Revival vs Authentic Christianity?

Why do we pray for revival like it's something other than authentic Christianity?
Shouldn't we just pray for true Christianity?

I am on record somewhere on this site as saying that I regard revival as a return to authentic regeneration. However, that is not the whole story. As regards the individual it is a visitation of authentic regeneration but the classical revivals have also included a wider God-consciousness in local communities. Even people who were not regenerated became God-conscious.

Personal revival is a return to first-love but not all have left first love and some have never yet experienced first love.

Revival is God coming to meet with men, Revival is Christ in YOU the hope of glory.

Why do we call authentic Christianity, revival and false christianity, Christianity?

It seems that by praying for revival, we falsly distinguish between Christianity and revival.

I am on record somewhere on this site as saying that I regard revival as a return to authentic regeneration. However, that is not the whole story. As regards the individual it is a visitation of authentic regeneration but the classical revivals have also included a wider God-consciousness in local communities. Even people who were not regenerated became God-conscious.

Even people who were not regenerated became God-conscious.

Atmospheric pressure ...?

I regard revival as a return to authentic regeneration.

I think Ron's talent for refined brevity might allow the importance of his statement here to be passed over. ;-) Myself being a notoriously long-winded poster, who believes the weightiness of a topic must be weighed in words, couldn't let his comment slip by... :-D

Seriously, the modern notion that a revival is a supernatural 'microwaving' of cold, but nevertheless, true Christians is terribly misleading. Such thinking excuses common spiritual deadness and worldly appetites as agreeable, but just not preferrable to a true Christian. What is needed for revival is not a microwave, but a system shock that brings Gospel-immunized church members, some who even serve in visible ministry capacities, into a true understanding and experience of being born again.

The preaching record of Wesley, Whitefield, Edwards, and other revivalists shows that "almost Christianity" was a persistent concern, which suggests that it was a widespread condition of the church then. Today it is possible for a person to abide for many years in the church and think very little of the importance of their own regeneration.

Imagine hearing sermons today about obtaining regeneration with the urgency Jesus placed on obtaining the kingdom of God...that a wise man would sell all he has to buy the field just to hope to finally take possession of a priceless pearl... This is how vital true conversion was to those preachers of the Great Awakenings.

"There is such a thing as conversion,” said Edwards plainly in his sermon "Reality of Conversion." He was preaching this to his congregation, not to the "unsaved" on the street...

Jonathan Edwards never seemed to talk about that "come-and-go" moment at the altar that characterizes modern preaching. Instead he talked in strenuous terms of "seeking conversion" and "obtaining conversion" all the while picking up your cross even as you seek to obtain. Here is an excerpt from the sermon "Reality of Conversion" he preached to 'Christians" in 1740.

"You must submit to those things that seem to you to be hard things. You must never expect to be in a hopeful way to obtain conversion till you are brought to comply with those things that seem very hard to corrupt nature.

Many men study a great deal to find out a way how to obtain the kingdom of heaven easy, or how to make their salvation and their ease agree together...and many persons while they are busy employing themselves this way, suddenly drop down and sink into hell, and so all their projects and hopes come to an end....

Many of the commands of God in his holy word, seem hard sayings to men that seek conversion. They spend a great deal of time in thinking of them and endeavoring to find some excuse for their neglect of them, and may never yield to them.... But if you would obtain saving conversion, you must yield to those things that seem very hard to you."

It just seems they put a higher price on regeneration then we do today. The uniform goal of the true evangelicals, whether Arminian or Calvinist, was regeneration while today our uniform goal seems to be acceptance...as such I really fear that in our modern fuzzy churches, even in those clamoring for revival, there are many many accepted as spirit-filled 'born-again' Christians who are neither.

Personal revival is a return to first-love but not all have left first love and some have never yet experienced first love.

MC

I think Ron's talent for refined brevity might allow the importance of his statement here to be passed over. Myself being a notoriously long-winded poster, who believes the weightiness of a topic must be weighed in words, couldn't let his comment slip by...

"Loqacity" I believe is the word. It's ironic that I was just minutes ago dwelling on the same thing here MC and even another great brief thought from our dear brother Ron,

"[i]God's reasons[/i]"

But on the topic of long winded,

who believes the weightiness of a topic must be weighed in words

:-)

It just seems they put a higher price on regeneration then we do today. The uniform goal of the true evangelicals, whether Arminian or Calvinist, was regeneration while today our uniform goal seems to be acceptance...

Change

Seems the word embedded these days. Daily, hourly. Change of mind, change of intent, change of motive. Another consideration, another overlooked 'principle' not worked through into life. Great possibilities every minute.

[i]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.[/i] Rom 12:2

Regeneration and transformation ... Revival
Seem to be closely linked.

Shouldn't we just pray for true Christianity?

Some of you may have gathered from past posts that I tend to get antsy about our fixation on words. Here we have another word: Christianity. I don’t think the word Christianity was ever used biblically or historically to define Christ-following. According to the dictionary Christianity means: “the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches.” I prefer to leave the use of this broad-spectrum term within its dictionary definition. Christianity is not what Christ taught or brought to this world. It is just as antagonistic to the gospel as any world religion. I am a follower of Christ, not Christianity, even though I am under that umbrella by virtue of my religious association.

What about the word, revival? Personally, I think this word has lost so much ground that I’d prefer to avoid it and try to express what I really mean…. And, oh dear, I’m having trouble doing that!

I do like the word regeneration to express what we need. That word hasn’t met the fate of so many related terms. It hasn’t been abused to death. You don’t find it in too many hymns, or liturgical readings. So it has purity – for now. But alas, that word likely means nothing to most pew-dwellers.

Sermonindex said:

We need God not form, we need God not formula's, we need God not fantism, we need God not forgiveness

Please forgive me while I talk about myself for a minute. But hopefully it will illustrate the challenge of defining what we need in our world. I admit, I need something, but can’t find the “right” word for it. I struggle with split loyalties – I want to be loyal to God, but also I fear that the comforts of this world are lulling me and weakening my loyalty to God. Only God knows to what extent.

In my prayers I struggle even with knowing what to ask God for. Praying for personal revival feels empty. (what’s that anyway?) Actually, I am sensing God challenging me in a new way. He doesn’t want me to sit back and wait for him to do something to me or for me, or repeat what he has done in the past. He is saying, “ I have given you what you need (2 Pet. 1:3ff) The ball is in your court. You will go after what you REALLY want.” That’s when I realize that I prefer food more than fasting and prayer… etc. I see how I’m so stuck in my habits and comfort zones. I see my lack of self-discipline and focused direction. Oh, Woe is me! May God please help me out!

Finney allowed people to fully experience their pitiful condition before he offered the way out – and that seems to be how God keeps on working in my life. It is not a case of telling God what I or need as much as simply seeing how needy I really am, and experiencing my own desperation.

And I don’t think I am any different than anyone else. Yes, I need God, and so do we all, but even that notion means many different things in the minds of people.

We have so many needs. The needs in our society cover a vast array – we need regeneration, we need stronger leaders, we need prayer, we need repentance, we need humility, we need God (but we have him) …………………….

May God have mercy on us all! And that’s what we need for sure!

“… I will build my church and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” Matt. 16:18

Diane

I heard it said once that personal revival is when we finally liquidate our love and redistribute it according to proper (right) priorities. I heard the definition of 'whoredom' was to take the love that belongs to the one and give it to another. When we take the love that belongs to God and give it to other 'things' we need personal revival. When we take the love that rightly belongs to our spouse and kids and give it to 'something else' we need revival.

Things take hold of our affections and soon we have redistributed our love. We have taken from one and given to another. Theoretically we only have so much 'love' we can express as we are finite beings. We need to distribute that love rightly and properly proportioned. I believe God resets this 'balance' when one comes into personal revival.

RobertW on 2006/9/1 20:34:23

I believe God resets this 'balance' when one comes into personal revival.

This phrase captured my attention. I have a theory. I commented that in times of classical revival many are restrained and subdued that are never regenerated. I have observed, by reading history, that at times of 'revival' the social conscience of a locality or even a nation is re-sensitized.

It is almost as if the corporate conscience is 're-set'; hence my quoting Robert above. I think this is another pointer to something extra to authentic regeneration/true christianity taking place.

There have been times of sovereign God-consciousness and, although I struggle to find a biblical theology for the phenomena, I do believe in 'revival'. (not the kind that is advertized on a bill-board)

Why do we separate revival and true Christianity like they are two different things? Isn't that demeaning to Christianity and giving false hopes to those who are not in a state of "revival"? When they are not Christians at all and doomed to Hell? This whole idea that revival and Christianity are two different things is really bothering me.

And for those of you fixed on words, I am using Christianity as Biblical Christianity, or following of Jesus Christ. Sheesh!

AMEN! Compton, so why are we careless with our language to call revival Christianity, and something that is not Christianity Christianity?

Shouldn't we fix this greivous error?

And for those of you fixed on words, I am using Christianity as Biblical Christianity, or following of Jesus Christ. Sheesh!

To back track, I have recently been wondering if my music minister job at a Presbyterian church was soon coming to an end. I see so much “dead wood”. I can’t imagine them changing. They are stuck in their old-fashioned religious conservatism combined with liberal theological influence.

Yesterday, my return from a few weeks away met a very unexpected surprise. Prior to the service my minister engaged me in a touch-base conversation (I go early to practice). I shared a recent personal experience. To her amazement, it was the perfect illustration for her sermon so she asked me to share it after her sermon. Now, please realize, that such a thing is unheard of in this Presby church. It has never been done before. They don’t even have a word for it. No one ever spontaneously gets up and talks about something personal (!) - let alone speaks without first writing it out.

Anyway, she preached on hypocrisy and the need to CHANGE - and though she calmly read it, it was a shaker all right. In fact, I dare say, it was the best sermon on hypocrisy that I heard in any of the churches I've ever been in.

So, what was that all? It seemed like a stirring of the Spirit – a heightened God-consciousness in the heart of my minister. It was genuine.. authentic… but we're a long way from ideal Christianity.

I feel it best to refrain from evangelical jargon: testimony, move of the Spirit, etc etc. Only God knows where this “thing” will go.

The word, hypocrisy , I’ll keep, for sure. It’s a good one.

Diane

Apology not needed, but accepted. :-) Thanks for being humble. The "sheesh!" was to be taken lightly, but I'm sure you had no way of knowing that.

Christianos is Greek and a Biblical word. It is translated Christian. It means follower of Christ. Christianity means "the Christian religion".

I am a Christian, and I long to see authentic Christianity.