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With every eye closed and every head bowed...

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bereangirl Aug 27, 2006

I would just like to get some thoughts from everyone on the topic of altar calls. Since the time I started going to church 18 years ago, usually the pastor would have everyone shut their eyes and bow their heads before giving a call for salvation. The person was instructed to raise their hand if they wanted to do that and then the "repeat after me" prayer would begin.

That has never sat right with me from the start but as it seems it is the way it is done in most churches regardless of stripe or flavour, I have never said anything and assumed that there must be some good reason why this is done. But today I just just have to comment.

This morning we had one of those salvation calls at the end of the service. Why have every eye closed? Are we conveying that you should be ashamed of giving your life to Christ or that it is an entirely personal matter so that no-one else can see?

Why not rather have an altar call that says "Anyone who wants to give their life to Jesus and make Him Lord, come here and kneel at the front." And they would do so with every eye open and every head up.

I think we are doing a disservice to leading people to the Lord with this "eyes closed" approach. If that person is too scared or embarassed to do that in a church are they going to go and stick their neck out for Jesus at work or on the streets later?

I'm concerned that we are birthing bushel hiders.

Thoughts, anyone?

Blessings,

Bereangirl

S
Smokey Aug 27, 2006


AMEN

This method of extracting professions is certainly not biblical. Nowhere in the New Testament is this method used, it has just become one of the new "customs" that has sprung up in the church.

Act 19:18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and showed their deeds.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

These scriptures show a new believer that comes, repents, and is baptized PUBLICALLY.

Blessings Greg

G
GaryE Aug 27, 2006

You are right about not being ashamed of Jesus.

Mar 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Mar 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Mar 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

And also:

Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Luk 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Luk 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

Luk 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

What is usually done after the raised hands is to get the person to come forward where they openly go to an altar. The person has been lead into, at least, an outward confession that they are accepting Jesus at that point. Also, remember that Romans 10:9 and 10:10 speaks of confessing Jesus with the mouth and believing ing the heart.


It is thought that by getting someone to raise their hand in this way that you can then get them to outwardly come forward at an altar and confess Jesus by their acknowledging of the message that was spoken when they come before the people or preferably confessing Christ with their mouth at the altar. Probably most people don’t get saved this way but some do. This is what took place when I was saved and I almost didn’t go along with it. It is my opinion that I would have believed and had faith unto salvation without this method, but it did seem to drive me to a place of decision and maybe it is similar to what Joshua said when he said, "Choose this day who you will serve, but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord".


L
letsgetbusy Aug 28, 2006

This is one of those areas that I don't agree with the practice, but I don't fight people that do it. I, too, think it is a way to 'pluck unripe fruit' (Leonard Ravenhill, quoting the Puritans).

However, I was saved after raising my hand in my truck, listening to a radio gospel message, of someone doing the 'every head bowed, every eye closed' method.

So I do believe people can be saved doing this, but I think many are given a false sense of security. Personally, I was not sure what had happened. I wept, I felt different, I was thinking different thoughts, yet I was still scared that it wasn't genuine. So this made me read through the Scriptures, looking for the 'magic prayer' to make sure I had not left any words out.

I was exciting after reading the NT that there was no magic prayer, but I was also getting sort of angry that nobody was saying these things that Jesus said (that will be other posts you see me writing in).

Some do it because that is what everyone else does, that is what they have always done, and others because you know you will get numbers when you ask for hand raising. I agree with Ray Comfort, in that we should let God tell a new convert he is saved, instead of us telling him he is saved.

So again, I don't fight people on this, but I don't practice it myself.

L
lovegrace Aug 28, 2006

My last church I went to did an 'altar call' a little different.

They had EVERY eye OPEN and EVERY head UP. Because their opinion was 'no one should seek into the kingdom of God'. and I whole-heartly agree.

Blessings..

K
KingJimmy Aug 28, 2006

I think there is nothing wrong with it so long as the person understands that by raising their hand that they are signifying that they are comitted to now being a follower of Jesus. As the old saying goes, the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

Granted, ideally, that first step should be water baptism, as it seems "water baptism" was the "altar call" of Jesus' day (such is perhaps how the early church confused water baptism with regenerational power much as we do the 'magic prayer' today?).

S
Spitfire Aug 28, 2006

I have a friend who begins his "altar calls", "With every head up and every eye open". He says he does it for the very reason you mentioned. He doesn't think a response to the Gospel should be a secret. I agree. Dian.

sermonindex Aug 28, 2006

I dont know that this practice was started by Billy Graham, but he certainly popularized it. I dont think it's a bad tradition, but I do agree that a tremendous amount of false conversions have resulted from it.

On the flip side, DL Moody at one time would not give alter calls, he preferred his hearers went home after a message and meditated on things. Then, if they were serious about getting saved, he would invite them back later to get saved. One Sunday he did this, and in between that meeting and when he had the next meeting scheduled, the Great Chicago Fire broke out... killing hundreds of people that were associated with his church. He dealt with a tremendous amount of guilt, and abandoned the practice.

So... I say, even tho alter calls are not necessarily Biblical... I'm not against them either. If 12 people come forward, and one person is really saved... praise God!

At the same time, I think there are better and more effective ways. Think about Phillip. He came across the Etheopian reading Isaiah in his chariot. Phillip had to explain to the man what he was reading, and then explained how Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of what he was reading. So here we see careful explanation of scripture to a man who was genuinely searching for truth.

What was the next thing that happened? Phillip baptized him:

[b]Act 8:36-38[/b] [i]And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.[/i]

(Don't bother looking for verse 37 in your NIV... it's missing!)

So the unich accepted Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and was saved. Then he was immediately baptized. No classes needed, no additional training. Everything he needed to know about salvation was carefully explained to him by Phillip... he accepted it as truth, trusted in the Lord... and got wet.

Period.

What a wonderful description of salvation. (Too bad the modern versions omit the most important part!)

Krispy

J
Jacob19 Aug 28, 2006

I don't necessarily have a problem with altar calls, but the worst part is when after the altar call the Pastor says "If you prayed that prayer, then Jesus came into your heart". For one Jesus in your heart isn't biblical, but especially to say that everyone who prayed a prayer is saved is what makes 90% of Americans say they are saved.

I like what Spurgeon would do: He would say "If you need to get right with God, I will be in my office at 6:00 tomorrow morning". I personally think that is the best way.

Y
Yeshuasboy Aug 31, 2006

Blessings to you bereangirl,


bereangirl wrote:

I'm concerned that we are birthing bushel hiders.
Thoughts, anyone?

I think I may know what it is you're referring to, however, I could also be getting off your chosen topic...but I'll give it a shot nonetheless :-) ...
First, I'd like to refer you to Leonard Ravenhill's video interview here at SI: [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1702]https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1702[/url] Please skip to the forteenth minute where Mr Ravenhill begins to speak about an altar call experience. It's about 5 minutes long, although the entire interview is worth watching if you haven't seen it yet.
Next, I would like to quote from Mr Aiden Tozer where he said, "At the heart of the Christian message is God Himself waiting for His redeemed children to push in to a conscious awareness of His presence. That type of Christianity which happens now to be the vogue knows this Presence only in theory. It fails to stress the Christian's privilege of present realization. According to its teachings we are in the presence of God positionally, and nothing is said about the need to experiense that Presence actually."(Tozer's quote is taken from his book "The Pursuit of God", page 35)
And lastly, I would like to mention the insightful parable that our Lord Christ Jesus spoke of the parable of the sower in Matt 13: 18-23 which I believe, God willing, should also be read at every altar call, as the Spirit leads of course.
God sets people apart unto Himself to walk in living communion with Him...this walk is a walk of the Spirit...a regenerating walk of holiness, for God calls His own unto holiness amongest other beautiful things that are pleasing to Him, like the fruit of the Spirit. Anyway, to not get off topic, the altar call is just the beginning to a spiritual relationship with God Himself, not just a belief - for even the devil believes(James 2:19-20), then Php 2:13(all kjv).
It is the start of walking the narrow road to worshipping the Lord forever in spirit and in truth :-D It is all alot more than icons and traditions of men...It's about communing with God Himself...Thankyou LORD!!!!!!!!!
God bless you with Himself,
richie

R
RobertW Aug 31, 2006

Hi Berean Girl,

This is long, but it may help get you started. It is an excerpt from a thread I started called, "The Betrayal of the Ages."

THE ORIGINS OF THE MODERN DAY ALTAR CALL

In the 1820's, Charles Finney, considered by many to be the "father of modern evangelism", used his so-called "new measures" that disturbed many pastors and created much opposition to the revivals. Many of these 'new measures' in one form or another are so 'a part' of modern evangelical Christendom that it will seem odd to the reader that these measures are in many cases less than 200 years old. Until Finney popularized the 'new methods', conversions were considered a personal affair. Whitefield may have witnessed excited emotional outbursts of folk crying out in repentance during the meeting, but he would never have asked inquirers to sit on an "anxious bench", or pray publicly any type of repeated prayer as a sign of repentance. Before Finney, people were presented with the truth, but were never asked to respond to the message in any way. To elicit a response would be seen as calculated to assure a planned result, usurping the work of the Holy Spirit.

Consider that the famous Jonathan Edward's sermon, "Sinners in the hand of an angry God" was not preached, but 'read', with little, or no voice inflection. The reason the hearers response to that message was considered a movement of God was precisely because the reaction it inspired was spontaneous. It was not a 'hyped' up message. Appeals to the emotions were not generally considered a legitimate means of getting a sinner to turn to Christ. After the sermon, no altar call was given.

To the ministers in that time an altar call would have been considered manipulative. They believed that if God were not willing to stir the people's hearts, why would a minister attempt to elicit an emotional response? Therefore it is safe to say that the appeal was not to the emotions, but the conscience and hence the WILL. Emotions fade, but a genuine conversion to Christ will yield a born again Christian. Emotional ‘decisions’ lead to spurious conversions. Consider that Jonathan Edward's toiled six months in the First Great Awakening and was ecstatic to see 300 souls saved. Compare that to modern evangelistic events where according to the promoters, "10,000 responding to the invitation to Christ" or in Africa were folks are responding in HUGE evangelistic campaigns by the hundreds of thousands and ‘saved’ by the millions.

Dr. D. James Kennedy recently reported that his stats show that only 45% of Americans are really Christians (Ironically he Wrote 'Evangelism Explosion' the witnessing program). The reason we arrive at those claims is that the criteria for determining who is or is not a Christian is very obscure and quite unbiblical in most cases. Once the emphasis was placed on 'quantity' and not 'quality' of conversions- it became a numbers game. It has been said that in order to 'manage' one must be able to 'measure'. And the Evangelical Church has been numbering the people for over 100 years.

"NEW MEASURES" IN THE WRONG HANDS

Patrick McIntyre in his work [i]“The Scandal of Modern Evangelism”[/i] writes, “Finney believed most Ministers disliked the "new methods" because they were unwilling to call their congregations to repentance. He thought they used the "sovereignty of God" as an excuse for putting up with nominal Christianity." A cursory look at Finney's "Lectures on Revival" demonstrate this. Yet, it must be remembered that Finney was a very dedicated man of God who's personal standard of holiness was so high he considering the drinking of tea to be an extravagance. His sober countenance, (and perhaps the presence of the Holy Spirit), caused many to break down emotionally. He took the words of Jesus literally, and eschewed the lures of the world without compromise. Perhaps the "new measures" were appropriate to his complete devotion and trust in the power of God.

Finney believed folk should come out and demonstrate their repentance and faith. Like Elijah demanding "Who is on my side?" , or Joshua, "Choose this day who you will serve," his methods were a natural extension of his zeal. Finney did not compromise the born again standard. In fact, Finney was far more exacting than most conservative Evangelicals today ever hoped to be. His "False Comfort For Sinners" is perhaps the best guide ever written for ministers in dealing with the lost. But because the "new methods" appealed to the emotions, any persuasive charlatan (even a wolf in sheep's clothing) could use them with seemingly impressive results. Finney used whatever was at hand to bring a person to repentance and faith. He believed that a person could and MUST repent NOW.

[u]Everyone is not Charles G. Finney though.[/u] Where Finney might spend two weeks teaching on salvation before someone even got up and sat on the anxious seat; a lesser minister might try to convince sinners to come forward or to an after meeting after one sermon. Hence we witnessed the beginnings of new ‘measures’ being used in the beginning as a ‘good thing’, but would later be taken by folk and used with a halfhearted Gospel and the results are unimaginably horrifying. What a dangerous thing these new measures became in the hands of careless ministers.


FROM “HOPEFULLY CONVERTED” TO “SAVED” IN 39 YEARS
THE FIRST MODERN DAY ALTAR CALL

Some accounts tell us that as early as 1740's, Eleazer Wheelock, a Congregational Minister, had to stop preaching because he was drowned out by the "distress and outcry" of the congregation. "Not being able to finish his sermon, with great apparent serenity and calmness of soul, he called to the distressed, and desired that they gather themselves together in the body of the seats below" (The front seats). This is perhaps the beginnings of the modern "altar call". Wheelock is said to have only shared the Gospel and prayed for the penitents. He never presumed to have them repeat a formula "sinner's prayer." Over the next 200+ years the practice of public invitation would evolve into the modern day 'altar call' as has been witnessed hundreds of times in modern mass evangelism crusades. Some, in the early days, used the simple mourner's bench. Anxious meeting were held after the meeting or the next day for those who felt 'anxious' about their soul. Some preferred the "inquiry room", where they have the exercises of prayer for the lost, and the like. Praying for penitents, in itself, was not considered a "new method." It was common with Whitefield and Wesley. Any who sought prayer, were welcome to see them after the meeting. They prayed that penitents would yield themselves fully to God, but never led them in a formula "salvation prayer." By the 1800's, the practice of calling penitents forward for prayer was well established." Ministers usually, at the close of the preaching, would tell the congregation that if there were any persons who felt themselves lost and condemned under the guilt and burden of their sins, that if they would come near the stage, and kneel down, they would pray for them. Shame at first kept many back, but as the work increased, numbers, apparently under strong conviction, would come and fall down before the Lord at the feet of the ministers. Sometimes 20 or 30 at a time."

WHAT WAS DONE WAS DONE

McIntyre continues along this line, “Finney could not undo what he had done. The die was caste. All the clichés and quackery epitomized by Sinclair Lewis' Elmer Gantry began here. Charles Finney's methods, in the hands of incompetents and charlatans would ultimately produce millions of spurious conversions. The "methods" became the easiest way for ungifted and lazy men to produce "results."" It was like giving a gun to a six-year-old child. Evangelists like D.L. Moody used some "methods" to good effect. Others, less gifted, abused the "methods" and brought reproach on all evangelists. The "methods" were not widespread until Billy Sunday, the model for Lewis' Elmer Gantry. Though well meaning, Sunday popularized the tally system, emphasizing the number of people who "walked the sawdust trail" instead of how many people "the Lord added to the Church." Sunday popularized the practice of "coming forward" as a symbol for the sinner who wanted to "get right with God." Despite this, Sunday in the beginning still relied on the after meeting where counselors would deal with awakened sinners one-on-one. He never led people in a formula "salvation prayer.”

PREACHERS BECOMING CELEBRITIES

Perhaps we could lay much of the problem at the feet of the use of the modern day 'press'. When 'meetings' were advertised and covered in the newspapers suddenly there was an added pressure to have 'results'. After all, who wants to report that the meeting was a bust? D.L Moody preached his last sermon at the Great Convention Hall in Kansas City MO on November 16, 1899. his message title was, 'Excuses.' He died on December 22 of that same year, never seeing the 20th century. Before the days when Rex Humbard would become the father of modern day televangelism, D.L. Moody is credited with aiding in the development of the modern newspaper as they were used for creating the great wave of interest in this one very public evangelist and the meetings in general. Preachers were becoming celebrities and icons. Again, as with Finney, so with Moody, the 'new measures' of using the press was in itself not a bad thing. But is was like giving a six year old a gun for the incompetent. Some people simply cannot handle the popularity and the pressure to compromise becomes enormous for a host of reasons. Suddenly numbers were being printed in the papers. Attendances numbers and numbers of 'hopefully converted'. Notice the term again hopefully converted. This is as far as men dared to go in their reporting of numbers; but as with anything, the boldness to intrude into those things which we know not, vainly puffed up by fleshly minds, eventually took the place of reason.

Before we move to our next point I must again state the importance of understanding the 'pressure' of reporting positive results in the press. This pressure was no doubt a major cause of the erosion of the criteria degeneration for what it meant to be saved. The world was becoming 'quantity minded' and not quality minded. The industrial revolution was weighing in heavily to the whole philosophy of life. More, more, more... faster, faster, faster....

YOU CAN "MEET" A STAR

As the "altar call'' became more common, the numbers that came forward increased. During the 1800's, the act of going forward to receive prayer was never considered the means of salvation. But through the changing of generations, the Biblical understanding of the sovereignty of God was slowly replaced by a modern "quick-fix" mentality. The "struggle of faith" and "praying through" was replaced by signing your name on a decision card. Billy Sunday was a very popular professional baseball player before becoming a minister. His method of preaching broke the mold by any standard. At times he would even have a baseball bat on the platform and utilize it during the preaching. He started out in the beginning like D.L. Moody, with the emphasis on individual counseling in the after meeting. But by the end of his career this was fading or faded completely.
Billy Sunday asked folk to come forward to shake his hand as an indicator that they were turning to Christ. This marked a strong turning point in the way in which altar calls changed. Consider how he was a ball player and many wanted to 'shake his hand'. No doubt many were sincere also. Early reports in the 1800's suggested that only 10% of the persons who went forward in an altar call were "hopefully saved." As the decades past, the percentage grew to as much as 30%. Then, much later, the number might be 50%. Until finally, by 1918, the newspapers reporting that everyone who "hit the sawdust trail" to shake Billy Sunday's hand were saved. The objectivity was all but gone and the emphasis on folk actually being born of the Spirit was being replaced with a simple decision.

A QUICK LOOK BACK

Earlier we determined that it was Charles Finney's 'new measures' that fell into the hands of careless ministers that led us to where we are today with the de-emphasis on the new birth. However, Finney believed that when a person was truly converted they should make a public profession of their faith. This was a departure from previous methods that simply took a ‘wait and see’ approach. Finney believed that a person could be brought to salvation at once after they had gone through the process of conversion. While under great conviction the people were often invited to sit in the ‘anxious seat’ in the front of the meeting place. These people would be counseled and prayed for in the 'anxious meeting' that night or the next day. Sometimes he would go to their house. During the meetings Finney would occasionally ask the people to stand up if they intended to serve Christ. Other times he called them forward once there was some certainty that they were saved. Again, being intentionally redundant here the term you frequently see used is, ‘hopefully converted.’ Not knowing the hearts of men, it is impossible to fully know who is saved; but upon seeing fruits of repentance and verifiable and compelling evidence- Finney would consider them ‘hopefully converted.’

THE END OF 'HOPEFUL' CONVERSIONS

Since God doesn't change, only the definition of what it meant to be” saved" was slowly changing. By 1918, a newspaper reported, " CONVERTS RUSHED TO GRASP HANDS OF BILLY SUNDAY." According to the media, "Publicly acknowledging their belief in Jesus Christ as their savior, and expressing their repentance for sin, 425 men, women and children of all ages and types, surged down the sawdust trail to the platform at the tabernacle last night to grasp the hand of Billy Sunday and to be enrolled as professing Christians." 100% of the people who went forward were considered "saved" because of their singular act and supposed mindset. Lost in the frenzy was the Biblical teaching of the sovereignty of God and the born-again experience. The terminology "hopeful conversion" was lost by the end of Billy Sunday's career. Within a 39-year span, "hopeful conversions" were replaced with "X number of people got saved."

__________________________________________
Notes:


PATRICK MACINTYRE, “The Scandal of Modern Evangelism” ©2005

"The Effective Invitation" . R. Alan Streett c. 1984

The Wycliffe Bible Commentary Copyright (c) 1962 by Moody Press

Quote originally taken from G. Campbell Morgan “A First Century Message to Twentieth Century Christians”, pp. 40-42)

Adam Clarke commentary on Matthew 5:32.

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=194
Persecution every Christian's Lot. (2 Tim. 3:12) (George Whitfield 1700’s)

“Ten Shekels and a Shirt” (Paris Reidhead sermon +-1965)

CHARLES G. FINNEY (Lectures on Revival Series)

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