Biblical Relationships

sermonindex Sep 6, 2006

I just finished listening to a sermon by Paul Washer about Biblical Manhood. I was absolutely shocked to find out how ignorant I have been all this time about Biblical precedents for relationships. I have always listened to and watched how it works in the world (which isn't much different than the Christian communities I am a part of).

I am asking anyone who knows anything about this subject to post and give me guidance as to what Biblical courting involves. This is particularly relevant to me because I am currently in a relationship with someone who I call my "girlfriend." As I was listening, I fell under conviction that there are so many ways that I have gone about things wrong and I am asking God to reveal to me how it is supposed to be and how I can repent.

Since I failed to ask God what His Biblical way is in all of this, I have put the relationship on the altar. I am fearful of what the outcome may be but I am dedicated to following the way of the Lord, and I need prayer. This is a girl I care about so deeply and dream about marrying. Please help me gain a Biblical understanding of how a man should pursue a woman.

Endless Love.

-K DAY

sermonindex Sep 6, 2006

Here are the audio files this brother is responding to:

~~[b]~~(Biblical Manhood) -evening banquet[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13055

~~[b]~~(Biblical Manhood) -morning brunch[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13054

More Paul Washer sermons here: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=442

sermonindex Sep 6, 2006

Here is another sermon possibly on the same topic:

~~[b]~~Be a Man (At Home and At Church)[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13070

sermonindex Sep 6, 2006

Maybe I could post a more general question that could help me understand this better:

What are the differences between a courting relationship and a dating relationship?

-K DAY

sermonindex Sep 7, 2006

"courting relationship and a dating relationship?"

Courtship is biblical. Dating is not. I would like to see a more fuller discussion result on this thread with biblical references etc. Great question brother.

sermonindex Sep 7, 2006

Courtship is biblical. Dating is not.

Yes, this seems to be the consensus that I am hearing from the Godly people I have been consulting about this. I need to start more basic though: What does courting look like in the first place? Why is this the Biblical way? I am shocked how in the dark I have been about this. I hardly even knew courting existed 2 days ago, let alone what it is...

sermonindex Sep 7, 2006

I would love some responses from people who have a good grasp on this. Last night I broke up with my "girlfriend" of a long time because I fell under strong conviction that "dating" is not a Biblical institution. It was an extremely hard thing to do, but I desire to repent from all wordly things in my life. Now, more than ever, "what is the Biblical precedent" is an extremely relevant question on my mind. Any help here?

-K DAY

G

ginnyrose Sep 8, 2006

K-Day,

I did a search on the web for "Biblical Courtship" and numerous sites came up, most of which were selling books dealing with this issue. I got a few links here that may help you get started. I did not study them thoroughly but they look helpful. But like anything else, you will need to use discernment.

http://www.courtshipconnection.com/courtship2.html

http://www.courtshipconnection.net/bok/StarterFAQ.html

http://www.curriculumconnection.net/biblical%20courtship.htm

God bless you in your diligence in serving Him. Your testimony is so refreshing!

ginnyrose

B

BeYeDoers Sep 8, 2006

i just finished listening to the first Washer sermon that Greg posted. Loved and understood most of it. A few questions though:

1. I'm 22 and in professional school with people from all over the country (and other countries) from ages 21 through mid 30s. Let's say there is a biblical woman that I am attracted to and I have met the "criteria" for pure motives and seeking the wisdom of my father and spiritual leaders. I know absolutely nothing about her father other than fact that he lives more than 1000 miles from me. Due to privacy, there is absolutely no way for me to even find out his name to get his phone number or address. She is the only person allowed to disclose that information, which I can't get from her if I follow all of Paul Washer's biblical advice. The question is am I just supposed to assume that since I can't contact her father or even find out who he is that such a thing isn't from God?

2. where are we commanded in scripture to never spend any alone time with the opposite sex? even in listening to his baking cookies example, I don't see how he would have been violating scripture.

T

TaylorOtwell Sep 8, 2006

I don't think he was saying being alone with them is necessarily unBiblical, but rather could lead to a compromising situation, I guess depending on how well you are able to control yourself and your emotions.

Some things about courtship that I have heard is that:

1) Only be courting someone you seriously think you might marry. If at any time you know that you can't marry that person, end the courtship.

2) Personally, I will not kiss until my wedding day, because, if we don't get married, I am defrauding the future husband of that kiss to his own wife. I wouldn't cuddle up either... I am still debating holding hands? What do you guys think?

3) Never even give the appearance that something immoral could be going on, even if your own hearts are pure, you can't even give other people room to guess.

4) Be mature enough to be a spiritual leader to the woman.

Those are just a few things I have heard.

G

ginnyrose Sep 8, 2006

Taylor,

Go for it! You will never regret it! I promise. Now the problem will be to find someone who shares your value system...but God knows where that person is, so wait on him and do not run ahead of Him.

Evangelist Andrew Jantzi (now deceased) used to say about women wanting to marry: "some women get so desperate they will take anything in pants. After they get him they wish all they had was the pants!"

Have a blessed day!

ginnyrose

sermonindex Sep 9, 2006

I have been learning quite a bit about this subject the last few days. I will share a few observations I have been making.

One of the main problems with dating (apart from it not being scriptural..) is that it is a false commitment. From day one, there are things that are required in this sort of relationship, although the two people are not married. So then, the seriousness of the relationship is guaged by pre-established roles that the world says are required within this relationship (e.g., calling everyday, anniversaries, saying I love you, etc.).

Alternatively, istead of acting out of obligation because of what dating requires, it is better for two people to grow together, mutually encouraging one another towards Christ. Ultimately, if they are growing so close in the same direction, the obvious next step is marriage. The commitment they have comes from an over-flowing of the heart and a developed empathy for one another - not rules given by the constructs of dating. Their focus, instead, has been on becomming best friends, which is a much stronger foundation.

As far as physically, I am still not sure what, if anything is appropriate. I do know that physicality often falsely creates intimacy when the rest of the relationship remains shallow. Here is an interesting quote I saw on a blog I was reading about this:

Deep friendship is definitely a key part of a relationship- without it, relationships rarely last, or if they do they are not very healthy. And if affection/physicality is used to fill the friendship-hole in the relationship or to avoid working through problems, that can create disastrous issues. However, healthy physicality (within resasonable bounds) can be a very potent and pure way of showing your devotion to/ appreciation for/ love for a person, including who they are inside.

What do you think?

-K DAY

sermonindex Sep 9, 2006

What's wrong with dating and what is courtship?

sermonindex Sep 19, 2006

I am really seeking some Godly counsel on this whole issue of relationships. How does it work? If you are married, how did you go about pursuing your partner? Are there examples in scripture that give us a Biblical precedent? Please respond if you have wisdom, as these are all questions that are immediately relevant in my life.

-K DAY

M

MSeaman Sep 19, 2006

Josh Harris wrote a book called "I kissed dating goodbye." Perhaps you could look at that, it discusses courting vs dating. he has a website joshharris.com.