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Is Word of Faith Teachings Dangerous?

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Yeshuasboy Aug 27, 2006

Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus,
I came across a video presentation over the internet that I feel many of you who frequent this site may be interested in. The presentation is done by Mr. Justin Peters at SouthWestern Baptist Seminary on March 22, 2006. The presentation that Mr. Peters displays is basically focused on what many call the "Word of Faith" movement. Some of you should get ready to get blown away :-D I plead with you all to be strong in the Lord during these perilous times that we are living in, continuing to walk in the fear of God. Watch by first linking here to his site: [url=http://www.justinpeters.org/demo.htm]http://www.justinpeters.org/demo.htm[/url] You will need Windows Media Player to watch it. Brothers and sisters, this is just a drop in the bucket :-( Please comment if you wish...
Shalom,
richie

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Smokey Aug 27, 2006

Yeshuasboy

Quite an interesting message. Bound to cause some "spirited" discussion here.

Blessings Greg

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bereangirl Aug 27, 2006

Hi Yeshuasboy...to answer your question...yes, the Word of Faith teaching is dangerous in that it is doctrinely off ever so slightly (and sometimes not so slightly) and when you are in the middle of it, you don't see it because you are taught that you are "in faith". I was in a Word of Faith type of church for 8 years. Two years ago, a few things didn't sit right with me that were taught and practiced and I began to dig and see whether what I was taught stood up to all of Scripture. It didn't. The last straw was when I was watching one of the Faith teachers and he was going on about how there was this house he wanted but the owner didn't want to sell it. He said "that house is MINE." I thought, isn't that coveting??? I thought, something is wrong here and began questioning EVERYTHING at that point.

What makes false doctrine deceptive is that it is mixed with what is authentically true. Word of Faith folks do study the Word, they memorize the Word, and everything they do, they want to do in prayer and faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God, right? So on they go. But things can get out of balance if you are grabbing Scriptures that fit your need for the hour and not letting all of the Word do it's work in your heart.

It is true that Jesus still heals. He has healed me of asthma, cracking knees and lower back pain. He has also done a tremendous amount of emotional healing and most of these times He has healed me in my own prayer time at home. I didn't have to strive to receive healing. I just asked and then sat as His feet. But often with Word of Faith it comes across that you have to strive in prayer and/or confession and ignore your ailment like it wasn't there to receive healing which could become discouraging if you think you are doing all the right things and you still aren't healed.

Fellowship. Maybe this was just my church experience and perhaps it isn't true for other Word of Faith churches, but I found that I was missing depth of real fellowship of just loving one another and learning from EACH OTHER. It seems that the purpose of a Word Of Faith church is to receive teaching from the "Man of God" at the front and then off you go.

There were other issues that were concerns at my previous church in addition to doctinal ones which I won't get into here. Now that I have been out of there for 9 months I'm seeing more and more how out-of-whack my particular church was and how this teaching in part contributed to it. All I can say is that I thank the Lord that He has opened my eyes to the truth.

There is a short sermon excerpt from David Wilkerson called "Another Gospel". It's in the Top 20 Downloads. I would encourage anyone to listen to that especially if you are still in a Word of Faith church. I have put my thoughts regarding the "seed faith" teaching there in the comments section.

Brothers and sisters I have concluded from my experience that truth is a precious commodity and we must guard and keep it at all costs.

Blessings,

Bereangirl

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crsschk Aug 27, 2006

Hi Bereangirl,

A warm welcome to you here even though I did see your other post. You are speaking right out of more than a few of our own backyards here, this one included.

It is a terrible construct and you codified it perfectly;

yes, the Word of Faith teaching is dangerous in that it is doctrinely off ever so slightly (and sometimes not so slightly) and when you are in the middle of it, you don't see it because you are taught that you are "in faith".

Thank God you developed that pit in the stomach that began the process of;

I thought, something is wrong here and began questioning EVERYTHING at that point.

It still breaks my heart, those caught up in it.

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Nellie Aug 28, 2006

I know some WOF people, and have given them tapes and Video's by David Wilkinson and Carter Conlon.
They have heard and seen enough of the True Word of God, to set them free, but they continue to watch the WOF teachers.
It is as if a veil is over their eyes, and they have been indoctrinated.
It would seem to me that just the Scripture in the Bible where it says, God is no respect of persons, so if God wanted the teachers of WOF to live like Kings and Queens, then why doesn't He want the Christian who loves Him with all their heart, soul, mind, body, and spirit, to have nice things, also?
I know the Bible teaches that He supplies our need according to His riches in Glory, but that is our need, not our wants, that we may consume it upon our own lusts.
We have to rightly divide the Bible.
God Bless
Nellie

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Yeshuasboy Aug 29, 2006

Yes, false teachings seem to be almost everywhere these days...A guy who I met leading a Biblestudy at the university here a few years back writes a weekly column in the local newspaper and twice he said in the same article that Jesus' teachings are absurd!!!...Yes, and he's the university chaplain nonetheless!!! Thank God for mercy and selfcontrol! Please pray that God will grant me His grace to continually abide in Him. I don't want to be lukewarm...I tried it and it was a terrible experience! I need Jesus abiding in me 24/7 or i'm doomed!!! Cleanse me from ALL unrighteousness Lord...
Anyway, the trippy thing I find with WOF teachers and students, is this trip they're on about man's authority...Like in the video presentation where Creflo Dollar's urging his congregation to say "We're Gods"...or when Gloria Copeland's talking about how her husband Ken can rebuke tornadoes :-P . Here's an article I found concerning the authority we have in Christ Jesus: [url=http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain16.htm]http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain16.htm[/url]
I mean, it looks to me that many "religious" folk don't take the time to read the Holy Bible, and don't want to have their own personal relationship with Christ Jesus! Oh, how the Lord deserves sooo much more!!! :-(
GIVE ME ALL OF GOD OR NOTHING!!! Since when has there ever been a tight, close bond in any superficial relationship?
Thanks ya'll for the comments. I just had to put the link to the WOF video presentation in the orginal post because, so far, it's been the most powerful rebuttal I've come across as of yet on this movement. i think we desperately need tools like these ones that help open up people's eyes to twisted, false doctrine, and explain God's Love correctly. I mean don't the blind leading the blind end up in the same ditch? This is scarey indeed!!!. Brethren, please pray for those that haven't committed the sin that leads unto death. God help us all...
richie

sermonindex Aug 29, 2006

I used to be in a WOF church. There are people in WOF that I believe are truly saved, however false doctrines abound and I believe it can be a very dangerous thing to be a part of. Kinda like playing with fire.

I know that in WOF there is a tremendous amount of deception. I would rather be in truth.

While understanding that some in WOF are truly saved, I will at the same time warn everyone I can to stay away from it.

Krispy

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Yeshuasboy Aug 29, 2006


KrispyKrittr wrote:
While understanding that some in WOF are truly saved, I will at the same time warn everyone I can to stay away from it.
I think this is a much needed quote that I know I haven't mentioned, but really deserves to be. Thanks Krispy :-) God is soo merciful and sooo Loving!!! :-D I, myself, believe I shouldn't even be here...but only by the grace of God am I. PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God help me to continually obey Your commands to Love my neighbors, and my enemies, and be merciful as you are merciful. Thanks again Krispy for your timely post.
Please keep me in your prayers,
richie

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Nellie Aug 29, 2006

Thank-you, Yeshuasboy for the web-site.
I will print off some of the Articles, so I will know how to help the people I know who are involved.
I need to learn all I can about what GOd says about this.
God Bless you
Nellie

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Sentry Aug 29, 2006

Well, here's my two-cents worth :-)

I humbly respect the opinions of many on this website..but I also respect (More so) the Holy Spirit leading me...and guiding me.

As far as the WOF movement...I have VERY BAD FEELINGS regarding this.

Some things just don't add up.

I too have friends that I believe are truly saved..and are Christians...however, you don't have to be around them very long to hear some of the WOF teaching.

I don't say this in a judgemental tone or attitude.

But I am deeply concerned of things like this.

Recently...I heard a Radio Broadcast of a Revival at their church....it used the phrase: "demanding the Holy Spirit to heal"

I WAS SHOCKED!

This is a large, well known church in our area.

Demanding the Holy Spirit?
Is HE not GOD?

The Third Person of the trinity?

I don't know if this is part of the Word of Faith movement..but it greatly disturbs me.

My wife and I don't hang out with these friends much anymore.

sermonindex Aug 29, 2006

I don't know if this is part of the Word of Faith movement..but it greatly disturbs me.

It certainly is part of WOF. Thats called "name it and claim it", "blab it and grab it"... it's demanding God to keep His Word. First off, you dont have to demand that God keep His Word. Secondly, they are demanding He keep His "Word" when the promise they are attempting to claim was to the nation of Israel... not the church. So they are many times demanding that God keep His Word to them when He never made them a promise like what they are claiming.

And what they are asking for (prosperity) is nothing more than selfish lusting for earthly pleasures... or perfect health. God never promised the church either one. It's a horrible interpretation of scripture.

Ever notice how many of the originators of WOF preaching perfect health and healing are now dead? What happened there?

poke poke... hey, Papa Hagin... Katherine Kuhlman... How's that health doctrine working out for you?

Krispy

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boomatt Aug 29, 2006

Hi Guys,

I would like to weigh in on the Word of Faith Movement.

I used to go to a church of god that was full blown into this movement. I questioned my pastor (at that time) why he listened to these people. Every Sermon he preached, he quoted either Benny Hinn, Ken Copeland, TD Jakes, Paula White or other teacher that was in this movement. I told him that it really disturbed me that he listened to them. He told me that he had concerns to, but we cant be heresy hunters ( which is a quote from TBN.)

The day I knew I was in a heretical movement was when the church had the pastor's sister who was healed of Breast Cancer) (praise god) preach, but as the sermon got along, she took every healing doctrine out of context that was in the bible, most importantly Isaiah 53. which can mean physical, but obviously means spiritual healing. But anywho, she said that you WILL be healed of your bodily infirmities if you just have enough faith.

That was the final straw, I wondered to myself, why did the 13 year old girl who had a brain tumor die, she had faith. Basically, she said that the little girl didnt have faith, because she wasnt healed physically (even though she really was healed, spriritually)

I still dont understand why people fall for this deception. This is all Humanism, Materialism, faith to make yourself better on earth theology.

Anyways, I would definitely recommend "Christianity in Crisis" By: Hank Hannegraf (even though he isnt exactly on point all the time) nontheless he still wrote a great book about this movement and the people associated with it. Also, read "Counterfit Revival" By Hank, both well written books exposing that doctrine for what it is, heresy.

P.s. I still feel people are truly saved that are in it, I still know many people who are in it who love the lord, but I dont get why they sit under that kind of ministry.


Sincerely,

Heresey Hunter Matt

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Christinyou Aug 30, 2006

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

This is how we obtain faith, it is through the righteousness of God and Jesus Christ. Not by what the word of faith people think faith is all about. If you have enough faith you will be healed, if you are not healed you need to work on your faith, oops I died in lack of Faith. If we would have enough faith sister Susie who was a mother of Israel in her faith and work for the church would have been healed.

The Body of Christ is the Faith of Jesus Christ, because "as He is, so are we in this world." Who had Faith enough to save the World from sin? It was Jesus Christ and we that are in Jesus Christ are of the same Faith by the Father birthing His Son in us. We are born again of the Father by the Son we were crucified with, then risen with Him in Heavenly Places, the life we now live we live by the Faith of the Son of God. Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]:)

We must see that the righteousness of faith is not something that we ascend into heaven to get, that is bring down the faith from above ourselves and train ourselves by using all the books of faith and build up our most holy faith. No, No a thousand times No. The faith of the Son of God is given us at spiritual birth by the Incorruptable Seed Born Again in us by the Father. Making us son's of God and by The Lord Jesus telling us how to Pray now, "Our Father" which no one had prayed in this way before. By this Son that is in us we have the Faith that God is. Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

We have all the Faith there is, we just need to know it. Then use it as Jesus Christ did, He did nothing unless His Father told Him, and in Hearing The Father, His Faith Saves all those that believe the He is the Son of God. In us hearing Jesus Christ that is now our life and His faith by which we now live, may we see and do the greater works He said we would do.

This is the old testament way: Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
This is the New testament way: Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. That is, "Perfect in Christ". Much more than Just trusting and building our faith.
We are One in Christ and also the Father and by the Power and Faith of Jesus Christ imparted to us by the Holy Spirit in Sealing us into Jesus Christ being our Heavenly Faith By God our Father. 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 John 5:10-12 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

One more time. 1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. Then Prov 3:5-6 will make perfect sense.

In the Faith of Jesus Christ: Phillip

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IRONMAN Aug 31, 2006

brethren
i don't know much about this movement but i've heard of the name it anc claim it doctrine (if it can even be called that) and it is foolishness. That being said, i think there is something to this whole Word of Faith issue. it seems to me that speaking the true word of faith, it has to come from the Throne of God, that is it must be unctioned or else it's vanity. i think of when miracles were performed and men said such things as "get up and walk in Jesus' name!" and so on, it seems to me this would be a true execise of the true Word of Faith, it has to be backed by God and it must come from Him.

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Christinyou Aug 31, 2006

Pretty much summed up in one Scripture.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

Ironman, correct in all aspects where The Born Again's Faith comes form. It must come from God.
"The life we now live we live by the Faith of the Son of God. Amen.

Not faith in until the Faith of becomes our claim.

In The Faith of Christ; Phillip

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GraceAlone Sep 21, 2006

Don't mean to inturrupt...

One danger of believing this "word of faith" thing is the heresy its brought forth. Some teach that Christ's work was not finished on the cross, but in hell (for 3 days). When clearly Christ said He'd be in paradise. It also teaches the superstitions and mysticism associated with the charismatic movement. Another bad fruit it has sprung is the money hungry televangelists preaching that if you speak to your wallet it will force God to put money in it. Its a formula for twisting God's hand behind His back to get Him to do what you want. Faith is not a tangable force we can use to manipulate God as much as belief is or repentance.

Here is the def: From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Some bad trees have even produced the idea of not praying "in Jesus's name" but to COMMAND God Himself to obey.

Danger? Yup.

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Azulfire Sep 22, 2006

I do not promote WOF nor do i know anybody, in the movment, but i do believe that he went into the depths, because he took our sin upon himself, God could not bear to look upon the sin, so he suffered hell for us, he overcame Hell....and yes I also believe he was in paradise too...as he said he would be...
Is paradise and heaven two seperate places? is Hades sheol, and hell seperate places, I don't know but i'am inclined to believe so.
Was the crucifiction (cross) the finished work? or that he died and rose again.? why not all of it?
Michelle


Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.


Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.


Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.


Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;


Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.


Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.


Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?


Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

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npautsky Sep 22, 2006

Is Word of Faith Teachings Dangerous?

Mat 6:24 [b] [i] No man can serve two masters: for

either he will hate the one, and love the other;

or else he will hold to the one, and despise the

other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. [/b] [/i]


If I've got it right, the Lord here is saying that if a person loves God then he will hate money, or if he loves money he will hate God, or else if he holds to God he will despise money, or if he holds to money he will despise God.

To the degree that these people lead you to believe that you can love money and love God, they become extremely dangerous. Most of the leaders of this movement live in half million or million dollar homes and drive expensive cars etc. If soaking up the rich life of this world is not covetousness, then what is?

Covetous - having or showing a strong desire for material possessions.

Psa 10:3 [b] [i] For the wicked boasteth of his

heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom

the LORD abhorreth. [/b] [/i]

Psa 17:14 [b] [i] From men which are thy hand, O

LORD, from men of the world, which have their

portion in this life, and whose belly thou

fillest with thy hid treasure: they are full of

children, and leave the rest of their substance to

their babes. [/b] [/i]

I don't know much about the rest of their doctrines, but I am certain that a person is on the road to destruction who embraces their doctrines or examples about money.

sermonindex Sep 22, 2006


Like most other respondents to this thread, I don't know the whole story about the WOF movement, but one thing strikes me everytime it is discussed, which is that there is such a thing as a word, of faith, and this comes from God, FIRST.

[b]IF[/b] God has spoken to a person and they believe Him (as Abraham did in his situation), then it is ok to pray [u]for[/u] the thing God has put in your heart, in order to receive from Him.

What is not ok, is .... what has been described already.... being the [i]initiator[/i] of the word which is supposedly 'claimed' [i]as if[/i] God had said it first.

However, there is nothing wrong with honest (needy) supplication, on the understanding that God will always answer.... but in the terms He knows will best bring [u]His wil[/u]l to pass in our lives.

C
crsschk Sep 22, 2006

It is a desecration of truth.
It is the clipping of scripture and mangling the Word of God.

It "works" for the leaders and their ministries by fleecing the flock.

It is a lie and a deception.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, [i]supposing that gain is godliness[/i]: from such withdraw thyself.

It is arrogance and audacity.
Presumption and pride.
Evil imaginations kept rather than discarded.

It has and will continue to ruin families, confuse the new born and drag the Name of the Lord to the lowest levels of human selfishness, greed and fleshly desires.

[i]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.[/i] Jud 1:3-19

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