Ministry of Music (or not)-Part II

Greeting to all,

I posted a thread about a month ago about the goings on in the ministry of with I was (still is) serving. There was much tormoil in my soul and vexation from the leadership's decision to bring in a talented singer who knew how to entertain and "push buttens" in favor of true worship. I also mentioned (along with "His Will", another poster) a service that we have been directed by God to have where there was no program, no agenda but Christ's, no plan, just an expectation. (the service was all of that, and more and it exceeded all of our expectations-more on that later).

It's funny (not really funny) how much tormoil has been revealed in the pulpit since Mr. Entertainment has taken over. There has been a disregard for the other singers, the anointing has not been there, a lot of manipulitive statements - and guess what? I have had to sit back and watch, of course and pray. (sometimes we don't know how God is working things out but He is).
Something I have come to understand, and that is God is sovereign. This is trying everyone. The people in their choice to accept this type of "ministry" or not, the leadership for "suffering" this to be so, just like God's people suffered Jezebel in Revelation 2 (or 3, I'm not near a Bible), trying me and causing me not only to get on my face, but also exposing even how I have 'secretly' desired recognition and other things hidden in me. I have had to come clean before God in those and other things. I have took another stance, a truer stance. I cry before the Lord, at my instrument before I touch a key, because I realize, that music in itself will not provoke the change, but my worship, and cleanes of hands through Christ, my brokeness, my intercession, my obedience, is what makes the difference. I have come to the point to not even care for the music, except as it is in harmony with what is in heaven - so it will be on earth.

There is meeting to go forth today, because leadership wants to know what the "friction" is about and how can it be resolved?, but God is not looking for a "can we all just get along stance", but God's heart must be revealed.

I do solicite your agreement in prayer according to

Psalms 20 1 The LORD hear thee in the day of trouble; the name of the God of Jacob defend thee;

2 Send thee help from the sanctuary, and strengthen thee out of Zion;

3 Remember all thy offerings, and accept thy burnt sacrifice; Selah.

4 Grant thee according to thine own heart, and fulfil all thy counsel.

5 We will rejoice in thy salvation, and in the name of our God we will set up our banners: the LORD fulfil all thy petitions.

6 Now know I that the LORD saveth his anointed; he will hear him from his holy heaven with the saving strength of his right hand.

7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.

8 They are brought down and fallen: but we are risen, and stand upright.

9 Save, LORD: let the king hear us when we call.

This is all for HIS NAME'S SAKE. This is all that matters. It's not about mE, as I have learned. There is something greater at stake. "This is my beloved Son, whom I have begotten, HEAR YE HIM! Please pray that leadership will hear HIM.
A man has the people captive in distorting worship, and drawing the attention to himself. May God remove anything from the alter that's not like HIM. When it is so crucial for people to see Christ, (especially is what is at stake in the souls of the people).

This worship dilemma sounds all too familiar. Sometimes I wonder if we are passing the same script around, and all take our turn playing the scenes. (I realize, that it is not funny when you are in the midst of the turmoil.)

I heard about a church that decided to avoid this problem by resorting to CDs. In my opinion that is simply a cop-out. While it may prevent friction, it never allows for personal growth that can happen through the conflicts.

This is all for HIS NAME'S SAKE. This is all that matters. It's not about mE, as I have learned. There is something greater at stake. "This is my beloved Son, whom I have begotten, HEAR YE HIM! Please pray that leadership will hear HIM.

I really appreciate your heart – how you are concerned about the testimony of Christ, how you want Christ to work in you personally, and that the leadership will look Christ-ward. You do very well to step back a bit from it, pray, and just leave it with God. You sleep better that way.

God is clearly sending the refining fires, and that can effect change far better than good music, as you point out. While it may look messy and shameful now, God will indeed have the glory in the end. Just watch what he does. And, by the way, one way or other, Mr. Entertainment will be found out. Hopefully, the leadership will see that seeking impressive "worship", while not flowing with the team is not the way to make a strong fellowship.

Diane

Thanx Diane,

You know, I was angry at first, but even today when I began to really pray to get to the heart of the matter, my heart was weeping, I know I was feeling the heart of God. I know they are going to try to iron things out for the sake of unity, but Eph 4 says to endeavor for the unity of the Spirit, not the flesh, nevertheless -

I am seeking prayer for this meeting tonight that the voice of the LORD will be heard, and the minstry of the Spirit will not be hindered, or restricted, or reasoned out, for the sake of..."?whatever it is that men seek rather than laboring for what God wants.

Thanks for the response, as I'm encouraged by them and strengthened to battle further, for HIS NAME'S SAKE.

You are in my prayers dear one...I have been where you are and only survived by walking with the only friend that I could rely on and of course, Jesus, was all that I needed.

Stay true to the Spirit and the Truth of your personal worship and let the other's lesser offerings be revealed and destroyed by their selfish aims.

Be the beacon that we are called to be...illiminate the Love of Christ and let His light drive the darkness from your body. He will restore your soul and His people.

Been there also.
What I learned is that first I be patient and wait on the Lord, not be judgemental when church leadership pulls your plug for another, and remember that church leadership is to be followed.
If you do not beleive your church leadership is seeking after God in Christ and therefore to be adhered to, then get out and worship elsewhere. Either get behind ordained leadership, or get out of the way. Like you said, God is leading this somewhere, but it may not be with your voice.

Still praying ... let us know how God has moved.

Sorry freedbyjc,

I usually reply and respond only on weekdays when I'm at work.
GOD IS MOVING and the way He's moving is not pretty (fleshwise that is). The ministry that I'm serving in had a "revival"(you know that's what they call a series of services when renowned speakers and singing...you know what I mean, right).
Anyway, I know that you all where praying because something very significant happenned at the meeting Tuesday nite. The forum was designed to get clarity about why there was so much tension, thinking it could be resolved by getting along, but not wanting to really touch on what happened in the Spirit. Considering that you take a praise group that, even though there were issues with consistancy and no defined leadership, there was still a unity and a mutual hunger for God. Again, you bring in an untried person, whom no one knows, and visibly more about himself and not in the least (again I say visibly) concerned about the Holy Spirit's leading and His workings, there was a major problem. Without belaboring this again, it had to be expressed.

In expressing this (or trying), it was taken as if we were non-conforming and had the wrong attitude's (we meaning also my co-laborer in this assignment, who posts on hiswill). She had received the blunt of the attack. Please continue to pray for both of us, as we are seeing eyes opened but not without a fight!

We were alone (fleshwise but God is with us), whereas even fellow praise team members, being notably vexed by the change, wouldn't as much as say anything controversial about the change, though the floor was open.
Sorry, it's taking a minute to get to the point here, but follow.
What happened next was amazing. I had been praying at my desk earlier in the day, until I really began to feel the heart of God for people and His desire for true worship and idolatry in the form of musicmanship, and personality worship. The enemy was clearly trying to intimadate and make me fear, but I spoke with the same intensity as when I began to sense the heart of God.(I'm not bold by nature I note)I began to tell them how that songs just to be sung are nothing, and to continue to sing without the goal of praise and worship was meaningless. Oh yea, the pastor said he was tired of lack of preparation and he said the leading of the Holy Spirit was good and fine (as if to downplay that) and said preparation was the "key" and the God takes what we prepare as He "blesses" it, you know kindof like He did with Cain (I speak sarcastically). He said any questions. That's when I told him I had a problem with that because he was making light of the work of the Holy Spirit in favor of preparation, AND futhermore without the leading of the Holy Spirit and the heart for what God wants, the song and preparation was nothing. It was bold and conviction, until the point were he boldly challenged me...So what are you gonna do, you're eithere with us or you're not, but if you're leaving...I said what I was going to do was intercede. The whole discourse (the entire message I gave)I know was from God, but it's like they couldn't hear Him, or acknowledge what God was saying, but He spoke.

Afterward all I knew is that I had obeyed, you see-to play an instrument for me-from the beginning, was given to me by God, as a praise and I have never stopped playing for that reason-it's like that was being challenged, and playing for any other reason was not in my vocab. I think it offended him, but God did arise, the very next day...

After the service on the next day, very rocky "praise and worship" to say the least, the word of God was on target, as the speaker began to speak on "Vision". His main thrust was that if your vision is not God-centered, it was not worth anything. It was out of the heart of God, but what happened afterward was God's vindication...
I had been playing softly behind the man of God as he ministered as I do..After service as I was walking to depart, the man of God in the presence of the pastor in whom I had given the message in the meeting told me this "IF YOUR PLAYING IS JUST ABOUT PLAYING YOU MISSED IT, YOUR VISION TO GO BEYOND THIS PLACE. WHEN YOU PLAYED, I SENSE THE ANNOINTING OF GOD, YOU ARE NOT TO PLAY JUST TO BE SEEN OR HEARD, IF THAT IS SO YOU MISSED IT. YOUR PLAYING MUST BE A MODE OF COMMUNICATION-WITH GOD, AS UNTO GOD COMMUNICATING TO MAN, I WANTED TO ENCOURAGE YOU WITH THAT-,

Friday, another prophet ministered to him (the pastor) by telling him to stop fighting what God is trying to do for that ministry. He said that he was frustrating people around him who were working with him because of his unwillingness to change and to yield to God-His move and what God wants to do. Part of it is God wanting to restore what had been forsaken. (In the 50's this was a church know for TRUE manifestations of healing and deliverance, when people would be drawn from of the streets, get delivered from alcholism and get saved, on come out a wheelchairs, delivered from tumors, etc).

Much said, but this is what we are in battle for. Our part is the restoration of the praise and worship, which is prerequisite (rather a vital part of restoration of the things of God, for Revival)

Thanks for sharing, NONE4ME. I am just a tad confused about what you mean by this:

Our part is the restoration of the praise and worship, which is prerequisite (rather a vital part of restoration of the things of God, for Revival)

Diane

Never be sorry, Dear one. I was impatient...read on :roll:

As I was re-reading your earlier posts, I was feeling a move of God and was eager to share your joy at the Glory of our God!

Awesome testimony ...again you placed your burden in His most capable hands, were prayed up and when you discerned the Word of God ...you spoke the truth of it without fear or malice. And then through your obedience to God you poured out your heart and blessed your offereing. God sent you meaningful support and showed you His mercy, that as His child you were not alone in your discernment.

Again awesome, a breakthrough seems emmanent ...keep on praying and I'll keep you and your Worship Ministry in my prayers.

Our part is the restoration of the praise and worship, which is prerequisite (rather a vital part of restoration of the things of God, for Revival)

That is so true. Interrestingly enough that was the same thing that the Lord spoke to me during worship this last Sunday.

During worship I was finding it kind of hard to focus, and then suddenly with my spirit I saw dung appear before me. I almost completely dismissed it. Then I was like "wait a second Lord. Are You trying to say that our worship is like dung before You?" I was shocked, but I culd sense that it was true.

Then within my spirit I could see the room from a top perspective, from God's perspective and I could see the service the way He was seing it. I was amazed. I have tried explaining what I saw but, it is hard. What I knew is that when we get to heaven we will see all the times we were supposedly worshipping the Lord when we weren't even focused on Him and lifting Him up. We just have fun singing the song as if it is a concert and in the end make our selves feel good, thinking that we actually achieved something when God was not truely lifted up.

And the Lord revealed to me that if we expect to reach our potential in Him and bring revival to the nations, then we must truely learn to worship Him in spirit and in truth and not with mindless words or out of obligation, but from the very depths of our heart. We need to be like David. This is signifigant to me because I am teaching this week in our Bible college on Psalms.

Most Christians are liars. They sing worship songs saying, "Lord I give You my heart, I give You my soul. I live for You alone." When in actuality they are the ones in ccontrol of their heart and soul and are far from living for the Lord alone.

As Romans 12:1 says we truely need to be a living sacrifice unto the Lord which is our service of worship unto Him.

During worship I was finding it kind of hard to focus, and then suddenly with my spirit I saw dung appear before me. I almost completely dismissed it. Then I was like "wait a second Lord. Are You trying to say that our worship is like dung before You?" I was shocked, but I culd sense that it was true

Guilty...right here. It's no excuse that I cannot give God my undivided attention at all times, especially in the fact that I am saying what I am saying to Him, "Lord, I give you my heart..." The dilimna is that we have a leader who sings anything, based on err..I don't know what. I think he takes requests from the people, I'm serious, because he sings songs that are indicative of the "old" way. I noticed that prior to this,we rarely sang songs like that, unless promted by the Lord, and not because we were not singing what they liked...actually we didn't care, because that particular arena (sorry to describing it like that, but it has been a serious war going on) the concern was that the Lord was saintified in His temple, not what "made" the people participate. I am definately guilty of loosing this focus, and allowing the hardness of the hearts and the vexation hinder me from true worship...ALways. The people at times will show their disapproval by not budging, but just as when I opened my mouth, and He spoke through, and certainly His presence was with me, I know that if I just worship Him, and not focus on the people God will penetrate the hearts.

We just have fun singing the song as if it is a concert and in the end make our selves feel good, thinking that we actually achieved something when God was not truely lifted up.

It is so easy to gage success by the response of the people or by how well the song "went over", but that which men highly esteem is an abomination to God. During the "revival" leadership went out and got musicians and singers for the appearance. These musicians were so difficult to work with because of different attitudes and spirits, that when I saw one, I had to regain composure, I was outdone because I know...and being expected to play anyway? The music was "powerfull"(powerfully loud that is), the singing was "tight" (slang for altogether, etc.) and the people ate it up. They even replaced the house drummer with someone more "skilled", and that bothered me, because in every case when I worked with a drummer for a season, we became meshed, like one spirit and one heart, and I would chose him over "skill" anyday (not to say, he's not that good, he is...but he has a reverance for God and for the things of the Spirit).

And the Lord revealed to me that if we expect to reach our potential in Him and bring revival to the nations, then we must truely learn to worship Him in spirit and in truth and not with mindless words or out of obligation, but from the very depths of our heart. We need to be like David.

This was worth repeating. This is so crucial. If there is one instument, if there are none.. why are we so depandant on the outward show? We're like John, the voice crying out in the wilderness...or we have to be. He did not followe protocol, and I think this is one of the biggest revival killlers. Watching the clock, make sure the people are...,music is an itegral part of urban ministry, make sure it's like this; but with the absence of spirit and in truth...IT IS NOT WORSHIP!!! I just marvelled how when the music did it's thing, the people were estatic. It's like being conditioned or something. I didn't feel a thing, and i could even fake it, but in my heart going Lord, reveal yourself, Lord, Your will, Lord, Your people...

so much 2 say....

FROM A W Tozer...

July 20\tThe Church: The Dry Rot of Nonexpectation

"...but we will give ourselves continually to prayer and to the ministry of the word."...Then the word of God spread, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.
--Acts 6:4,7

The church is afflicted by dry rot. This is best explained when the psychology of nonexpectation takes over and spiritual rigidity sets in, which is an inability to visualize anything better, a lack of desire for improvement.

There are many who respond by arguing, "I know lots of evangelical churches that would like to grow, and they do their best to get the crowds in. They want to grow and have contests to make their Sunday school larger." That is true, but they are trying to get people to come and share their rut. They want people to help them celebrate the rote and finally join in the rot. Because the Holy Spirit is not given a chance to work in our services, nobody is repenting, nobody is seeking God, nobody is spending a day in quiet waiting on God with open Bible seeking to mend his or her ways. Nobody is doing it-- we just want more people. But more people for what? More people to come and repeat our dead services without feeling, without meaning, without wonder, without surprise? More people to join us in the bondage to the rote? For the most part, spiritual rigidity that cannot bend is too weak to know just how weak it is. Rut, Rot or
Revival: The Condition of the Church, 8,9.

"Lord, not more people, but more of You. Let me wait upon You, keep me faithful, send Your Holy Spirit. If You then send growth as well, I'll thank You and see it as an added blessing. Amen."

Especially when leading worship, when we go into Worship with an air of Expectancy that we are about to be Worshipping our God, in the presence of our Lord, and we have an attitude of Gratitude for all that that relationship entails, we will worship.

Anything else and we are not prepared for His presence. We cannot focus on another's pursuit of excellence for excellence's or perfection's sake or to focus on the minor distraction that will inevitable come our way, we must keep our minds and our hearts focused JESUS CHRIST.

This is where the visiting evangelist observed the spiritual warfare of the conflict but NONE4ME, the shining light of your focussed Worship of Christ shown through all the fog of personal conceit.

Stay prayed up and strong!

If I haven't already, I want to thank all the you who have responded thus far, as I am encouraged by saints all over the world. Truly amazing. The Lord by glorified.

This one thing I know, I carry a burden. The burden for the things of God. I didn't give myself that, the Lord has birth that in me and I can't shake if I wanted to (though I had tried). I say this just in case I have come off as "right there" as far a the things of God. I miss it so often, carrying so much a weight of His knowledge, when I do lay hold, it's more that I can handle. Again when I spoke, the power of God was so, that I wanted to fall face down; wasn't in a worship service, it was just in a meeting with hard hearts, but if God is moving like that what more is required of me.

I just want to stay there, but I am greived still with what still is two lives that has to become one in Him. I was on my way to church, yesterday, and I just felt I needed to zone in because I would be playing that night, but what occurred to me was that why would I wait until it's "vital" to pray, when it's always vital. I had to say, Lord not just about the meeting, Lord cleanse me now, have Your way right now, not 10 minutes from now. It just shows how quickly I can get so far from Him.

In that same service, we were about to dismiss, and I could finally get some rest, when the Pastor called and asked the members to stay over to receive the fellowship who had come from Texas and New Orleans to fellowship. It's already 10pm and immediately I'm fighting in my flesh, can't hardly concentrate for wondering how long it would take, one for them to get there, and then how long then would service go on. This going on, oh the selfishness. The pastor had said the people were discouraged so it was a leap of action required - right then and there. Sometimes theres no time to be compassed about with so much baggage, but now I see a need for more readiness, in season and out of season.

The entire congregation had the call to come out of the comfort zone, and begin to intercede as the people were making there way to the service. The result- burdens were lifted, people were free, and the focuse returned to God, but I'm still concerned about the little leaven in me that was hindrance in my staying focused on the things of God.

...I literally had to queeze this post out. It took basically all day, in and out but I just feel a need to continue to share is this thing. Ministry of music is great, Ministry in the Spirit, that is beyond words. May it always be ministry of this kind (Isa 61, Lk 4:18)

Amen... truly great things happen for the Lord when we get out of His way! He supplies us the power and the mercy that His children need... all we need to do is let Him work through us.

Dear One, do not worry too much about the "leven"...realize that it will never go away totally and it will be something we all struggle with until we go home! Be prepared at all times and in all ways to present the gospel...an God's love.

When we allow the Holy Spirit to take over in our Singing, Music, and in preaching of the Word, this is when souls are saved.
God will not give His Glory to man.

May He continuly fill you with Himself.

God Bless you for being a servant.
Nellie

"I know lots of evangelical churches that would like to grow, and they do their best to get the crowds in. They want to grow and have contests to make their Sunday school larger."

This made me think of something. I know of a church that is offering a monetary prize to the member who can bring in the most visitors over the course of a month. I know this because a member has already shamelessly invited me. She went and asked her ex-husband and his family (who are very involved in their own church - the husband is an elder, his wife a children's church teacher) to come so she can win the prize. And he and his whole family went along with it! Then she asked me to come and bring my wife. I told her that we would have no part in it. She seemed genuinely surprised (though I wasn't, for I don't think she's born-again). I told her that what her church was doing was wrong - very wrong, and her pastor should be ashamed.

She argued that they were just trying to get people to come into church between the holidays. Just a fun competition. But you could see they were after the money (which was a rather large sum, I understand, like $500).

Brethren, this is just another reason go bemoan the state of North American Churchianity. The glory has departed, there's no fear, no awful trembling, no holy reverence for the integrity of God's church. We've got flea markets in the sanctuaries, raffles and bake sales. And now this stupid thing. That pastor ought to be rebuked. How can someone who is supposedly born-again participate in something like this? How can a pastor announce a "bring-em-in-for-money-scheme" like this from God's pulpit?