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I don't have compassion. Why?

M
mikeness Aug 21, 2006

I am currently reading "Lectures on Revivals of Religion" and the third chapter as well as a lot of heart examination has lead me to believe that I do not have compassion on God or anyone else. To explain, I am numb to the feelings God and others share with me, concerning my sinfulness against them. I don't feel the weight of my sins against them. This causes me to be emotionally unattached to them, ultimately making me feel like any act of love I do is superficial causing me an inability to come to the deepest levels of love and intimacy. After all, how do you identify with someone until you can have compassion on their hurts that you may or may not cause them? How do you enter into the fullness of God when you don't feel the weight of your sins, that causes you to understand the greatness of God's grace - which causes you to have an insatiable longing to show God your gratitude? I don't feel as gratious for Jesus' sacrifice as I ought to. I want a revival in my life, but I don't know how to get past this. I don't know what to do to have compassion again. Any words of wisdom would be awesome.

sermonindex Aug 21, 2006

I don't feel as gratious for Jesus' sacrifice as I ought to. I want a revival in my life, but I don't know how to get past this. I don't know what to do to have compassion again. Any words of wisdom would be awesome.

"Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father."
-Galatians 1:4

"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."
-Galatians 4:6

"I write unto you little children, because your sings are forgiven you for [b]his name's sake[/b]."
-1 John 2:12

Be encouraged! spend time on your knees with your bible. Perserver therein and mercy shall come down.

M
mikeness Aug 21, 2006

Any personal experiences you can share? I am going to pray about this because it is huge. I understand what the verses are saying, but that understanding is not going to my heart. Is their any advice for bringing head knowledge into the heart?

H
hmmhmm Aug 21, 2006

ill have to tell you ive had some struggles whit this to, ive felt it and sometimes feelt nothing, i had it in my head but my heart wasent geting anything,

but i read my bible on my knees,
i cried out to god, again and again
and then one time i read the bible on my knees....
the tears started flowwing...i understood...i actually fully understood what christ did for me on the cross..and i must say i was filled whit a peace i cant really explain,

and now this isent my everyday experience, but i encurage you to do this, read the bible prayerfully, ask the holy spirit to show you the truth and make you understand... and be honest whit god, tell him,
and remember
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

gods peace to you

sermonindex Aug 21, 2006

I strongly recommend you to highly to listen and read this compliation, the listen link is in that post:

[b]All To Jesus[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11949&forum=34

M
mikeness Aug 21, 2006

I am listening to it right now.

M
mikeness Aug 21, 2006

I have done the body postures while praying and singing, but I am so analytical that all my focus turns on to what I am doing instead of God. Same with singing itself. I get so focused on my voice for whatever analytical reasons that I lose focus of God, so I don't sing through my mouth but inside my head most of the time. But then I get self-concious about that because people might think that I don't want to participate in church, and on and on and on. I analyze things to death. I want my body postures to be sincere and my words and feelings to be sincere as well.

H
hmmhmm Aug 21, 2006

dont worrie so much what others think, and over analytical is eazy to be, im no expert in giving advice, i can tell you what my bible tells people, trust in his word, stop the analys and just belive in the word, let the holy spirit lead you, sing to god not for men no matter what men might say, pray to god not for men to hear you, no matter if men like how you put a lot of words togheter in a nice sounding way.
and just obey what you read and meditate on it
And what has happend in my life is this when ive started to look at it this way, i feel and experience more of god.

and maybe a good sermon for you is
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4489&commentView=itemComments

gods peace to you and i will pray for you
christian

M
mamaluk Aug 21, 2006

mikeness,

It's good that you are so honest about the state you think you are in. I believe that the Lord has started to work in you.

I also believe that conviction is a work of the Holy Spirit, sometimes He uses Scripture, sometimes circiumstances.

Hmmhmm was right, time plays a factor, patience has to come into play. Apparently some of us use our knees often. Thank God for our healthy knees. :)

When a person humbles oneself before God, God often respond with mercy, and His mercy supply all that we lack in our spirituality.

It's a good sign I see in your post, just keep on studying and praying and fellowshiping with true Christians.

will pray, In Christ
mamaluk

sermonindex Aug 21, 2006

After all, how do you identify with someone until you can have compassion on their hurts that you may or may not cause them?
Dear brother, has anyone ever identified with you in your hurts, and made sure that you received the healing your soul may need from sins others (may have) committed against you?

I am interested in your confession of being 'analytical', because this is a common response when children have been through traumatic events, and later try to make sense of their lives. Also, self-consciousness can be a result of not having been given the freedom to make mistakes in a loving environment. Maybe it was a critical environment.

I believe an aspect of the answers you seek may lie in beginning to see yourself as valued by God, rather than having to perform for Him.

In other words, when you have experienced His compassion for your most intimate needs, you will find yourself released to give similar compassion to meet the needs of others.

R
roaringlamb Aug 21, 2006

I am interested in your confession of being 'analytical', because this is a common response when children have been through traumatic events, and later try to make sense of their lives. Also, self-consciousness can be a result of not having been given the freedom to make mistakes in a loving environment. Maybe it was a critical environment.

Dear Sister you have spoken wondrously to my heart. I too have been having the same problem as of late. It seems that I can put on the fake Jesus loves you attitude, but there is no real heart compassion.
Yet as I read your post, I began to realize that there are many times where I am so overly analyzing everything. Making sure that I am not going overboard, and somehow seeing how I could deserve HIS love. This perhaps has something to do with growing up in an environment where near perfection was the standard and any deviation from that meant failure. C's were not good enough, it had to be all A's. Then I ended up in a church environment that was under a very heavy handed man. There was no questioning him on anything, the other pastors went along with it as well, and anyone who questioned was rebellious or unsubmissive (guess which gruop I fell into).
After being in ministry there for three years, I had to leave after I was told that a teaching I did at a retreat conflicted with the Senior pastor. I asked them why because 95% of it was scripture and nothing else. I was told I could still attend, but could no longer serve. Within a month, men who had sworn to be brothers, and had spoken of their love for my wife and me would not even talk to me. My wife continued attending there only to be told that I was in rebellion, and that because I was not going to church there we were having financial problems.
Eventually they told her we should separate for a period of time so that I would see the error of my ways and return to fellowship there. Meanwhile I had found other believers and we were meeting once a week to study and pray(it was wonderful!).
Eventually though my dear wife let it slip that she did not hold to a pre-trib rapture view, and that was it for her. She was told she had to leave ministering to the youth, but she could still attend church there.
Sorry to ramble, but it is good to gelt this out.
Please pray for us as the feelings don't simply go away overnight, and it has been very hard on my wife.
Thank you, and brother Mike I apologize for spouting so much on your thread ;-)

M
mamaluk Aug 21, 2006

Quote Dorcas

"has anyone ever identified with you in your hurts, and made sure that you received the healing your soul may need from sins others (may have) committed against you?"

too true, this brings out the issue of forgiveness, very tough, from the flesh's standpoint.

We hear "love another" a lot, but we see "love me only" far more.

hate to be so negative, sorry
mamaluk


J
JFEdgar Aug 21, 2006

I dont know if this helps, but I am a lot like you in analyzing everything to death. A good brother once gave this very wise advice to me:

Stop thinking.

That was it. It was just that simple. I objected with "But I feel like I cant."

He simply said "Yes you can." And that was it.

Love,
Joe

C
ChrisJD Aug 21, 2006

Sorry to ramble, but it is good to gelt this out.

Dear Roaringlamb and others, I think there might be more of us on these forums who've similar hurts. I too hope mike doesn't mind this sharing in his thread but I am glad you did.

For myself, I can also recognise this lack of sensitivity towards God and my own sins. And while I do feel much compassion for others, I recognise too a sort of numbness to it all. It could be from seeing day in and day out the rottenness of this evil world and the men and women crushed under it. It's one thing to know all the theology of sin and it's effects, to have all the answers as to why and how come;it's quite another to live, like a bruised reed under the crush of it, broken, but tenderhearted.

I have just finished reading the book [i] If prison walls could speak[/i]. It's a collection of 'sermons' written by Pastor Wrumbrand while in solitary confinement. While I might not without reservation recommend the book to a general audience, even of Christians, there is a passage from one of the sermons near the end that I'd like to share, where he writes

My responses have become dulled.....Gone is the time when I reacted by banging on the door or even weeping.

Brothers we should pray for one another and remember too that we are not alone in suffering.

Love and grace be to all your hearts in Christ Jesus. And may God enlarge our hearts for more of Him.

sermonindex Aug 22, 2006

Then I ended up in a church environment that was under a very heavy handed man. There was no questioning him on anything, the other pastors went along with it as well, and anyone who questioned was rebellious or unsubmissive
Dear Patrick,

Thank you for sharing your bread.

I recognise aspects of what you went on to say, particularly what I've quoted of your response (which all blessed me, thank you), and of which I've heard similar accounts from even a teenager. I too have been effectively asked to leave or keep my mouth shut, once. By then, I was prepared, though, as it was not the first time I'd been under an abusive (false) shepherd.

The fact is, that you ended up under a heavy handed man because that's what you were used to. There was a certain security, initially, of feeling looked-after. But, as God worked in your life and called you to grow into dependence solely on Him and His word, you gradually found yourself unable to retain the approval of men, which had been so important in your childhood. It is the Lord's grace to you that you were 'released' from such shepherding. Praise and thank Him for it, as it has forced you deeper onto the road (Way) of Holiness, wherein even fools shall not err (Isa 35).

mamaluk mentioned forgiveness

too true, this brings out the issue of forgiveness, very tough, from the flesh's standpoint.
to which I would say this - despite how un-pc it is and some might even say anti-scriptural. But, I speak from experience, so feel free to argue it out with others. I can only offer this angle, because this is what and how God led me through.... quite simply, that until one has been forgiven oneself, one may find it impossible to forgive.

In the light of what mamaluk quoted from me

"has anyone ever identified with you in your hurts, and made sure that you received the healing your soul may need from sins others (may have) committed against you?"
my previous sentence may seem contradictory.

Let me explain it this way. When we are young children, we don't realise how much we are being groomed for the adult world, but eventually we pick up on making our lives easier by complying. (This is something I always found very difficult to do consciously, because within the household in which I grew up, was a wicked person abusing the minors. Rebellion was the only way I could retain any semblance of control on what was left of my little life. It became a lifestyle for me. This is where the repentance eventually has to hit the road, and afterwards, being forgiven, one can begin to afford the same release to others.) At the same time as one is consciously dealing with whatever stress is being ministered, one is also (simultaneously) absorbing good and bad ways of thinking and dealing with living - whatever is filling the airways at home. I have been totally amazed by what I had picked up from the abusive personality with whom I grew up, which only came to light in my understanding, after that person's death. In fact, it was that death which helped me really understand and begin to [u]believe[/u] the meaning of Jesus' death, and how it really did bring an end to sin (for anyone who wants it). Oh so simple!

I would also justify the order I experienced in other terms, some of which are based on the physical and emotional age at which trauma occurred. A child may be capable of instant obedience while being watched, but, obeying when one isn't being watched requires a different level of consciousness, which one literally has to grow into. Hurts which occurred at an age of greater dependency, are, I believe, healed by the pure compassion of God without any conditions. The more He knows we understood then, or need to understand now, in order to receive the full deliverance He knows we need and which He can give (we believe), the more likely He is to let us work through a much longer process (with Him), which is peppered with moments of insight, healing, repentance and forgiveness, and overall growth to the soul.

I sure hope that makes sense, and seems focused enough on the issues. If this leads to further discussion, I could say more. Let's stay real with each other here. Comapssion is such a vital part of true Christianity. It was compassion which rose in Jesus [i]often[/i] before He began to heal the multitudes.

S
Spitfire Aug 23, 2006

Dear Mikeness. I love that you wrote on this subject! I used to be a regular here at SI, but now I just drop in from time to time and scan around . Your thread here caught my eye and then when I went back and read your original post, I was excited because this is exactly how my journey began. I can tell that you have been seeking God as much as you are able. And I'm excited to see that you are aware of your hardness of heart and that it matters to you.

First, let me say, that the day that I became aware that my heart was hard and there was nothing I could do about it, I was very sad. I didn't cry, but I was sad. I knew something was terribly wrong and I also knew that I could not fix it. I can distinctly remember how it happened. I had listened to a sermon that my pastor preached at church which had me on the edge of my seat. I was absolutely caught up as he described being a sergeant in the Army at an army base in the south. That was just prior to the Desert Storm. He told of how much his men under him liked him because he taught them how to pass tests well. His platoon was revered for making good grades, because he taught them how to cheat, basically. Then, he said, one day he was on a weekend leave and he was sitting in front of the television at his home when a news bulletin came on and said that all men assigned to this army base were to return immediately. He then watched a report of the beginning of the gulf war. He was sick. He said when he returned to his base, it was on lockdown. The gates were guarded and he had to show his id to get in. He said, in his heart, he knew, that America was going to war and that he had to lead a platoon of men to the battlefront and they were not prepared. He said, when he got back to the base, people were scrambling to pack up weapons on trucks for transport, but he started cramming manuals in boxes. He said his men were mad at him for making them lug these books to the desert.

Then, they were sent to the frontlines of the battle on the border of Iraq and Kuwait. He said they dug foxholes and were on the highest alert for months. He said the highest alert was where like 3/4ths of the men had to be awake and on ready 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. That meant that each man was only allowed to sleep 4 hours a day and when he did sleep, he was required to keep his clothes and boots on and his rifle by his side. Daryl said, every minute he had, he was pouring over manuals trying to figure out how to fire some of the weapons they had brought. He said, at one point, they took a big gun thing out of the box and it was wrapped in plastic and they couldn't even get the plastic off the thing. He said they looked like the three stooges just trying to unwrap it. He said, one day he was so tired and he decided that he had to get some rest, so he stripped down to his underwear and snuggled down into his sleeping bag, but it wasn't long until he was awakened from his deep sleep by a loud explosion which shook the ground. He said that, as he awoke, he could hear bullets whizzing by and it was mass chaos. He said he didn't have time to get dressed, he just ran to his foxhole in his underwear. He said it was dark and everyone was really scared and didn't know what had happened. They waited for several hours and, as daylight broke, a Hummer with an eagle on the side of it pulled up and a colonel got out. He said, "Who's in charge here?" My pastor said he had to get out of his foxhole and walk over in front of this man in his underwear. Turns out, the explosion was a mistaken friendly fire and this colonel just came out to tell them everything was ok. When he saw Daryl in his underwear, he just shook his head.

The message Daryl was preaching was on how unprepared we are as a church. I knew, as I listened to that story, that I was in my underwear in the middle of a real war, but I didn't feel much emotion. I knew that I should be on my face at the altar, weeping, but I wasn't. I wanted to weep and feel the burden, but I couldn't. I was saddened by my lack of passion. I was saddened by how many others around me seemed unmoved by this scenario.

I remember, on the way home from church, for the first time in my life, I realized, that, if God didn't do a miracle in my heart, I was doomed. I prayed a simple prayer. I pictured myself asleep, you know, like those times when your half asleep and you know that you need to get up, but you can't seem to drag yourself up out of it? I cried out to God and I said, "God, sound the alarm! Stick me with a cattle prod! Help me, Lord! Please, wake me up!" I felt desperate for something that I knew that I could not do, and, from that moment on, I just began to beg God to do it. That changed my life.

It didn't take long before I was getting up all hours of the day and night to pray. My prayers became this continual cry for God to do something in my heart that was real. And he has been doing it ever since. That was about 4 years ago. God took that woman who thought she was so spiritual and knew so much and took her apart until, all she was, was a garage full of pieces scattered all over the floor. Then, he dragged in this big trashcan and began to pick up my dismantled theology, piece by piece, and he would hold it up in front of me and he would show me what needed to go into that trashcan. We carried out huge garbage bags full of stuff. I have cried rivers and rivers. I have felt like I can't live through this. This past year has been the darkest, spiritual time I have ever lived through. There is a renewed sense of urgency in me at all times. And I've been humbled to the point, that I hardly have anything to say. You can ask anyone on SI, I don't talk anymore. This is the most I've had to say in a year!

So, thanks for listening to my ramblings.

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee."

Dian.

G
ginnyrose Aug 23, 2006

Brother,

I have not read the entire thread, so please pardon me if I am repeating what has been said.

When you find in your self a spiritual deficiency, all you have to do is talk to God about it. Tell him exactly what you think and believe and see. Having done that wait and let Him work in your heart to bring about this correction. But be warned and prepared: it likely will mean trials of the sort you did not envision. God will use trials to bring about correction in our lives. And be aware it will not happen overnight but it will be a process through which you may learn some patience.

BTW, I also have to regularly ask for a divine infusion of love, especially for the people I get weary of, those I prayed for so long with no visible results. This is life, brother.

ginnyrose

M
mikeness Aug 25, 2006

Dear brother, has anyone ever identified with you in your hurts, and made sure that you received the healing your soul may need from sins others (may have) committed against you?

I am interested in your confession of being 'analytical', because this is a common response when children have been through traumatic events, and later try to make sense of their lives. Also, self-consciousness can be a result of not having been given the freedom to make mistakes in a loving environment. Maybe it was a critical environment.

I believe an aspect of the answers you seek may lie in beginning to see yourself as valued by God, rather than having to perform for Him.

In other words, when you have experienced His compassion for your most intimate needs, you will find yourself released to give similar compassion to meet the needs of others.

I am reconciling over a decade of pain that has gone on since my dad has neglected to be a spiritual leader and a father who pursues his children.

Your words concerning me being analytical make sense and I will put some deep thought into that and the self-conciousness. I have never thought of those things in those ways.


dorcas wrote:
After all, how do you identify with someone until you can have compassion on their hurts that you may or may not cause them?

M
mikeness Aug 25, 2006



mamaluk mentioned forgiveness
too true, this brings out the issue of forgiveness, very tough, from the flesh's standpoint.
to which I would say this - despite how un-pc it is and some might even say anti-scriptural. But, I speak from experience, so feel free to argue it out with others. I can only offer this angle, because this is what and how God led me through.... [b]quite simply, that until one has been forgiven oneself, one may find it impossible to forgive. [/b]

Could you elaborate on this.

M
mikeness Aug 25, 2006

thank you for your story. I can greatly identify with what you are saying. It is good to know that I am not the only one in this battle for compassion and a deeper more intimate relationship with Christ.

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