The Rapture

It is going to happen son. You can see the events starting to unfold beore our eyes just as Jesus Christ said it would. So are you ready or will you be let behind? From: :-o

[url="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7344860031450026981&hl=en">]The Rapture[/url]

True that!

Your right Revolution its soon. I expect it at any time. Listen to this fulfillment of Matthew 24:7 concerning earthquakes...

14th century 157
15th 174
16th 253
17th 278
18th 640
19th 2,119
20th 900,000 or one every hour!

These quakes are so high in number now that surely we are at the end.

Maranatha!

bro Doug

(Note: Not sure if this part is correct. These are quakes that killed at least 10,000 people.)

Dorcas,

Where I got this info from gave a little more to this statistic than that. These are quakes that killed 10,000 or more people. I cant say 100% that this is infallible but I'm sure it could be checked out. I didn't post it at first but maybe I should have.

bro Doug

bro doug
i took a look at the scripture which you quoted concerning the earthquakes.i would not say that the rapture is at hand because of this because the scriptures go on to say :

from Matt 27:

[b]6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.[/b]

This is the scripture you quoted, the word goes on to say:

[b]8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:[/b]

how then can the rapture be close if we are only at the beginning of sorrows? it seems to me we have to first be handed over to affliction and be hated of all nations for Christ's name and so on. Then Christ goes on to say:

[b]15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: [/b]

This abomination which causes desolation is mentioned in daniel and has to do with the antichrist defiling the temple. the way Christ i stalking, it seems like there will be some saints here at that time. brethren i pray we are not looking to the rapture as a means of escaping any sort of harships in Christ. Paul tells us that to share in the sufferings of Christ is to share in His glory and we can't dodge that. i fear we have been infected with an escapism mentality and ultimately when we find ourselves in the thick of persectution with no rapture at hand, many will forsake the faith to escape the hardship.

is the Church ready to be raptured in this state? are without spot or wrinkle? that is the sort of Church Christ is coming for. if we are honest with ourselves we will see that we are in need of Repentance. if we are in need of repentance, we are not ready to be raptured out of here. brethren we need to fall on our faces and repent or we will perish.

Let us not get the rapture and the second coming confused. There is NOTHING that remains to come to pass for the rapture of the bride, but there is some things remaining for the second coming to take place. One is a "stealing away" (Jewish wedding custom), unannounced, the other is a return and presentation of the Bride.

If one was to study a traditional jewish wedding, some of this is explained and the sequence of events becomes clearer. The whole salvation plan from the BEGINNING is explained.

Tradition or not, we must base our understanding of these things on Scripture only. Jesus rebuked the Scribes for teaching mens' tradition as God's Word. It is dangerous to believe something just because it is popular.
With that said, I would like for someone to show me aside from daniel 9:27 where this idea of a 7 year "tribulation" period is found in the Bible. Not in conjecture or speculation, but in Scripture only.
I do not believe that a pre-trib rapture is plausible nor taught by the New Testament. Paul encouraged Timothy and Titus to do things in light of the "appearing" of Jesus, not in light of the "rapture" of the Church.
Also evry instance of the word "tribulation" applies to something the people of GOD go through, and I have yet to see anything that says "the great tribulation".
I say these things as a brother, and also as one who was a very staunch arrogant Pre-trib defender. But once I put aside the teachings of men and looked only at Scripture I could not hold that view any longer.
Either way, may all of HIS blessings and goodnes fill your heart this day. :-D

bro Roaringlamb

With that said, I would like for someone to show me aside from daniel 9:27 where this idea of a 7 year "tribulation" period is found in the Bible. Not in conjecture or speculation, but in Scripture only.

this prompted me to do some moe digging and i ound this in matthew 2

[b]15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.[/b]

Evidently what daniel spoke of in daniel 9 is repeated again in daniel 11 and 12 concerning the abomination which causes desolation which is yet to come to pass fully. the beast has yet to set himself up to be worshipped as God in the new temple wherein he shall defile it, perhaps like antiochus epiphanes did by sacrificing a pig on the altar. anyway in Rev 11 the word speaks of the 2 witnesses preaching during the 42 months in which the gentiles will trample the Holy City which is half of 7 years. now the beast will arise and kill them and people will be happy etc but then the 7th angels sounds his trumpet...The word speaks about the casting out of satan in the following chapter but then in chapt 13 that beast which rises out of the ocean shows up. now although the beast which kills the 2 witnesses comes out of the pit and this one from the sea, they are both working for the enemy. now the word then goes on to say that he blasphemed God for 42 months after the 42 months in which the witnesses were here hence the 84 months which is 7 yrs. all the while the judgments of God are poured out and this latter 42 months has even more intense judgements added onto the previous ones hence the common term great tribulation. in this time antichrist will seek to be worhipped as God and if one doesn't, he dies.

Also evry instance of the word "tribulation" applies to something the people of GOD go through, and I have yet to see anything that says "the great tribulation".

indeed, Christ spoke of there being great tribulation unlike at any other time and that the days were cut short for the sake of the elect, that says to me that the elect are here in those days because if they weren't there would be no nee d to cut those days short.

I say these things as a brother, and also as one who was a very staunch arrogant Pre-trib defender. But once I put aside the teachings of men and looked only at Scripture I could not hold that view any longer.

the idea of being raptured pre-trib seems to me like that will be a part of the great falling away. people will believe a lie and be disappointed when things get hard and then jump ship. i know i'll be here but best of all, God's grace will be sufficient for ALL His saints either way.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

"On August the 10th, 70 AD the Temple was set on fire. And at the very juncture of its dissolution, even while it was in flames, the Roman Soldiers set up on the battlements of the outer wall thereof “the abomination of desolation” spoken of by Daniel the prophet. viz. the Standards of their Legions under which they now made desolation and therefore said to be the abomination of desolation, as every Standard had painted on it the image of the “Tutelar” (Guardian) God of that Legion; to which the Romans sacrificed after their idolatrous manner as they stood erected upon the Holy Place.” (A Chronological Treatise upon the 70 weeks of Daniel by Benjamin Marshall which was published in 1728 AD) "

bro Roaringlamb

Now, I am not preterist by any means, but historically did this not happen in 70 AD? Why else would Jesus be warning those "in Judea".

Judea has not ceased to exist, it may have another name now but there is no reason for Christ to call Judea by any other name.

It is interesting that nowhere is it really spelled out in the New Testament that there will be a & year tribulation, in which the antichrist will rise to power yadda yadda yadda.

bro you are right it is not written explicitly but in my last post in which i wrote of the 42 months in which the 2 witnesses will be here and then the 42 months in which the beast will be blaspheming God, these are the 7 yrs in question.not only that but Christ spoke of that tribulation which will be worse than any before or since whose days have been cut short for our sake as the elect. now antichrist is the man whose name is signified by 666 and in revelation 13 he is mentioned and it seems to me that he is in power because he causes men great and small to take his mark upon themselves and noone can buy or sell without it. seems powerful to me.

at any rate we are God's children and He will sort us out. one of us is wrong and may our God correct whichever one it is to His glory.

Thank you for your replies. It is good to speak to someone who does not feel personally attacked when questions are brought up about this. In the end our theology or eschatology won't get us into Heaven as we both know and I am blessed to call you brother :-D Now may our GOD in HIS infinite grace guide us, and fill us for HIS glory!
"to GOD be the glory great things HE hath done"

Regardless of the currents times, I have a hard time thinking that we have any more clues about the coming of the end times than the early church (see Acts 1). My understanding of Christ's eschatological message is that we can never, ever guess when its coming because only the Father knows that and He does not provide us with concrete clues. Instead, Christ focused on spreading the Gospel AS IF EVERY DAY WAS THE LAST DAY! So, as we think about the end times, Christ desires that we focus on spreading the Gospel with urgency yet with care, love, and truth.

AS IF EVERY DAY WAS THE LAST DAY! So, as we think about the end times, Christ desires that we focus on spreading the Gospel with urgency yet with care, love, and truth.

Amen, and I agree. Yet just to throw this out there for you to think on

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[b]1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.[/b]
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
This pretty much agrees with everything you said, but I just wanted to show you that Paul said the day would not catch us unaware.
So much to think about, yet may we be found doing HIS will.

hey bro Roaringlamb

roaringlamb wrote:
Thank you for your replies. It is good to speak to someone who does not feel personally attacked when questions are brought up about this. In the end our theology or eschatology won't get us into Heaven as we both know and I am blessed to call you brother :-D Now may our GOD in HIS infinite grace guide us, and fill us for HIS glory!
"to GOD be the glory great things HE hath done"

the feeling is mutual bro and most refreshing! i've ran into some very very staunch pre-tribbers...it seems to me offence at something is often because of a fear associated with whatever we're offended about in terms of theology. anyway God has called us to be vessels of mercy and as such He will sort it all out.

to God be the glory indeed! i touch and agree with you on that bro.

bro Flash
welcome to S.I. What we don't know about Christ's coming (which even He doesn't know but only the Father) is when Christ Himself shall return. We will know the signs of the times in which He shall return by the goings on and we are a lot closer to it than the early Church was. We are in those days and indeed we ought to live each day like it is the last but at the same time not be ignorant of what is going on because Christ warned us to watch also.

This pretty much agrees with everything you said, but I just wanted to show you that Paul said the day would not catch us unaware.

We are in those days and indeed we ought to live each day like it is the last but at the same time not be ignorant of what is going on because Christ warned us to watch also.

Thanks bros! I did not mean to encourage ignorance toward the end times. My thoughts were more in the area of the "sky-watching" form of eschatology. I appreciate the clarification and encouragement. Let us all be ready to give an account before the judgment seat of Christ!

Let us all be ready to give an account before the judgment seat of Christ!

This statement alone would do away with perhaps 90% of our theological squabbles, because only about 10% are absolutely essential.
Do our Lord proud at Moody bro. ;-)

bro Flash

Thanks bros! I did not mean to encourage ignorance toward the end times. My thoughts were more in the area of the "sky-watching" form of eschatology. I appreciate the clarification and encouragement. Let us all be ready to give an account before the judgment seat of Christ!

there must be a balance and strict following of Holy Spirit's leadings. If times comes to focus on one thing we should do so as He leads. This way we can be sure that we will have done our Lord proud.

Brethren,

May I give an alternate view to the Lords return? We squander amongst ourselves as to when Christ will return or how, but neglect the clear direct commands that were given us by Christ. As some of you may know I am not a pre,mid,post, or that other group "pan" trib. I'm a watch triber. All that means is that whether God returns before or after I want to be found worthy to escape the pollution's of this world. I want to make it clear that I'm not some kinda modified Pan triber. No, I try to obey the three commands that Jesus did give us concerning end times.

"Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." (Mat. 24:42).

"Therefore be ye also ready..." (Mat. 24:44)

"Blessed is that servant, whom the Lord when He cometh shall find so doing." (Mat. 24:46) Doing what? Obedience unto the Lord.

In Christ, bro Doug

Has anyone heard the following reason given as to why the rapture must be pre-tribulation?:

1) No man knows the hour of Christ's coming.

2) It is trivial to figure out that Christ will come at the end of 7 years from the time the Antichrist makes a covenant with Israel.

Therefore: God has a dilema on His hands with regards to scripture not being broken, and prophecy being fulfilled.

Solution: God takes believers out of the Earth before the great Tribulation (because we all know that it is only Christians who know about Christ coming 7 years after the Antichrist makes peace with Israel). Therefore nobody on Earth will be able to know when Christ comes and scripture is not broken.

I had to roll my eyes when I first heard this one, but some Christians believe this convoluted logic to the core! I kid you not.