Old Testament Saints

Hi evangelistcwyou wrote How do they find salvation if they died prior to Christ's sacrificial death on the cross for our redemption?This was only part of the question but I thought we might start here. Salvation is a big word and has lots of aspects but lets start with being spared God's righteous judgement. In Rom 4 Paul asks 'what did Abraham discover?' He says Abraham discovered 'justification by faith'. It is a legal phrase which means that God declares the believer to be right with Him on the basis of his faith and not any worth the believer has of his own. (which is just as well, as he has none!)How could God declare someone to be right with him, thereby escaping condemnation? The reason there is no condemnation is because someone already took it on his shoulders, on our behalf.Earlier in Rom 3:25 Paul shows us how God can be Just and at the same time Justifier of those who believe in Jesus. He says that on the cross God was making the payment for our sin and our subsequent alienation from God. Christians sometimes say Christ paid the price; to be strictly accurate the Father paid the price, and the price that He paid was His Son. (For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...)I sometimes tell the story of when my family was young. We had 7 children and visiting exhibitions and things was quite an event. On one occasion we were waiting in a queue at a turnstile. Each person had to pay the price to enter, one by one. My family were 4 in front, then Mum and Dad, and then the little ones. The lady on the turnstile let the first 4 through without them paying a cent. Do you know why? She could see the father coming with the price in hand. Because, in His heart, Christ was slain from the foundation of the world, the Father was able to let through Noah and Abraham and the others. Simply because the Father was coming with the price in His Hand.So, like me in my queue, the payment was effective for those ahead and those behind. The key thing about Abraham and the others is that they put all their trust in God, and none in their own effort or achievements. Faith is putting all your eggs into one basket. No contingences, no Plan Bs. Those who came to God like this were accepted by Him, on their part because of their faith, on His part because when His Son died He was bearing the 'sins of the whole world', including mine and yours and Noah's and Abraham's... God has always accepted men and women and this basis and always will...What a gospel! :-o

While reading (and participating in) the thread What about all the unsaved indians?? a question came to my mind, namely:QuestionHow have David, Moses, Daniel etc. been saved, since Christ had not died for the sins of the world back then? I searched the forum and found this thread. I would like to hear your take on this brothers/sisters (from a Biblical standpoint of course :-)!)Philologos wrote:Because, in His heart, Christ was slain from the foundation of the world, the Father was able to let through Noah and Abraham and the others. Simply because the Father was coming with the price in His Hand.I like the example, but could you explain this a little more from a Biblical point of view?Yours in Christ,Paul

Hi Evangelistcw,good questions,i just had to comment on Ron's reply sometimes tell the story of when my family was young. We had 7 children and visiting exhibitions and things was quite an event. On one occasion we were waiting in a queue at a turnstile. Each person had to pay the price to enter, one by one. My family were 4 in front, then Mum and Dad, and then the little ones. The lady on the turnstile let the first 4 through without them paying a cent. Do you know why? She could see the father coming with the price in hand. what a fantastic picture thanks Bro :-)

Regarding the ancient Israelites in the desert: "They drank from the spiritual rock that acompanied them, and that rock was CHRIST. Nevertheless , God was not pleased with most of them...." 1 Cor. 10:3Now, why did Paul specifically say that CHRIST was with them? What was Christ doing? What is the significance of his presence? It seems to be clear that his salvation was available to them. And because of UNBELIEF ie LACK OF FAITH, they refused him, and that's why they were not really considered one of Abraham's decscendants (see Rom. 4)I understand that Abraham and all the ancients had to trust in what was unseen - just as much as we have to TRUST in what is not seen in our natural senses. Whether we look forward, or backward there is no difference because faith is required regardless. In the spiritual dimension, finite time is not a limitation. In fact, there is no time and space, because it is eternal, not natural. No one can be saved in the natural, only in the spiritual. "For he (Abraham) was looking forward to a city with foundations, whose architect and builder was God." Heb. 11:10It would seem that we can fail in the same way as the Israelites did when we put our faith in something that is of the natural realm, and not the spiritual. ex: The NEW JERUSALEM is something eternal, not natural. Diane

This thread is very intersting, i had to comment on this though. Because, in His heart, Christ was slain from the foundation of the world, the Father was able to let through Noah and Abraham and the others. Simply because the Father was coming with the price in His Hand.so then, we see the Master's plan of propitition in action by the animal sacrfice--right? i had never thought about that like this before. it really does make perfect sense. the illustration that you used was spelndid as well. Praise God for you brother!