Compilations are ILLEGAL?

Hi all,
I'm highly concerned that the incredible compilations such as "The Revival Hymn" are illegal. The issue is not whether they are being resold, it is the copyright on the content used.

Most pastors who allow their sermons to be freely reproduced ask but one thing, that the sermon be maintained as a whole. Otherwise, a sermon reproduced in part could be used to support almost any message the reproducer has in mind. The last thing a pastor needs is a well meaning (or malicious) "comper" to butcher context and tarnish a valid whole. The sum of their words may have been the intended truth.

Additionally, much of the fancy music on the compilations is being enjoyed without a sale to the creator. Not to mention, most CDs these days have an anti-piracy warning strictly forbidding copying in any form.

Don't get me wrong, I love compilations. Yet, are we turning a blind eye to the obvious disobedience to authority and even stealing? Can anyone defend compilations with a sound argument besides the normal stammerings most people use to justify stealing copyrighted music? "I'm not making a profit" or "The original author is Christian" won't cut it.

Sorry to drop the bomb. I'm waiting to hear responses before trashing my collection of comps...

I'm no legal expert, but I think compilations are legal if they are used for "educational purposes."

"Fair Use" is a defense, but it is a very limited one. If a copyright holder wanted to challenge the use of their music in a compliation I don't think Fair Use would be a reliable defense. I believe the system would regard complilations as entertainment or self expression, rather then educational or even parody.

See this link for [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use]Fair Use[/url]

The issue of damages, or legal remedies are completey seperate...since complilations have no commercial value it may be simply a matter of pulling the infringement.

One thing to consider is contacting the labels and artists that own these recordings and getting their permission for non-profit application. You might be pleasantly surprised. I had a friend who obtained permission from Michael W. Smith's people to use the intrumental music "Ashton" on a video presentation for a surgeon's conference.

In the very least, if you found out that the copyright holder would not want you to use their music, wouldn't that pretty much speak to your conscience about the right and wrongness of using their music?

MC

One more idea related to compilations...

Perhpas some people could try building semi-custom tracks in powerful and inexpensive programs like Garageband for Mac :-D or Acid for PC :-( . These programs use royalty-free bits of professional music that can be layered very easily. There is a little more work and cost, but the benifit is that you can altar the music tracks with more control to fit your voice-overs more exactly.

MC

the Audio Scripture I use is free by Stephen Johnston whose reading of the Word I enjoy so much, his voice is soft and meek.

ive made one compilation before, i was so moved by keith daniel that i made a compilation, then greg told me he had recived a letter from Keith Daniel where he says he dident want people to use his voice like that, so i erased it.
Now if that person or campany who own the copywright to these background music would say something i would erase that one to, then i dont know of all the rules, since i make the compilation in sweden.... i know some laws here you cant copy it and use it for your own personal profit, or claim it is you who made it, but i know i can download anything thats been shown on tv for example, its not elegal to record songs played on the radio.
and since i dont do compilation for personal profit or for any organisations profit i see it to be ok,
but if im wrong i will change it... ill try find out who ill can ask it to be ok, and for that comp greg uploded here im working on a version whituot music that now is almost done... or maybe one whit some music that is free to use . So maybe people can choose what version they feel ok whit until we know for sure .... or have permition to use it..im thinking of sending some mails and se what the response will be

gods peace to you
christian

There is a lot of speculation about copyright laws, but no real evidence. It seems like it is easier for someone to "ask for forgiveness" if we ignorantly infringe on someone's copyright, then it is to ask for permission, because that takes a lot of work.

According to the US Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov/):
"Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
"No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work."

and

"What does copyright protect?
"Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed."

Therefore sermons and music would hold copyrights, whether registered or not. It seems to me that whenever we manipulate sermons into compilations, add background music without permission even for the "edification of the body" we are breaking US Copyright Law. God has called us to obey the laws of the government in his word. It does not matter how good the intent is, the law of God supercedes good intent.

Even as I write this I stand guilty, so after I post this I need to go delete a clipped version of one of the sermons I downloaded and go home and throw away the compilation sermon. Beware lest we harden our hearts against the conviction of the Holy Spirit and rationalize our sins.

Brothers and sisters let us confront our sins that we might walk in holiness, and thank God that conviction through His word.

Let us be men and women of integrity.

My name is Andrew Strom, and just to add to this discussion from a "preacher's" perspective - I LOVE compilations. I think they are a great invention.

My preaching has been used in a number of compilations on the Internet - and I do not mind at all - in fact I think anything new that gets the message out is a good thing. I don't mind at all that my preaching is "chopped up" - and I have never yet found one that is objectionable. I am sure almost all preachers would feel the same way. So go for it, people!

Regarding the "music" situation - yes this is a little dicey using 'comercial' music. But I have studied "Fair Use" a little - and probably the comps are OK if they are free on the Internet. But it is better to find some 'Copyright-free' loops or music if possible.

All in all, I encourage everyone to make MORE comps - not less!! If you want some fiery sermons to "chop up" and use, then feel free to come to-
http://www.revivalschool.com -and use our MP3 sermons there - or whatever you like.

God bless you all.

Andrew Strom.

Hello Andrew,

After hearing and reading some of your sermons, it's great to see you here 'in person'!

MC

I don't think that the clipping of sermons is in question in this thread but rather the music behind them.

As the originator of this thread, 'yes' the clipping of the sermons and the music is in question.

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not out to destroy compilations. I love compilations and have been moved by many of them.

My concern was, and is, that we need to be more careful when assembling compilations. Excellent content doesn't negate breaking copyright law.

I propose that those doing compilations create a centralized web page which lists pastors and musicians who have no problem with their material being used. These should be backed up with some type of proof of correspondence.

We all know a few clips from Keith Daniel set to epic music could drive just about anyone to the floor, but he does not wish for his material to be used in such a way. Is it then righteous to assume all speakers' and musicians' material is fair game unless they find out and have a dispute?

This discussion is not pleasant but are we heading toward revival and the promised land with little idols tucked into our pockets?

Compilations can be powerful and effective and I'm not suggesting forsaking them. I'm suggesting greater accountability, and maybe even guidelines (to prevent completely misrepresenting a speaker)so we aren't guilty of breaking the law and/or hurting people.

well can agree whit many things...and i have now asked in e-mails permisssion to use the background music to the copyright owners and companys....in my compilation... and since all the speakers in them have passed on to eternity i feel it would be ok to use their voices.
and if it would turn out for my comp it wouldent be ok to use the music i will not, and just in case im working on a "musicfree" version....but if anyone know of some copyrightfree music webpage or something similar it would be great...

gods peace to you
christian

As I said, as a preacher whose sermons are used
sometimes in compilations - I really think we need to encourage the concept more. Because the devil is out there using every form of media for evil day and night. In a very real sense we are "competing" for the hearts and minds of this generation.

Yes, by all means use "copyright-free" music if possible. However, apart from 2 specific preachers who are named in this thread, I believe that all preachers living and dead should be assumed to *WANT* the word that they have brought to go out in any and all ways possible. I certainly wish to see anointed preaching go further and further - and personally I am fine with 'clips' being taken to do that. I believe we need to assume the same of all preachers - unless we are told otherwise.

Else this is going to put a "damper" on something new and exciting that God wants to do to reach this generation. There is nothing worse than losing a 'weapon' for good - when we need every weapon we can get. Please do not go "overboard" and kill the whole 'comp' concept by making it too hard to make them easily. I believe that is playing right into the devil's hands.

-Andrew Strom.