Balancing Truth and Love

I have been drinking in the truth on this site for several months now and it has been amazing for my walk and ministry (I'm a worship leader in the United Methodist Church.) Thank you Lord for providing this for your people! I just listened this:

http://64.34.176.235/sermons/SID4451.mp3

It is a deeply personal and humble message from Albert Zehr on letting go of condemnation and judgment to embrace people in love. He maintains that this is Christ's work in us . . . let Him be the head of His body.

I must say that it has convicted me of a trap that I seem to find myself in lately . . . that of possibly expecting too much from my fellow brothers and sisters. The question emerges, in the pusuit of renewal and revival, how do we balance the "obvious" truth with the often "elusive" love?

As many of you know the Methodist church is struggling with many issues that can easily foster a condemning spirit in some of it's more passionate members. I number myself among these and am planning on joining the renewing movement called "The Confessing Movement."

I am a young worship leader who works very closely with a slighty younger pastor. We are both called for this work, but wrestling with differences over the emphasis that should be placed on the dispensing of truth and love, particularly in ministry.

I've thought of leaving the Methodist church, but the Lord has not given me a green light. Moreover, the deeper I get into Wesley and the origins of Methodism, I am convinced that to leave may be to abandon something God is waiting to restore.

So for the experienced out there . . . please share with me your personal struggles (successes and failures) of hitting the "truth/love" balance.

I just finished Ravenhill's "Why revival Tarries" and it was awesome!! I mean it said so much of what I feel and know to be the Truth and I soaked in every word, yet there is something about it that just seems to close to my own fallen nature of combativeness. It's like I "like it" more than I should. Do you know the feeling?

In a way, it seems to want of humility. And I really don't want to say that . . . but there is just something there that doesn't sit right with every part of my spirit. It is interesting that the Lord always puts some other "word" or experience in my path to seemingly "check" or offset the demands of Truth with the grace of love. Today it was Albert Zehr's message.

Your thoughts and prayers would be greatly appreciated.

Blessings,
Mike

I just finished Ravenhill's "Why revival Tarries" and it was awesome!! I mean it said so much of what I feel and know to be the Truth and I soaked in every word, yet there is something about it that just seems to close to my own fallen nature of combativeness. It's like I "like it" more than I should. Do you know the feeling?

Great candor there brother. It is kind of the "Rah!" "Rah!" "Yea!" "Yea!" aspect that can catch us off guard, the 'trick' if you will is to take it personaly first... Something about Len that he rarely gave much of a 'wiggle' as Chambers would put it. Recall a message where he was pretty well lighting up on some matters of the church (lack of revival, I believe) and sensing this similar response, he turned tail and stated ... "I am talking about [i]you[/i]"

Ouch.

Definetly the balance in these things.

Thanks Mike.

I guess the reason I would go "rah" "rah" is mainly because Ravenhill is validating very strongly something in my spirit that says my church is heading down the wrong road. For me to hold this view as a minority viewpoint in my church makes ministry very difficult at times . . . "only the sick need a doctor" (add irony here!) So when someone else confirms this, it is exciting.

Now is it here that you are saying be careful to apply this to yourself first? (i.e. "I am talking about you!")

Are you saying that, provided one seemingly meets the standard themselves (for holiness, prayer, "unction," etc.) they should judge others by that standard? ("removing the plank in your own eye so you can then help remove the speck in your brother's eye")

I guess I'm wondering where true Love comes in. The analogy of the burning house is often used here . . . "if you really loved your neighbor, wouldn't you tell them that their house is ablaze?" This is to justify that the "loving" thing to do is to be truthful and spare their lives. But in what way can we be said to act out of love?

For instance (to carry the analogy further) there is a big difference in the real motivations behind telling someone "their house is on fire." I can imagine a loved one forcibly removing their relative from the house with dauntless compassion. I can also picture a fireman very professionally (and dispassionately) "rescuing" the "victim." Can the fireman really claim he is acting from love (or duty?)

And sadly, there may exist a 3rd group who will alert those in danger, but, if they are honest, kind of like watching the house burn ("they had it coming"). So they are really just being "humane" rather than "loving." Which is to say they wouldn't want to live with the guilt of having NOT said anything, so they say it on that ground.

How does one know then if "love" is really motivating their actions? Often we cannot display the fruits of the Spirit, even if we are being truthful.

Sometimes (being honestly) with certain people, I feel like I'm in the third group and I don't like that.

I was studying Finney's Memoirs recently and read that, when he was young, he had great disagreement and struggle with his theology teacher (an old-school Presbyterian.) Writing his recollections down very late in life, he recalled instance after instance of all of the man's personal shortcomings . . . he railed against his theology, training, methods, and even his "calling."

Likewise, Mr. Gale was embarrassed by Finney. After seeing his pupil's first sermon delivery, He said, "I shall be very shamed to have it known that you studied theology with me."

So it was against page after page of this that Finney quickly added in something that shocked me. "Let not the reader from anything I have said suppose that I did not love Mr. Gale, and highly respect him. I did both." What???

He said it, but it just seems so incongruous with all that he had told us before. I was then left to wonder, in what way did Finney "love" Mr. Gale (and highly respect him?)

. . . and in what way do I love those I disagree with.

Mike

...possibly expecting too much from my fellow brothers and sisters. The question emerges, in the pusuit of renewal and revival, how do we balance the "obvious" truth with the often "elusive" love?

As usual I am busy introspecting over these questions as well.

One thing I submit here is that the world 'balance' may be misinformative to our conversation. I find we too often set up truth and love against each other, like Christian yin and yang, as if they are opposing forces. If we read the old writers of the faith, they held both vitures with singular high esteem. ...no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother. That is to say, God's people can never possess too much truth or too much love all at the same time.

Ever notice how the fire of holiness is often portrayed as the opposite of love? This is the devil's distortion of both holiness and love. Holiness is described by the Beatitudes. Holiness is captured by John when he says Whoever loves his brother remains in the light, and there is nothing in him to cause a fall. The true opposite of love is not hate for sin, but cold indifference and lack of care for anything but one's own impulse.

For me, the real culprit is that love is viewed as a counterbalance to truth, when in reality it is the embodiment of it! When Godly love is absent we can not see the truth about God's worthiness to be glorified. Without love for His laws and ways, we cannot grasp our pitiful need for his salvation, and certainly lack the required inner life that gives us the authority to preach righteousness. Without Godly love we cannot estimate the true corruption of our own souls and emphathize with Christ's heart for other members of the body.

Hatred is the ubiquitous stench of our world. Like many smells, if we live with them too long we soon forget we have an odor as well.

Last week I had a real struggle with a business client. One afternoon I fretted anxiously what kind of Old Testament prayer I should be calling down from heaven to smite my enemy.;-) Yet I found my anger was shutting the door to my prayers...I could sense I was no longer abiding in dear Jesus. How settled I felt when I let my anger go and came before His grace with little agenda but to stay close to Him.

And it was at that point I felt He told me what to do...He told me to treat my client as I would Him! (Not in worship but in service.) Now I don't think there is any business strategy in this, but I find there is fellowship with Jesus in it. Of course I still face the unpleasant mechanics of this piece of business, spending time and labor in ways that peturb and offend me. I trust God can use things that seem unprofitable to us to sanctify us.

Now if I am to treat the 'least of these' in the world to a love I often reserve for God, how much more should I treat the saints of His church!

As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of Faith

Children, let us love not in word or speech but in deed and truth. Now this is how we shall know that we belong to the truth and reassure our hearts before him

God help me abide in the fullness of Christ's love, and never attempt to speak your 'truth' without it.:-)

MC

My [i]short[/i] opinion is that "balance" is a misleading term; Love and truth are not to be balanced, but we are to speak 100% truth in 100% love. It's not either or, it's both.

Adam

In a way, it seems to want of humility. And I really don't want to say that . . . but there is just something there that doesn't sit right with every part of my spirit.

More recently, while listening to a sermon of his (for the second time) I sensed something that I did not catch earlier, while I was too busy being glad to “meet” someone who empathized with my concern over the condition of the church. My new impression, however, was different than yours. I sensed that he was deeply grieving over a revival that hadn’t happened. I wondered if there wasn’t a touch of anger and frustration underneath. I felt a need to erect a bit of a “wall”, and not let myself feel guilt and shame for failing the church. (I have a tendency to do that whenever anything is going wrong) That’s not to say that I did not contribute my fair share to the demise; after all, I was steeped in hypocrisy. Nor am I discounting him in any way. I just point out the fact that we, as fellow humans, are vulnerable, and all subjectively affected by our experiences. And that spills over.

seems too close to my own fallen nature of combativeness. It's like I "like it" more than I should. Do you know the feeling?

In a sense Ravenhill is risky. But we would never want to leave him out of the picture, as he is vital. But he is only part of the picture. We need the other parts of the picture, or we will lean to far to one side.

It is interesting that the Lord always puts some other "word" or experience in my path to seemingly "check" or offset the demands of Truth with the grace of love. Today it was Albert Zehr's message.

I listened to Albert Zehr’s sermon…..

Here is a pastor who wept. I too wept with him. How could I not? Much of what he said struck a deep chord within me – stuff we never talk about. I can relate to his grief over his past inability to release others to God to LET GO.. I can relate to his pain over his daughter. I know how hard it is. I used to fear that letting go was being permissive, or even lazy. Why, that could ruin the child - and that would make me look bad. (now there’s the real motive behind controlling)

Albert Zehr, in a most tender way, hits a direct blow on our tendency to control others by trying to force our belief and convictions on them – thinking we are helping God. I realize that this malady must be broken in us or we will always get in God’s way, and be a hindrance to the process of revival in the lives of our loved ones, our church-mates, and our society. Zehr helped me see that when I truly love another, I will always free him or her from myself. I will let him have his own journey, and leave him in God’s hands.

Thanks for bringing balance – or rather, thanks for helping to make the picture more complete.

Diane

Ah, what a [i]rich[/i] thread this has become!

You all have done well here giving expression and find I could have done a better job or perhaps put it differently;

My short opinion is that "balance" is a misleading term; Love and truth are not to be balanced, but we are to speak 100% truth in 100% love. It's not either or, it's both.

Much better stated, and that [i]is[/i] balance! Yes?

For me, the real culprit is that love is viewed as a counterbalance to truth, when in reality it is the embodiment of it!

Thanks for the correction. Sometimes I can be thinking of one thing and expressing another. Recall from earlier days here when first coming upon WRT and the duel aspects of "[i]Yeah, me too![/i]" as well as a sense of how seemingly [i]harsh[/i] it all seemed.. At that time a few of us were talking about 'balancing' the difficulty of a 'hard word' with that a bit more ...pleasant(?)
Think that is more where I was heading. But really, this I thought epitomized it perfectly...

I was studying Finney's Memoirs recently and read that, when he was young, he had great disagreement and struggle with his theology teacher (an old-school Presbyterian.) Writing his recollections down very late in life, he recalled instance after instance of all of the man's personal shortcomings . . . he railed against his theology, training, methods, and even his "calling."

Likewise, Mr. Gale was embarrassed by Finney. After seeing his pupil's first sermon delivery, He said, "I shall be very shamed to have it known that you studied theology with me."

So it was against page after page of this that Finney quickly added in something that shocked me. "Let not the reader from anything I have said suppose that I did not love Mr. Gale, and highly respect him. I did both." What???

He said it, but it just seems so incongruous with all that he had told us before. I was then left to wonder, in what way did Finney "love" Mr. Gale (and highly respect him?)

Exactly as he did. It is a great misconception that traverses across even many a page here. It comes back to either taking or giving it 'personally'. We should fear nothing of our own Brethren nor should it be something where we are compromising anything, the 'walking on egg shells' principle. At the same time there needs be no unduly, unruly attacks on ones character ... The plank in ones own eye is not just a quick check and run; ("I am O.K., I have this right, everyone else is ...") but having come to a place where you realize truly, experientially, just how far short we all are, not as a nice sentiment, but in real time reality. It tends to flaten everything out. I think it leads right on to this next thought;

I can relate to his grief over his past inability to release others to God to LET GO.. I can relate to his pain over his daughter. I know how hard it is. I used to fear that letting go was being permissive, or even lazy. Why, that could ruin the child - and that would make me look bad. (now there’s the real motive behind controlling)

Albert Zehr, in a most tender way, hits a direct blow on our tendency to control others by trying to force our belief and convictions on them – thinking we are helping God. I realize that this malady must be broken in us or we will always get in God’s way, and be a hindrance to the process of revival in the lives of our loved ones, our church-mates, and our society. Zehr helped me see that when I truly love another, I will always free him or her from myself. I will let him have his own journey, and leave him in God’s hands.

This is so very succinct Diane. Slowly this has become a realization, it still has it's tentacle's that reach out and grab back at it, but at least in one case this is something I recognized had to be relinquished. Let me clarify that. By one case I do only mean by way of heart felt ... close to home and therefore ... a daily practicing of. Can see bit's of the results already, for myself a whole lot of excess baggage is shed, a whole different perspective on trusting God is required and to the unnamed person ... Let's just say no longer is there even the subtle manipulation expressed via body language, well, most of the time, still have what Compton termed earlier of that OT mentality for a lack of a better description, wanting to raise it's ire and want of a pound of flesh. Even that gets checked and ... mmmm, there are times when the rationalization and 'justification' go round and round in the ol melon making all kinds of logical, righteous sense and yet the Lord says ...

No.

Will have to listen to this message, thanks for bringing it up Mike and Diane, as well as this discussion.

I guess the term "balance" isn't the best way to express the "doctrinal" connectivity of truth and love, but I think that it is accurate "practically" given the task of living together and "bearing" with one another. What I mean by this is that "love" doesn't exist in a relational vacuum. Even if I am able determine in my spirit that I am acting from love by speaking the truth at a given moment, it may, however, still prove to be highly offensive and difficult for the person on the other end.

Now I could hold the high ground and maintain my "offensive" reproof was indeed the loving thing to do and that the concerned party will someday come to realize it as they grow in grace, but in the meantime I have strained a real relationship in the Body . . . possible winning a battle to lose the war. An idealized, theoretical love fails here. Isn't observable "love" what Jesus is talking about in John 13:35:

"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

It is in this messy relational sense that I mean "balancing" truth and love . . . I think it is a matter of timing and intensity in our daily relationships.

If I could live my life expressing 100% truth in 100% love, concurrently, wouldn't that make me divine?

Hopefully this will all be easier when we get to heaven :)

If I could live my life expressing 100% truth in 100% love, concurrently, wouldn't that make me divine?

Maybe it's a wrong approach. I do wonder if sometimes an over analysis cause's paralysis. I think we all do it to some extent. We do ask very often, "how" which can lead to all kinds of predetermined thinking, creating different scenarios, "what if" type scenarios. Or "in this situation, do thus and so" something often too pragmatic and really what a lot of our day presents as Christian 'principles', a verse for every situation.

Maybe a better word for 'balance' is 'blended', where the dichotomy is unnoticeable and ... natural (spiritually speaking). Oswald Chambers puts a lot of emphasis on this; [i]The culture of the Christian life is to learn to be carefully careless over everything saving our relationship to God[/i]

It is in this messy relational sense that I mean "balancing" truth and love . . . I think it is a matter of timing and intensity in our daily relationships.

You are getting somewhere here, [i]a matter of timing[/i], a matter of being always prayerful (without ceasing) and keeping one's thought's attentive to the Lord's still small voice in that great give and take that is ours.

Feeling too much like Chatty Kathy these days. :-?

...I think it is a matter of timing and intensity in our daily relationships.

I can understand this 'rendering' of the issue. Also I appreciated Mike's use of the word 'blending' because at least we're not zig zagging between a false dichotomy in our minds!

What I mean by this is that "love" doesn't exist in a relational vacuum.

Amen. I must say brother you demonstrate an understanding of this with your original burden...

Moreover, the deeper I get into Wesley and the origins of Methodism, I am convinced that to leave may be to abandon something God is waiting to restore.

What a simple and unassuming manifestation of what Godly love looks like in relationship to people. Your testimony doesn't rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

For what it's worth, I find your burden very encouraging news for the Methodists. Sometimes we may struggle to articulate the correct expression of Christ in words, but nevertheless He is forming in us!

...and Mike said

Feeling too much like Chatty Kathy these days.

I always welcome your posts brother!

MC

Even if I am able determine in my spirit that I am acting from love by speaking the truth at a given moment, it may, however, still prove to be highly offensive and difficult for the person on the other end.

Now I could hold the high ground and maintain my "offensive" reproof was indeed the loving thing to do and that the concerned party will someday come to realize it as they grow in grace, but in the meantime I have strained a real relationship in the Body . . . possible winning a battle to lose the war. An idealized, theoretical love fails here. Isn't observable "love" what Jesus is talking about in John 13:35:

"By this all men will know you are my disciples, if you love one another."

These thoughts cut to the core. You know, I think that many times our attempts to love are really attempts to appease our own conscience – to gain righteousness for ourselves. Really, we are at the center. We have failed to express observable love, and have actually diminished our credibility and God’s credibility.

We may believe that we are acting in love when we assert ourselves over another to take out a “speck” that they didn’t ask us to remove. We may feel we are loving when we warn others of hell and damnation. But in doing so, we may also have lost ground with them, or as you say, we have lost the war. And so, really, we come across as a resounding gong and clanging cymbal – not only to others, but to God also.

It is in this messy relational sense that I mean "balancing" truth and love . .

Diane

These thoughts cut to the core. You know, I think that many times our attempts to love are really attempts to appease our own conscience – to gain righteousness for ourselves. Really, we are at the center. We have failed to express observable love, and have actually diminished our credibility and God’s credibility.

Diane and co.,

Let's pursue this . . . this is what I was wanting this thread to be about :)

How do you personally deal with preventing the above (condemnation) when you also feel compelled to speak out on something that may cause division. What sequence does God take you through in your spirit? Preparation? Timing? Tone?

Personal stories here would, I think, be as good or better than "the ideal" answer.

Thanks,
Mike

Okay, I’ll run with this, but via the "ideal" first, I'm afraid:

I’m asking myself, “So how do I bash down for good my predisposition to offer tainted love?” Oh, I know the solution all right. After all Scripture shouts it from cover to cover: God loves me! God has forgiven my sins! Christ’s sacrifice was the perfect atonement! My guilt is removed! It is finished!

Yet this is all too good to be true. Surely not, Lord! Depart from me for I am a sinner! And so at times I discover myself struggling to rest in the love of Christ - though less and less as the years go by. (I used to be a walking guilt-trip). I suspect that remnants of past baggage still drag behind me.

I realize that to the extent that I am reluctant to fully let God love and forgive me, I will put my trust in myself to appease my guilt. And so my love offerings are tainted with a selfish motive.

Wouldn’t it be great if King David could come around and add to this discussion? As far as I’m concerned, he “got it”.

David said, “You desire TRUTH in the inner parts” - - truth, in this sense meaning: “honesty about oneself”.

David knew that what was in him was utter iniquity, and he craved God’s solution: “Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean (!) Wash me and I will be whiter than snow (!) “etc

David KNEW that the Lord’s redemptive forgiveness was the source of true untainted and recognizable love - a love that was effective:

“THEN I will teach transgressors your ways
and sinners will turn back to you….
THEN there will be righteous sacrifices…. ”
From Ps 51

“And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love,
may have power together with all the saints,
to grasp how wide and long,
and high and deep is the love of God,
and to know this love that surpasses knowledge
that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.” Eph. 3:17

(PS If anyone wishes to pray for me, may this be the prayer)

I’ll come back to your questions later with examples – there are lots.

How do you personally deal with preventing the above (condemnation) when you also feel compelled to speak out on something that may cause division. What sequence does God take you through in your spirit? Preparation? Timing? Tone?

Diane

Well..., someone pulled the string again ...

I must say I just absolutely [i]love[/i] the way this is going. I too echo Compton's sentiment of your (Mike, strange gathering of us here...) unassuming disposition, how wonderfully refreshing!

Won't taint Diane's thoughts here with comment other than to say ... [i]me too[/i] and amen.

What sequence does God take you through in your spirit? Preparation? Timing? Tone?

Will go way out on the limb here ... By and large and with all the exceptional clauses of the Lord not contradicting Himself evident... It almost always is the [i]opposite[/i] of what I may think in any given moment. Touched a bit earlier on it ... As Diane alluded to, silence is far more powerful than we may have ever given a great deal of thought to, the way she expressed it...

I wonder if this is the essence of Paul’s directions to wives of unsaved husbands or to women in church – to be silent. There may be a universal principle here: There are times when withholding the truth you know is actually the more loving thing to do in the long run; and instead, you let your godly behavior do the talking.

[i]Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always [b]those things that please him.[/b][/i] Joh 8:28,29

[i]For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, [b]what I should say, and what I should speak[/b].[/i] Joh 12:49

Going back to the example of [i]opposites[/i], it is still a challenge, as you mentioned or perhaps alluded, there is an instinct that can over ride and stop us short because our self interest is at stake and therefore our concern returns back on it's own head ... we don't like 'rejection' or embarrassment or humility, make that being humilated... So we throw up a guard and are in the midst of the diabolical...

[i]For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? For if I were still pleasing men, I wouldn't be a servant of Christ.[/i] Gal 1:10

The fear of man ... Such a strange and rather silly notion, yet ...

Little off track here. The opposites that I mean are similar to the reactions Compton made earlier about business associates (know a bit of that as well brother ... a great, daily challenge).

Biting your tongue.

Another: "[i]If I don't say something about this right now then ______ will never 'get it', won't feel the guilt they should be experiencing....etc. etc. etc.[/i]

That would be the process. And generally speaking, that inward voice (The Holy Spirit) responds;

Don't do it.

Other times it is right back on the fear of man and the sense of [i]'I don't really [u]feel[/u]
like speaking right now, this will cause a hurt and....[/i]'

Speak.

Randomly, one of the things that I have found that is also a scriptural principle experienced...
To keep my mouth shut when I am fatigued or agitated, [i]be angry and sin not[/i].

Oh, there is a great deal of work to be done still.

There is an aspect to all this that I thought should be mentioned. One thing that I am brought back to when this type of situation arises concerns submission to authority.

I think many times the Lord allows these situations where we feel like we should speak out as a test to determine our brokenness before Him, especially for younger Christians. It's easy to consider ourselves more spiritual than others (even our elders) and think we have the right to speak out of that position. The Lord has shown me that I have no such right. Even Jesus submitted Himself to Mary and Joseph, He could have said "they aren't as spiritual as I am", but instead He submitted to them and ultimately to the Father's will.

This matter of submission to authority has been greatly impressed upon me of late, and not just with respect to elders in the church but also down to the usher who seats us and even out into the world, where we need to respect even the authority of a clerk in a convenience store. God is a God of order.

In Christ,

Ron

One thing that I am brought back to when this type of situation arises concerns submission to authority.

I hear you brother. I've been wrestling with this myself as part of the whole issue of renewal and how to achieve it. I read Watchman Nee's book "Spiritual Authority" last Fall (during the height of my disillusionment with the church leadership) and it was shockingly eye-opening (another YIELD sign from the Holy Spirit.) While I haven't processed all of what he claims, he maintains that to fail to recognize and submit to authority is essentially to operate by a Satanic principle. How's that for candor!

Heres a quote:

"We should not be occupied with right or wrong, good or evil; rather should we know who is the authority above us"

Of course, his view is extreme and leaves little room for movement in horrific situations like Nazi Germany.

Thanks for bringing this up. On a side note, I recently looked up every occasion and context of Jesus' use of the word "Faith." From these accounts, the theme of "recognizing and submitting to authority" was often one of the main differences between those whose faith he commended and those whose faith he disparaged.

This kind of ties in to what Diane was saying about needing to assert ourselves in a situation rather than let God do his work . . . could it be that we are actually displaying a failure of faith in God when we act in this way?

Mike

I wonder if this is the essence of Paul’s directions to wives of unsaved husbands or to women in church – to be silent. There may be a universal principle here: There are times when withholding the truth you know is actually the more loving thing to do in the long run; and instead, you let your godly behavior do the talking.

First off, what a delight to engage such thoughtful and pleasant people :) You don't find this everywhere!

I am getting confused though at exactly how many "Mike's" are in our conversattion!

Good observation above Diane . . . I was just thinking of Paul's sharp rebuke in 1 Corinthians concerning the man being immoral with his father's wife (5:1.) He states the truth and renders his reproof. Then he comes back in 2 Corinthians and tells them to "forgive and comfort him." (2:7) So it was an issue of timing and applying force, then forgiveness.

This is what I mean when I say "balance" . . . by the way, would the following analogy settle the internal semantic debate about the term "balance??" . . .

Consider a see-saw . . . it is one piece (Truth & Love united . . . yeah!) but sometimes we can lean into one too much, effectively suspending the other . . . the Truth maybe grounded solid while the love floats detached (or vice-versa)

Ok . . . that was my last attempt . . . I promise :)

Mike

This matter of submission to authority has been greatly impressed upon me of late, and not just with respect to elders in the church but also down to the usher who seats us and even out into the world, where we need to respect even the authority of a clerk in a convenience store.

I am getting confused though at exactly how many "Mike's" are in our conversation!

And a big welcome, newest Mike, to the richest fellowship in cyberspace. (IMHO):-D

MC (Mike)

“Show proper respect to everyone...
honor the king (WHAT!)” 1 Pet 2:17
“Love always protects”

Scriptures like these become even more important to me when I view people as damaged goods. Surely God has given such words to us in order to keep us from inflicting further damage, and to promote healing. I know that I’ve sometimes been like a bull in a china shop, clumsily damaging the delicate and valuable goods. Really, this behavior seems to be a cultural norm – especially in the way parents treat their delicate wee ones. ….There are so many charging bulls, so much controlling behaviors, so much wounding of the delicate spirit…

I value the Biblical cautions to women – to have a quiet spirit. Our modern world of women’s lib seems to produce assertive women, now climbing the man’s ladder, and even out-climbing them. Women have lost their quiet tenderness. We live in an age of absentee or weak fathers, leaving mothers to rule the roost alone. They may become controlling. Children sustain the damage – especially the boys. Years later these men become our church leaders. I don’t want to generalize, just point out that it is a very real problem, and a reason why we women can’t just boldly tell the “truth” like it is. There are barriers, and we may only make bigger barriers.

Thankfully God has put several of these kinds of men (damaged goods) across my path over the course of my life - I believe to tone me down. Here is an example:

I remember years ago being deeply troubled by my pastor who was acting like a bull in a china shop. So one day I asked the Lord what I could do about it. God said, “Minister to him”. I was shocked. I thought that HE was supposed to be the one ministering to me. That’s when I suddenly saw my self-centeredness in full color. Really, I had never cared two hoots about my pastor – except for what he should be doing for me. Really, he was a wounded man who had never forgiven his mother. He wasn’t open to any other “mother” trying to help him along. I had to learn to view him as a fellow human being who needed my respect.

Many, many times the Lord has literally shut my mouth when I was about to address an issue. God knew that it just wasn’t the right time, or maybe I wasn’t the right person. I trust God to put a check on me. He can certainly deal with people better than me.

Sometimes, he does indeed use me to speak into issues. Here is a unique example:

One Sunday I was sitting in the church kitchen watching the women prepare for a dinner. I was quite ill and weak at the time. Yet, suddenly I jumped up, walked directly to an older lady (who I knew only by name). I put my hands on her arms and firmly but warmly said, “My dear, you don’t need to be working in this kitchen. Now, go get a plate and some food, and go and sit down and enjoy the dinner.” She promptly followed my orders.

The other ladies were amazed. I discovered that Mrs. B had been controlling the kitchen for years, and alienating many. I didn't have a clue about this. One lady said, “ She’s not even supposed to be here today. She’s not on our team. But she always takes over. We’ve been trying to tell her, but she just gets offended, so now everyone is afraid to talk to her. You’re the first person she’s ever listened to.”

God has ways, doesn’t he?

Diane

Proverbs 27v5 'Open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed'.