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Thought some of you might find this one ammusing...
Have a look at this as well --> [url=http://www.sacredsandwich.com/warren_scripture.htm]A commentory on Rick Warren's Use of scripture
Walko
That is pretty funny.
I have never felt like God was drawing me to this series. I avoided it when our church did it. I don't make a big deal about it, but when I see every church grab onto something so fast, and there are still no visible results in the community or the church months/years after, for the most part, something tells me it is a big money-maker for someone.
Giving Warren the benefit of the doubt, I think the best case scenario is that he isn't scholarly, doesn't want to be, but wants to promote God as best he can, without focusing on sin, law, righteousness, judgement, repentance and hell (the 7 no-no's of 'do you want to make sure you make lots of money into today's Christian market').
So I think when one says 'all Bibles are fine,' you run into problems. As well, when one says, 'all teaching is fine,' when Jesus specifically told the Pharisees that they promoted the matters of the law that should not be focused on, but rather should have focused on 'judgment, mercy, and faith.' The problem is, now people teach mercy and faith with no judgment.
I read about one chapter of the book, and was pretty much bored, but here is my guess, someone tell me I am wrong, please:
His book has little or nothing on:
hell
genuine repentance, and the preaching thereof
future punishment
the Judgment Seat of Christ
dying to self
being filled with the Holy Ghost
sin and how it hinders the Christian walk
laziness of the modern church
persecution for being Christ-like
travailing/intercessory/importunate prayer
false teachers/prophets
etc, etc, etc
The thing that really bites me about his materials is the thorough lack of hermeneutics. He chooses passages that justify his ideas and when he can’t find one in a literal translation he chooses a paraphrase that does cover it. Many of his uses of scripture are out of context, only partially there (ie uses half a verse) or just plain heretical (ie a paraphrase is the only version that conveys what he is trying to say). If you want a good source to discredit the Message look at [url=http://www.crossroad.to/Bible_studies/Message.html]What kind of message is 'The Message'?
It disturbs me that so many churches are using this stuff. I read purpose driven life with our church and although I agree with his 5 purposes (pretty much), the majority of the rest of the teaching stinks. It is all about life enhancement and prosperity with more of a basis in modern philosophy and the new age than the Word of God. I only got about 5 days through the follow up series 40 days of Community (the book ‘Better Together’) In day 5 he gives a ‘call to become a Christian’ and completely leaves out 95% of the message. At this point I moved the book from the Christian section of my bookshelf to the same section as the Koran, the Book of Mormon and my other books on other religions.
We need to fight these heresies in the church but we also need to be careful how we fight them. If we go in guns blazing, we won’t achieve much but if we go in carefully we can bring our brothers and sisters around.
Andrew
Who ever wrote the commentary could stand alittle rectification from the scripture, as well.
:-(
Amusing? It's hilarious! Someone bought me the book. Took two years to read 22 chapters. Still haven't read the rest. Don't intend to.
God bless.
Love it! Thought about reading after a lukewarm co-worker and his church were reading it. Thought it would get me into some interesting conversations. Purchased it at Wal-Mart and returned it the same week without reading. In the end I thought, "What in the world am I doing reading the next new 'Christian' best-seller?" Not too far from "What on Earth am I reading this for?" I've heard of people who thought it was good. Most have said not worth the paper it's printed on.
They ought to put a label on these things:
"WARNING: I CASE YOUR SPENDING MORE TIME ON THIS TRASH INSTEAD OF GODS WORD--REPENT!"
That's funny, frightening and sad all at the same time.
I haven't read it myself becuase I just can't get past the word "driven". Something repells me. A friend of mine made the comment that if this book is of the Lord why use a word like driven? We are lead, not driven.
On the other hand, I have friends who really were encouraged by the book.
But, something doesn't sit right with me on it and I find the comments from others seem to reflect the same thing.
Bereangirl
My whole problem with it is that if they have sold so many copies of it, and they sell it at such random stores like staples, where is the Revival. If so many people were encountered with the Gospel, wouldn't we see the biggest Revival ever?
I think that what all you have to say is very interesting. Everyone has a point to make and everyone has a truth to what they say, just as Rick Warren. True, some of the ways he does things and brings them over arent right, or true, but what I felt as I was reading the book was that the book was more for someone that is already a Christian and not for someone that has no clue what being a Christian was about. Every Christian knows that along with being a Christian will come persecution and hardships, along with judgement. But some Christians need to be built up in there faith by other means at the time. Some have pain in their lives and need to hear exactly what he had to say. Once a person is built up, he can then truly start the Christian life.
What most of you are saying, or at least what it sounds like, reminds me a lot of the story of Job. Job knew about judgement and punishment and all that stuff. What he needed was to be built up and not to here from his friends that he messed up and that 'he was going to hell' because he wasn't. He was a Christian and he knew about all that stuff.
A church needs to be built up and shown the goodness of God because I believe many people and churches in todays world have lost that. People dont truly understand Gods goodness anymore and are confused in their faith and with God.
As the books title says, 'The Purpose Driven Life,' not the judgement driven life. Our purpose on earth, is not to be judged. Our purpose is love, peace, fellowship, etc. All of which the book talks about.
First people have to understand those things like love, before they can begin to love. They have to understand their purpose, not there sin, or their judgement.
We all sin and most of the time we feel miserable for that. No one has to tell me that I need to be sorry for something that I feel miserable for. I already know that Im sorry! But what we dont always feel, is Gods love and we need to be shown that He is always there.
I think that is what most people missed as they were reading the book.
Yes indeed. Rick Warren and his "Purpose Driven" deception surely is fiction! He's nothing more than a modern day gnostic! Any man that will take the context of God's holy scriptures and twist them to fit their own agenda is nothing but a "wolf in sheep's clothing" as Christ himself said. God Bless yall!
The Evangelist ;-)
Why are some Christians so defensive of Rick Warren's materials? I have also been discussing his stuff on another forum connected with my ministry and the other people there are ready to defend him tooth and nail. They think that his material is brilliant and that it doesn't matter that he is using the message and similar texts.
So Frustrating...
Walko
This was sent to me the other day from a friend in Irag. I have no comment on Rick or the book, and haven't read the book. I take rhe following is acccurate, but don't know where it originated.
...............................
You will enjoy the new insights that Rick Warren has with his wife now having cancer and him having "wealth" from the book sales.
This is an absolutely incredible short interview with Rick Warren, "Purpose Driven Life" author, and pastor of Saddleback Church in California.
In the interview by Paul Bradshaw with Rick Warren, Rick said:
People ask me, What is the purpose of life? And I respond: In a nutshell, life is preparation for eternity. We were made to last forever, and God wants us to be with Him in Heaven.
One day my heart is going to stop, and that will be the end of my body--but not the end of me.
I may live 60 to 100 years on earth, but I am going to spend trillions years in eternity. This is the warm-up act - the dress rehearsal of God wants us to practice on earth what we will do forever! in eternity. We were made by God and for God, and until you figure that out, life isn't going to make sense.
Life is a series of problems: Either you are in one now, you're just coming out of one, or you're getting ready to go into another one.
The reason for this is that God is more interested in your character than your comfort.
God is more interested in making your life holy than He is in making your life happy.
We can be reasonably happy here on earth, but that's not the goal of life. The goal is to grow in character, in Christ likeness.
This past year has been the greatest year of my life but also the toughest, with my wife, Kay, getting cancer.
I used to think that life was hills and valleys - you go through a dark time, then you go to the mountaintop, back and forth. I don't believe that anymore.
Rather than life being hills and valleys, I believe that it's kind of like two rails on a railroad track, and at all times you have something good and something bad in your life.
No matter how good things are in your life, there is always something bad that needs to be worked on.
And no matter how bad things are in your life, there is always something good for which you can thank God.
You can focus on your purposes, or you can focus on your problems.
If you focus on your problems, you're going into self-centeredness, "which is my problem, my issues, my pain."
But one of the easiest ways to get rid of pain is to get your focus off yourself and onto God and others.
We discovered quickly that in spite of the prayers of hundreds of thousands of people, God was not going to heal Kay or make it easy for her.
It has been very difficult for her, and yet God has strengthened her character, given her a ministry of helping other people, given her a testimony, drawn her closer to Him and to people.
You have to learn to deal with both the good and the bad of life. Actually, sometimes learning to deal! with the good is harder. For instance, this past year, all of a sudden, when the book sold 15 million copies, it made me instantly very wealthy.
It also brought a lot of notoriety that I had never had to deal with before. I don't think God gives you money or notoriety for your own ego or for you to live a life of ease.
So I began to ask God what He wanted me to do with this money, notoriety and influence. He gave me two different passages that helped me decide what to do, II Corinthians 9 and Psalm 72.
First, in spite of all the money coming in, we would not change our lifestyle one bit. We made no major purchases.
Second, about midway through last year, I stopped taking a salary from the church.
Third, we set up foundations to fund an initiative we call The Peace Plan to plant churches, equip leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick, and educate the next generation.
Fourth, I added up all that the church had paid me in the 24 years since I started the church, and I gave it all back. It was liberating to be able to serve God for free.
We need to ask ourselves: Am I going to live for possessions? Popularity?
Am I going to be driven by pressures? Guilt? Bitterness? Materialism?
Or am I going to be driven by God's purposes (for my life)?
When I get up in the morning, I sit on the side of my bed and say, God, if I don't get anything else done today, I want to know You more and love You better.
God didn't put me on earth just to fulfill a to-do list. He's more interested in what I am than what I do. That's why we're called human beings, not human doings.
Happy moments, PRAISE GOD.
Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.
Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.
Painful moments, TRUST GOD.
Every moment, THANK GOD.
This is beautiful and food for the soul. A friend sent it to me, and I would like to share it with y'all.
Why are some Christians so defensive of Rick Warren's materials?
Walko, great question that needs to be honestly answered on both sides (for or against) using God's Word and logic. I have noticed in the Bible that Jesus always used the Word of God and logic to answer His questioners.
I am no defender of Warren. I believe that his teachings are actually dangerous. For instance in his book [i]The Purpose Driven Church[b]then
Then there is the chapter that Warren becomes the self-appointed High Priest of pragmatism where he says, "I'm in favor of any method that reaches at least one person for Christ - as long as it is ethical" (page 156). You see, here is the problem: many methods are ethical but are and would still be nothing short of operating in the flesh and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
What makes Warren's teachings so appealing to so many is that it [b]seems
Rick Warren has many good things to say but what I have discovered in his books is that it doesn't take him long to contradict his "good statements." For example he says that church health is the issue, not church growth." I agree with that statement 100%. Warren then goes on to equate church health with the ability to reproduce. I disagree with that statement 100%. Here are the reasons I disagree: (1) unhealthy organisms can reproduce - a lady with AIDS can reproduce and what will she have? A baby with AIDS! Reproduction does not necessarily indicate health. (2) Unhealthy churches and cults can reproduce - the law of God determines that each produce after its kind - so the bad tree cannot produce good fruit - [b]but it can produce
"But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false prophets among you, [b]who will secretly introduce destructive heresies
Grace and peace
Olan
The only two valid criticisms of Rick Warren that I have heard are:
1) Use of the paraphrase version of the Bible: The Message.
2) Purpose Driven Church: Committee runs roughshod over the congregation in changing the style of worship.
But I find nothing wrong with the substance of the 40 chapters that comprises the book, Purpose Driven Life.
I found a funny parody about Purpose Driven here:
http://larknews.com/may_2005/secondary.php?page=1
Think The Onion for the church crowd.
Oh Abba Father, here we go again.
Thanks for your insights OverSeer. I think you made some great points. I am still really battling wih some of my Christian friends about this issue because they don't see any real problem with his teachings. It's so frustrating to see a real problem in a teaching and people just don't want to look at the issue.
Walko
It's so frustrating to see a real problem in a teaching and people just don't want to look at the issue.
I feel your frustration and have experienced it many times. It's part of the call. The Lord will open your eyes to see truths (and errors) that others either cannot or will not see. The frustration is compounded when the error is coming from someone seen by the majority as "God's man for the hour."
The Lord has graciously allowed me to share with my congregation the errors of the "Purpose Driven" teachings. He did it in such a way that it is now no problem to guard the doctrine and keep that nonsense out of our midst.
I would recommend a book entitled [i]Fool's Gold? Discerning Truth in an Age of Error[i]The Purpose Driven Life
There are a few article links on our website that are evaluations of [i]The Purpose Driven Life[i]The Truth About False Prophets
Grace and peace
Olan
http://www.devcobaptist.org./404-1.html
The Web site cannot be found
The Web site you are looking for is unavailable due to its identification configuration settings.
Maybe you misstyped something.
I am not a big fan on Purpose Driven but don't understand the venom towards it. I listed the two problems I have with it in a previous post. I just do not buy this arguement that the teachings in th e book depend on The Message version of the Bible which he uses. I am not defending him, I just want someone to point out the errors of his teachings.
deltete
TrueWitness wrote:
http://www.devcobaptist.org./404-1.htmlThe Web site cannot be found
The Web site you are looking for is unavailable due to its identification configuration settings.Maybe you misstyped something.
I am not a big fan on Purpose Driven but don't understand the venom towards it. I listed the two problems I have with it in a previous post. I just do not buy this arguement that the teachings in th e book depend on The Message version of the Bible which he uses. I am not defending him, I just want someone to point out the errors of his teachings.
it is because of the period at the end.
try this: www.devcobaptist.org
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