Emergent Church

I received this email today from Jan Markell of Olive Tree Ministries.

August 8 - Will the "Emerging Church" Submerge Your Church?
The short answer is no if solid, Bible-believing Christians preach truth and stand on the Word of God. However, in today's world of apostasy, the stakes are higher and so are the casualties. The Emergent Church is not new, but it hid in the shadows until recently. I recently had this email:
Jan: When you first started talking about the Emergent Church I thought, sure, this is a California experience. I didn't have to worry. How wrong! In Michigan it is now everywhere!

When Pastor Bob DeWaay told me one and a half years ago that it was the next step beyond seeker-sensitive and worse than that, I thought, how is this possible? He was right. As a matter of fact, CBS News did a feature on it calling it a powerful new movement and the fastest-growing one in Christianity with up to 20 million participants. The clip is played on the broadcast from August 5 now posted on "radio archives" here: http://www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3/
When you really learn of all its goals and practices, this should send chills down your spine.

Roger Oakland, one of the best analysts of this movement, and Bob DeWaay, reported a lot of startling information on air. I have made my own conclusions here. The emphasis goes well beyond the Bible to extra-biblical paraphernalia, extrasensory images, sounds, smells, silence, darkness, icons, statues, rosary beads for Protestants, Yoga, contemplative prayer--all for a FULL SENSORY IMMERSION in the divine. Why are these things even necessary when the "old time religion" did well preaching a solid gospel with no bells and whistles? Why do we have to encounter God with our "senses"? He lives within us--that's sufficient. He's a prayer away, hardly dependent on candles and incense and icons. Why do Protestants have to draw on Catholic and Orthodox practices to "get closer to God"?

Try to pin these folks down as to their beliefs and be prepared for frustration and confusion. Pastor DeWaay related on air how frustrating his debate was with Emergent leader Doug Pagitt as Pagitt dodged every question making sure the Emergent Church would NOT be defined. My conclusion: It draws on many religions but is leading to the participation in the one world religion.

According to EC leader Brian McClaren, most anyone can follow Jesus including Buddhists and Hindus. He emphasizes "injustice, oppression, greed, and war." Finally, a major truth comes out: This is just the old social gospel. But his most troubling statement is that we need to ". . . emulate Roman Catholicism to become more mystical in our reverence of God." Why did we have the Reformation, I ask? So that we could get far from Rome and closer to God! He has it backwards, as is his whole movement. The longing for the mystical will lead one to become a victim of every wind of doctrine!

As Roger Oakland states, this is not a revival but a return to darkness. It cannot be countered until Christians become better informed about it and when the darkened rooms, candles, and other touchy-feely services spring up in your church and you say something and demand a return to basic Bible doctrines and solid gospel preaching. These Emergent leaders are not "brave new voices." They are deceptive wolves devouring naive, usually young "sheeple," leading the Gen X-ers and Gen Y-ers down a path to further darkness. What will these youth "emerge" into? Confused, questioning young people with no solid grounding, believing in nothing and thus falling for everything.

I received this email from Australia today. It shows that our churches are in deep trouble but let's not end the thought there. God can still do a great thing in our churches; yet the Bible talks about the end-time apostasy. In II Thessalonians 2:3 it talks about the "falling away" in the end-times. Some translations call it the "great falling away" . . . in other words, no small thing. The writer states this:

Jan: Where I live in an area of the North Coast of New South Wales, Australia, every church is compromised, every church. To receive any good, sound Bible teaching, I have to rely on the internet and my Bible and the help of God's Holy Spirit.

Awaiting His return,
Jan Markell

There have been a few discussions here concerning the emergent church, they may help bring some more clarity and balance here...

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=10849&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]The Emergent Church 1[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=11383&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]The Emergent Church 2[/url]

In Christ,

Ron

I guess I'm a little behind huh? :-P

Have you actually listened to anything Jan has had to say? or are you basing your comments about her on this email I have shared?

I didn't post this to start a debate. I believe Jan Markell's ministry to be one of vital importance in a world full of deception. You can take or leave it, that is up to you.

Bartle wrote:

If I was to rent a storefront here in Chicago, get some folding chairs, put out tables rugs candles and invite other believers I know, to just tarry in prayer for the Lord, tarry in prayer for revival, no worship music, no churchianity, just a bunch of heart broken, hungry thirsty desperate followers of Jesus gathered in prayer, and I call it an "emergent church"...will Jan Markell call me a "deceptive wolf"?

If this would be all you would do, I would not suppose very many people would object except why do you need candles? Would the place not have any electricity to bring any illumination to diffuse the darkness in the room?

The objection people have to the emergant church is the incorporating of new age practices and pagan rituals into their worship. I do find it odd that these epople are busy supplanting God's directives with some of their own, borrowed from other 'religions'. This is idoltry, plain and simple.

Bartle, lest you get all bent out of shape with Christians calling the alarm over cults, you must remember Jesus words when he said in Matthew 24:23-25:
"23: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25: Behold, I have told you before.
26: Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not." The only way a devout person can be deceived is when he/she ignores the still small voice within and allows the impressive to supplant the 'still small voice' or, the Holy Spirit. Then you will be on a slippery slope to ruin and oblivious you are on it until it is too late!

Bartle, I would resent it a lot if a person knew somone is a false prophet and refused to warn me and allowed me to learn of this the hard way!

ginnyrose

...If I was to rent a storefront here in Chicago, get some folding chairs, put out tables rugs candles and invite other believers I know, to just tarry in prayer for the Lord, tarry in prayer for revival, no worship music, no churchianity, just a bunch of heart broken, hungry thirsty desperate followers of Jesus gathered in prayer, and I call it an "emergent church...

the problem with your example is that what you described is not the Emergent church in substance, only in form. Sure you have borrowed some of their orthopraxy, but you haven't mentioned their orthodoxy.

Certainly there is nothing wrong with using candles instead of fluorescent lights or plainchant instead of strumming guitar music in my opinion. In fact, these things may be more 'legitimate' then our modern baby boomer technologies. This appreciation for the ‘ancient paths’ is perhaps the single virtue of emergent Christianity...to recover certain beneficial practices that were lost to modernity.

However if you start telling Buddhists that Jesus simply wants them to be better Buddhists through Him, instead of repenting well then you really would be fully 'Emergent' and quite out of joint with the Churches ancient paths, as well as scripture. In this way, Emergent Christians, who meditate before their ancestor's crucifix, or sing their plainchant psalms, are actually betraying their ancestors beliefs who used these things to express a life and death commitment to Christ alone. In this way, Emergent 'open source' theology contradicts Jesus' unilateral theology because He claimed to be the only door, the only way.

Now I'm not a big fan of discernment ministries...in fact I think they are mostly self-styled vigilantes. However, the faith given to us by our fathers does have a distinctive shape and form...it has boundaries and limits. I’m not concerned so much about their mystical stylings…who cares if they light candles or some incense. I’m concerned about teaching a darkened mystical open-source deism, adorned with crucifixes and Christian icons, that negates true biblical faith in Jesus. Today, as in the early days of the Church there are sincere groups just outside the fringe boundaries of the ancient apostolic faith. As much as we hate conflict in the body, not everything that includes itself as Christian really is. That's not to say that these individuals aren't Christians...I certainly would not say that. In addition, I agree with many of their heartfelt complaints against our mega McChurches, but you can't form beliefs on just hearfelt complaints.

I know a church fellowship of dear brothers and sisters near where I live that calls themselves “emergent’…They create a coffee lounge atmosphere, with plenty of candles and Japanese lanterns. Yet, I see they are young and creative, sincere and humble saints who have a spiritual heart for the lost. Because of this, I wince when they happily refer to themselves as “Emergent”…because in point of fact they are not truly Emergent in their theology. They are simply styling their church to be more 'authentic', or at least different then their parents. But make no mistake...to them the Gospel is not up for negotiation. There willingness to declare a unilateral faith in Christ disqualifies them as a truly Emergent Church…but alas they prefer the name because they reject mainline expressions Christianity.

The problem is I agree with their delimma. I think Emergent critiques of mainstream Christianity are valid, and on a creative level I can appreciate the merits of using candles, or other ‘ancient’ art forms for creating less hyper, more contemplative and inviting atmospheres of worship. Yet in spite of their valid critiques, as well as creativity and sincerity, I think their post-modern theological response to the problems in the church is flawed.

MC

Compton you wrote :

Now I'm not a big fan of discernment ministries...in fact I think they are mostly self-styled vigilantes.

I agree with you completely and avoid them, however Jan Markell doesn't seem to be that way. I have suscribed to her ministry for over a year, and although I don't agree with her 100% about everything, she is pretty balanced.

I apologize if I sounded defensive, I reread and it did sound harsh. I understand your viewpoint about using candles and incense, and I don't think that used in the way you are suggesting is what she is objecting to. I do believe that there is deception in the churches today...take a look at the Episcopal church if you think there isn't. Our enemy is very tricky and if he can slip a lie in along with the Truth to deceive many he will.

God Bless you, Brother.

I hear ya Bartle. We are probably on the same page. I don't like it when a few people hijack a movement. I would love to learn I was over worried from my own limited exposure to this 'movement.' (If you can call it that.)

Recently someone observed humerously to me that the world of Celtic music is tricky. He pointed out that when he goes to buy an 'Irish' or 'Celtic' music CD, he has too listen to it first. This is because 'Celtic' music has come to mean too many things...Traditional, folk, new age, electronica, even rock.

Apparently the Emergent Church is alot like Celtic music. It's being marketed as the post-modern cure for all of modern Christianities flaws. If modern church is too modern, then post-modern is ancient. If modern church is too big, then post-modern is intimate. If modern church is too segregated, then post-modern is multi-cultural. Anythng that is offensive or dissapointing with the modern church, the post-modern church presumes to remedy.

I'm cool with all of those visions...just finding it all to be somewhat nebulous when you try to pin it down. I guess that's what makes it post-modern. ;-)

MC

Bartle,

I reread my post - the one you reacted to. I am still at a loss to know why you got so easily upset at my post or for that matter anyone elses' posts.

You took a dig at my age and the area I live in which is Mississippi. I would like to respond to that.

If you will live long enough someday you will get to be as old as I am. When I speak I speak what the Word says and how life has proven it to be true. You gain this insight by living a long time which is called experience.

I live in Mississippi because that is where the LORD has placed me. By birth and heritage I am a Hoosier!!!! Living in the south has great advantages. The southerners have a fantastic sense of humor - they have the ability to laugh at themselves which you will not find common in the north, least of all among the urbanites!

Now from my observation I think we southerners (Yes, I know Krispy, my grandparents were not born in the south so that would disqualitfy me as a southerner but the others do not know that!) could teach the Yankees (as people from from the north are called) a few things, so why do you not come down here to Mississippi and let us show you? Would you know males - white and black - in my community will open doors for me when we approach a door in a building? And they will say "madam" and "sir" when addressing an older person? Sir, people are polite here and that is what we are used to. Rudeness will get you nowhere.

Yes, I live in the south and am pleased with its social culture of gentleness - something which people in the north could rightly benefit from.

ginnyrose

PS: If you respond to this, I would like you to know I will not respond for at least a week: we plan to go, Lord Willing, on vacation tomorrow morning and be gone for some time. Tonight we are hosting two birthday parties: one for my 47 YO 'baby' brother and the other for our 2 YO grandson!
God bless.

Think we often just like labels period, at least as it means every item must have one. It's easier to coral everything and stick a target on it.

Really, the 'old time religion' is idolatry - anything which is animated by other spirits or orchestrated by Satan, despite his diminished power.

That is really saying the same thing isn't it? As you go on ... It is the meaning poured into the words that causes all the confusion. If this here on SermonIndex is construed as "Old time religion" I am all for it. "Old path's" doesn't necessarily mean anything more than well compacted ground once travelled. It's not 'old' really at all, only by disuse and being left forgotten.

When the meaning of old time religion is repentance, travailing prayer for others, honoring God with our lives, a moving of the Holy Spirit in our lives, etc. bring it on. This is the Old Paths we want to be on. However, when the meaning of old time religion becomes just some kind of form that is from the past, forget it.