An article I found

I found this article only a moment ago, and suddenly I feel my spirit stirred and uneasy, although I know not why.

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/counterfeit.html

This article lists 25 points describing how you can spot a counterfeit Bible. I read it and feel uncomfortable. I know that personally, when God wants to say something to me or is speaking to me, my spirit always stirs and I feel so incredibly uneasy.

I read this article and, I must say, some of the points I read didn't seem to be harmful. For example, point 1 says:

1. Genesis 22:8
The counterfeits change ". . . My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:. . ." to distort the prophesy that God would become the Lamb. The counterfeits read as, "God will provide for Himself the lamb. . ." or "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering". The fulfillment of Genesis 22:8 is found in John 1:29.

What is wrong with the variations of this verse? Forgive me for my possible ignorance, there may be something blatantly wrong with what, for example, the NIV has changed this verse to. However, I cannot see it.

Please help, your thoughts would be appreciated and I will pray about this also.

Since I recommended the site I will add a comment. I agree with alot of the material on this site BUT NOT ALL OF IT.

Concerning this point about Gen, I don't know if that is a biggy to be concerned about. Meaning I don't know the full significants if any of that particular rewording. Maybe it is.
However there is much more info on the counterfiet bible subject that I believe is accurate.
Having said that I am a King James "preffered" not a KING JAMES ONLY. For what it's worth. God bless John

richardf wrote:
I found this article only a moment ago, and suddenly I feel my spirit stirred and uneasy, although I know not why.

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/counterfeit.html

This article lists 25 points describing how you can spot a counterfeit Bible. I read it and feel uncomfortable. I know that personally, when God wants to say something to me or is speaking to me, my spirit always stirs and I feel so incredibly uneasy.

I read this article and, I must say, some of the points I read didn't seem to be harmful. For example, point 1 says:

1. Genesis 22:8
The counterfeits change ". . . My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:. . ." to distort the prophesy that God would become the Lamb. The counterfeits read as, "God will provide for Himself the lamb. . ." or "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering". The fulfillment of Genesis 22:8 is found in John 1:29.

What is wrong with the variations of this verse? Forgive me for my possible ignorance, there may be something blatantly wrong with what, for example, the NIV has changed this verse to. However, I cannot see it.

Please help, your thoughts would be appreciated and I will pray about this also.

One interpretation would have it that God becomes the Lamb while the other states He will only provide it. BIG difference. Which one you accept as truth depends upon which side of the aisle of orthodoxy you embrace. Was Jesus God hanging on the cross or was He God's perfect Man, full of His Father, laying down His life for His sheep?

Clue: If He was God then I can never be like Him.

Orm

ginnyrose wrote:
Orm, you wrote:

Clue: If He was God then I can never be like Him.

Are you saying you do not believe Jesus was God?

ginnyrose

I believe He was the fulfillment of God in His flesh; God's full intention; His full expression of Himself in man. That is why Jesus always took the subservient role when speaking of God as His Father.
God, who sees only in the present tense, since there is no time in Him, could readily say this is My Beloved Son in Whom I AM well pleased without even the mission being accomplished. In His foreknowledge, it already was. However, in the actuality of time as we know it, it wasn't completed until Jesus' mount Transfiguration experience. Then He came down from the mount to make it possible for us to accomplish the same thing. (cf John17)

In Heaven the Christ of God now inhabits a new Body, of flesh.

Respectfully,
Orm

enid wrote:
It is obvious that this is going to lead into a yet another 'King James' debate. So here I go.

All I want to ask is this. Someone who does not use a King James bible, will they go to hell?
If they will, where is the scriptural proof for that? If they won't, what difference does it make which translation they use?

As it is, for the first 7 years I was saved I used a King James. For the last 17 years I have used a New King James.

For what it is worth, there are people I know who used a King James bible, they still backslid.
There are people I know who have never used one and are still serving God.

So what difference does it make which translation you use if in the end you backslide and end up in hell anyway?

If it bothers someone which translation they use, then change it, but keep serving God.

That's my two bits. God bless.

Heaven and hell is not the issue. Becoming a son of the Father, is.

Compare these two verses. You will find a BIG difference:

First the NAS and others who follow suit:

Galatians 2:20
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Then the KJV:

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Two tiny preps make the difference. Can you see them?

Orm

If you are a Christian heaven is the only place you can go when you die. So what is the BIG deal about hell being an issue, unless you aren't a Christian?

As far as other translations are concerned, they aren't a concern for me in my walk with the Lord. I know what the message of Jesus Christ about an can discern between truth and error; weakness and strength.
I might point out that heaven wasn't an issue for Peter, Paul and John, either.
Heaven should never be the goal in a Christians life since it is a settled issue by the very life of Christ residing within.

Orm

richardf,

The thing which strikes me about this particular example, (point 1, which you give) is that while John the Baptist, (Jesus' cousin in the flesh) identifies Jesus as the one of whom He (God the Father) had warned him, John the disciple is the one (who with Andrew had been a disciple of JB, who left following JB to follow Jesus after JB had said 'the lamb which takes away the sin of the world'), who points out afterwards, that Jesus had become the Lamb [i][b]slain from the foundation of the world[/b][/i] (Rev 13:8).

What I'm saying, simply, is, that in eternity - the ever-present tense, as Ormly pointed out - the Son was [i]already[/i] the Lamb, before He became the Word made Flesh.

In other words, God becoming the Lamb was never in doubt, as it had been established before the world existed.

The quote you give of point 1, strikes me as a [i]fleshly[/i] reading of scripture, limited to the superficial understanding of the natural mind. I believe the Holy Spirit is able to enlighten one's understanding of scripture, despite occasionally unhelpful choices of words in translations. This is why the KJV has stood the test of time. Something about the simplicity of certain of the words (such as its use of the word 'know', for instance), give God the ability to speak right through it, straight into the spirit of a man.

enid wrote:
Thank God that heaven isn't an issue for Christians. However, there are those caught in the throes of self-deception, who do read their bibles, who are not on the road to heaven. It might not be a personal concern, but it is a concern, even unknowingly, for those who read the word, but do not act upon it. In other words, unbelief.

Let's ask God for the heart and desire to see the lost won to Him before it is too late, because one day it will be too late. God bless.

But that is presumption, my friend, unless you have insight into some whom you personally know. However, I do know what you are saying is a fact because of family who did exactly that. Yet I expect them to be in heaven. Why? Because they did read their Bibles on a daily basis and they prayed, faithly. One in particular prayed for me every night. Yet, one could never have a meaningful discourse with them concerning the things of God. Good United Methodist' all....and all have passed on.

Do I believe they were saved, charitable, respectful-mindful of the things of God? Yes. Do I believe they were born again? Most emphatically, no.....Though I do want to believe one has special favor with the Lord.

:-(

What I'm saying, simply, is, that in eternity - the ever-present tense, as Ormly pointed out - the Son was already the Lamb, before He became the Word made Flesh.

In other words, God becoming the Lamb was never in doubt, as it had been established before the world existed.

Easy here. The Son was of Mary. The Christ of Heaven from eternity was the very Expression of God. He was/is the Word. In the Heart of God, the expression of His Heart would be made flesh and be born, as a Son, of the virgin Mary. The Flesh of the Expression gave Himself as the Lamb. It was the perfect flesh, full of the Expression of the Father, who was the Lamb. The Christ of that Flesh was what made that Flesh equal to God when it hung on the cross, thus cancelling out the stain of Adam.

Halleluyah to the Lamb!

:-D:-D

ginnyrose wrote:
Orm,

Easy here. The Son was of Mary. The Christ of Heaven from eternity was the very Expression of God. He was/is the Word. In the Heart of God, the expression of His Heart would be made flesh and be born, as a Son, of the virgin Mary. The Flesh of the Expression gave Himself as the Lamb. It was the perfect flesh, full of the Expression of the Father, who was the Lamb. The Christ of that Flesh was what made that Flesh equal to God when it hung on the cross, thus cancelling out the stain of Adam.

You again use language that is not found in traditional theological writings concerning the divinity of Jesus. At best it is ambigious!

I ask you: did Jesus exist before his birth to Mary? Was he divine?

ginnyrose

It is NOt ambigious. It is quite theological.

You question: "did Jesus exist before his birth to Mary?"

In the Mind, Heart and purposes of God, the Father, Yes. In the Light of His Reality, Yes. In actuality, NO, not until He was born by the young maiden named Mary. That's not arguable.

Question 2:Was he divine?

In the Mind, Heart and purposes of God, the Father, Yes. In the Light of that Reality, Yes. In actuality, NO, not until He was Glorified. The Mount Transfiguration evidenced His Divinity. That was His graduation day. His nailed scarred hands never existed in Heaven until He ascended from this earth after the cross..

In Reality, time is not a factor. God's time is never our time and is always expressed in the present tense. If He said to you, "You are" and you know you aren't, it is in His foreknowledge He speaks, and you will be.

:-)

Ormly I cannot help but jump in however this discussion should probably go to a new thread.
I ask you this and please give me the simplest straight answer you can.
Did Jesus pre exist as a Divine person,God the Word, second person of the Godhead, prior to humbling himself and becoming a man?
Also as the prexisting Word or logos of God did He and His Father counsel with one another? God bless, John