Gays and Kerry's Campaign.....

Wow! I guess I'm a "jonnhy-come-lately" on this one, but my heart breaks when I see saints succumb to the seductive allure of politics, and standing divided on "issues".
In regard to political tactics, they're just that..wo/men using controversial subjects to stir the pot and incite people to jump into divided and opposing camps...when their real motives and power and material gain and have little to do, if any at all, with real love for the people involved. Those who use such tactics have another agenda. And we know that a house divided aginst itself cannot stand..division is NOT of God. The two most common issues used by politicians to cause people to stumble on are abortion and homosexuality.

Hitler politicized these "issues" through the German Churches during his rise to power in the 1930's...sound familiar? And the people sent to the death camps were Jews, Gays, Blacks, non-ethnic Germans, Jehovah's Witnesses, retarded people, dissenters and non-conformists of any kind including saints such as Corrie Ten Boom. Sadly, most of the German Churches fell asleep under Hitler as their pulpit messages became a government propoganda arm, and Hitler replaced religious-themed Holidays into Nazi Nationalism Days and demanded that churches preach this way or face the death camps (those who opposed this were ranked among the dissenters, and were few in number compared with the number who "went along with the rest, and went along to get along.")
If you experience a politician "preaching" supposed "morality" concerns under the cloak of religious motivation, then it is time to turn your ear, as well should you if your pulpit minister is preaching that you should vote a certain way, right or left, as if it were a heaven or hell issue, it's time to ask the Lord to find a new church. Religion and politics, mixed, always causes people to be persecuted unjustly in the name of God, and make the cause of God's salvific will to lose ground and credibility. God tells the Jewish people in the Old Testament that because of their gross misbehavior while bearing the responsibility to carry His Name, caused His Name slander by unbelievers. How much more true is this today by the misapplication of politicized religion and "Religious" Politics!
The cause of separation of church/state and church from hate is Biblical in every way. First,
we live in a society governed by a nonpartisan constitution written to protect all citizens equally. Gays, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Wiccans, Christians, Sikhs and many other groups make up America, and all are equal under civil law. The only time in history when Divine Will
expressly ruled a God-State, as it were, was with Old-Testament Israel, through which God produced Messiah and the oracles of God in the Spirit. After Calvary, we have been under His grace, in the Spirit. Jesus said, "My kingdom is NOT of this world", and "the kingdom of heaven is WITHIN you", and Peter the Apostle told the crowd on Pentecost in Acts 2, that the promise of the Spirit is for as many as are afar off [ahead yet in time] and for as many as the Lord God shall call to be His own. This is a door open that no person can control, as if that were even possible.
No one can be excluded by any other earthly person's say-so. If we are in the Spirit, then we should not be seeking to gain political control and clout, but we should have our eyes on Christ and in seeking to save the lost. THAT should be our only concern in this world.
With regard to homosexuals, I know gay and lesbian people that have the Spirit of God in their lives. I have seen people healed of life-threatening diseases and distress, addictions, but they are still homosexual, as they
were created. That may be hard for some to accept, but if you really love the Lord, ask Him to show you. I couldn't prove that even if I wanted to, but God says He is no respector of persons and that He is love. And I have witnessed
this for myself in the lives of these GLBT Christians that I have been to blessed to come to know and see my Savior in. Far be it from me to call them unclean when God has cleansed them from their sins and filled them with His Spirit. I will not let myself be found fighting against the Lord on this, He is Sovereign!!

In Him,

Ray G.

'I have seen people healed of life-threatening diseases and distress, addictions, but they are still homosexual, as they were created.'

Some men are predisposed to become alcoholics. Others are predisposed towards adultery. Others gluttony, and still other things affect others. It is the same with homosexuality. They're predisposed, not predestined. It is not an excuse to disobey God, to say that they are particularily tempted in one area.

A person may honestly be more predisposed towards one form of sin than another, but that doesn't mean that God created them to sin against him. It means they'll have a battle with sin in that area more than another person might. But it's still sin.

Now, you can't judge a person's salvation off of their sin. Sanctification is a progressive work. But as 1 Peter shows us, if they're confronted with their sin and refuse to turn away from it, that shows us that they're not growing in and obeying the Lord.

rayg4 wrote:
If you experience a politician "preaching" supposed "morality" concerns under the cloak of religious motivation, then it is time to turn your ear, as well should you if your pulpit minister is preaching that you should vote a certain way, right or left, as if it were a heaven or hell issue, it's time to ask the Lord to find a new church. Religion and politics, mixed, always causes people to be persecuted unjustly in the name of God, and make the cause of God's salvific will to lose ground and credibility.

Sounds like a pretty worldly viewpoint to me.

The fact is that a person's religious outlook, if they really believe it, will affect their worldview. It's the job of a pastor to be a shepherd to his flock, and a large part of that is bringing out what the Word of God says regarding the world, and how we should act in it.

The above quoted statement makes sense if you believe that there is relative truth. If no particular religion is more right than another. To be short, if you have no faith in our Lord Jesus as God and Savior.

Now, there are pastors that manipulate their congragations to get their own personal agenda done. That's why we practice the judgment and discernment that Jesus tells us to in John 7. Politicians will do the same thing as these twisted pastors. The Holy Spirit is given to us largely for this discernment. But if God isn't first in your life, you won't have that gift.