchtower. This is the best thing you can do in terms of disarming their theology. It goes straight for the jugular, and resonates a chord of doubt concerning the reliability of the Watchtower as a prophetic organization. It plants a deadly seed, and prods them to further investigate the truth of what you're saying.

There are many, MANY false prophecies to bring to light. You can ask them if they have a minute to go through all of them with you. They won't. They'll try to get away from you ASAP. But you don't want them to leave right away; the whole reason for crushing the Watchtower is to open a door in which you can speak the truth of salvation by faith through Jesus Christ. You merely expose their false prohecies in order to cast doubt upon the spiritual dictatorship of the Watchtower, and while the walls of the mind are down, you can quickly scatter seeds of truth.

I don't know all the false prophecies off hand, to list them here, but a general search will give you plenty. The most prominent one was probably made in 1878, where Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were coming to earth to set up kingdom. Many JW's sold their possessions in anticipation. When it failed to come to pass, lots of JW's left the cult. This bit of history has been completely covered up. Not many JW's know about it, obviously. Bear in mind that the more savvy and experienced Winesses will retaliate with Proverbs 4:18, which is an incredibly lame cop-out, but this is simply the programmed response the Watchtower tells them to use when confronted by allegations of false prophecy. If you ask them how it fits in with Deuteronomy 18, the discussion will be over (unless they say the Watchtower has never claimed to be prophetic, which, of course, is not true, and can be proven otherwise).

God bless!

Brother Paul

sermonindex Jul 10, 2006

Yea... if they show up during dinner and you're really hungry, just bring up Charles Russell. They will be gone before dinner starts to cool. I tried it once. They came to the door and I said "Oh! Hi... you're from the Russellite Church, right?" ...you never seen anyone run away so fast in your life! But I stopped doing that because I prayed about it and I believe the Lord wants me to preach the Word to them whenever I have the opportunity.

You're approach is correct... crush the Watchtower Organization and you got 'em by the throat. But I tend to stick to the same 2 points I mentioned before because I can handle scripture well enough to get them to admit they are poly-theists and that Christ died for nothing if we can work our way to salvation.

But we must alway remember, especially people like us on this forum... it is NOT about winning an argument!! It's about planting seeds of Truth! Praise God.

Krispy

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enid Jul 10, 2006

Like the tip about using the Russellite Church!
It isn't about winning arguments, but souls. Most times I don't answer the door. But I might get a flyer in the street fom one of them. Sometimes I take it and throw it away or I simply refuse. I don't know if this is right, but I do it anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, I need it. God bless.

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PaulWest Jul 10, 2006

Amen, brother. By all means, focus on the two points, and go where the Spirit is leading you. Just remember, they are trying to win you over too. To them, you're a deluded captive of Satan who worships a three-headed pagan god. Anything you say is going to be tainted by this mindset. To circumvent this, I simply go for the root. As quickly as it begins, it's all over. They can't lead me down a rabbit trail now, and their faith in "Big Brother" has been dealt a serious blow. I mean, put yourself in their shoes - wouldn't that take the fight out of you? Here you are, you've invested you entire life (and eternal fate) into something that is now in clear violation of God's Word. Brother, it can be a massive blow.

Please do not misunderstand! I would never bring up failed prophecy to merely "win the argument" and inflate my ego! I love these lost souls, and will do anything necessary to win them to Jesus Christ - which is precisely why I pull out the big guns right away! I don't know how much time I have to witness to them.

Once the walls of their defenses have gone down, THEN I talk about the person of Christ and what the Bible says they must do to be saved. But my experience has been that if I don't incapacitate the Watchtower first, the conversation quickly evolves into nothing but scripture duels, THEM trying to convert ME. If your method works, praise God! There's more than one way to skin a cat!

Here are some failed prophecies they cannot account for, citated from Watchtower Publications:

1972
"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ... This 'prophet' was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses." Watchtower 4/1/72, p 197

1889
"In this volume we offer a chain of testimony on the subject of God's appointed times and seasons, each link of which we consider Scripturally strong ... it is beyond the breadth and depth of human thought, and therefore cannot be of human origin." Studies in the Scriptures Vol 2, 1889, p 15

1892
"The date of the close of that 'battle' is definitely marked in Scripture as October, 1914. It is already in progress, its beginning dating from October 1874." Watchtower Reprints, 1/15/1892, p 1355

1897
"Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874." Studies in the Scriptures, Vol 4, 1897, p 621

1899
"...the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced." The Time Is at Hand, (1908 ed), p 101

1914
"The war will proceed and will eventuate in no glorious victory for any nation, but in the horrible mutilation and impoverishment of all. Next will follow the Armageddon of anarchy." The New York Times, 10/5/14, p 8

1916
"In the meantime, eyes of understanding should discern clearly the Battle of the Great Day of God Almighty now in progress; and our faith ... should enable us to see the glorious outcome -- Messiah's Kingdom." Watchtower Reprints, 9/1/16, p 5951

1916
"The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six... days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873." The Time Is at Hand, p ii

1918
"Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p 89

1920
"As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized .... Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham...." Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p 89

1922
"The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." Watchtower, 9/1/22, p 262

1922
"The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures because it is fixed by the law God gave to Israel. Viewing the present situation in Europe, one wonders how it will be possible to hold back the explosion much longer; and that even before 1925 the great crisis will be reached and probably passed." Watchtower, 9/1/22, p 262

1923
"Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." Watchtower, 4/1/23, p 106

Jan. 1925
"The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during the year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his own people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire during this year that they would fail to joyfully do what the Lord would have them to do." Watchtower, 1/1/25, p 3

Sept 1925
"It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated the thought that 1925 should see an end of the work, and that therefore it would be needless for them to do more." Watchtower, 9/1/25, p 262

1926
"Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." The Watchtower, p 232

1931
"There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates." Vindication, p 338

May 1940
"The year 1940 is certain to be the most important year yet, because Armageddon is very near. It behooves all who love righteousness to put forth every effort to advertise THE THEOCRACY while the privileges are still open." Informant, May 1940, p 1

Sept 1940
"The Kingdom is here, the King is enthroned. Armageddon is just ahead. The glorious reign of Christ that shall bring blessings to the world will immediately follow. Therefore the great climax has been reached. Tribulation has fallen upon those who stand by the Lord." The Messenger, Sept 1940, p 6

1941
"Meantime the German people are awakening to their horrible predicament. They no longer laugh as decent men and women were made to laugh, but their faces are white, pinched and filled with forebodings of what the near future will bring and is already hastening to bring to them -- Armageddon, the battle of that great day of God Almighty." Consolation, 10/29/41, p 11

1940
"We realize that all people who love righteousness and hate lawlessness must quickly take their stand on the Lord's side if they are to receive his protection in Armageddon; for, as THE WATCHTOWER and the physical facts clearly indicate, the 'strange work' is rapidly coming to a close. It is only by studying the WATCHTOWER magazine and kindred publications that they can get the needed life-giving knowledge. There is no other source." Informant, July 1940, p 2

1941
"Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon." Watchtower, 9/15/41, p 288

1968
"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world,' even announcing a specific date. Some have gathered groups of people with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet, nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing was the full measure of evidence required in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them." Awake, Oct 8, 1968, p 23

1975
"Why are you looking forward to 1975?" Watchtower, 8/15/68, p 494

What does Scripture say about false prophets?

"If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." (Deuteronomy 18:22)

MORE

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PaulWest Jul 10, 2006

In reading over your last post, I think you grossly misunderstood me. I don't just "go for the throat" to get them off my doorstep. I guess you saw my reference of "going for the jugular" to mean just that! I can see how that can be misleading!

I witness Jesus to them like they've never heard, brother! It's just the order by which I do it that you may not agree with. As I present the law before grace to regular sinners, so I believe in neutralizing the Watchtower before I bring the law and grace to a JW cultist. I think that's wise. Jesus told us to be shrewd in our dealings with outsiders, to be wise as serpents. Interpret this as you will, brother, but I think we need to disable the strongman before we can plunder the house.

Just a thought,

Brother Paul

sermonindex Jul 10, 2006

Most times I don't answer the door. But I might get a flyer in the street fom one of them. Sometimes I take it and throw it away or I simply refuse. I don't know if this is right, but I do it anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, I need it. God bless.

I think if you are confident in your doctrine you should talk to them. Why not? They need to gospel just as much as any other lost person.

I refuse their material as well. I dont need it, and there is no point in reading it because the material they leave says all the right things... it's very shallow.

I did request a free copy of the Book of Mormon tho so that I can read it and know more about their beliefs. What I have found in my study of Mormonism is that their church's doctrine even contradicts the Book of Mormon... so I love to use it to show them how their own religion contradicts itself.

Krispy

sermonindex Jul 10, 2006

Paul... no no no, brother! I didnt misunderstand you at all. I didnt think you were trying to get rid of them, or that your approach is wrong. I was just saying in general we sometimes get into a mindset where we want to win the argument above all else... and that was written for ME more than anyone else! LOL

That was just a general statement to everyone reading this that we should stay focussed on the goal... winning them to the Truth.

Believe me, my pride can just as easily well up and desire an argumenative victory over anything else.

Actually, I like your approach and will begin to incorporate that into my own. Thanx for sharing the prophecies as well.

This is what this forum should be... iron sharpening iron! Praise God!

Krispy

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Tears_of_joy Jul 10, 2006

Hi brothers and sisters,

I would recommend very good video about this subject - ~~[url=http://www.jeremiahfilms.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=1457029.8794*MF6o72&p_id=JWNPOV20&xm=on&ppinc=product]~~Jehovah's Witnesses: A Non-Prophet Organization[/url] by Jeremiah Films.
It is full of historical facts and personal testemonies of formal JW's. I can see that there other three videos but I haven't watch them, probably they are good as well.
The informations that I gained were profitable concerning my knoweledge about this religion from the satan abusing the word of God.

Kire