[b]A Conversation with Dwight Pentecost
Of the relatively few people who reach their 90th birthday, fewer still do so in good health. An even smaller percentage remain active in their career or are sought-after experts in their field. One such nonagenarian is author, pastor, and eschatology scholar Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost, who this year celebrated his landmark birthday as well as his 50th anniversary on the faculty of Dallas Theological Seminary. While in Atlanta recently to tape a week-long prophecy seminar, "Dr. P," as he is known by his students, spoke with In Touch about teaching, today's church, discipleship, and heaven—and he has a message for every reader...
ITM: After spending half a century on the faculty at Dallas, you must have seen a lot of changes. How is seminary today different?
JDP: In the early years, a large part of our student body had come from Bible college; today, more and more of our students are coming out of the secular world with no biblical background, and we have to start out assuming that they know almost nothing. But our doctrinal position is essentially the same as when the seminary began in 1924—every faculty member reaffirms his complete acceptance of that position every year, so that doctrinally we have consistency.
And, of course, the way things are presented is different. When I began teaching, the only visual available was a blackboard and chalk. Next, there were overheads, then video tapes, and now it's all on computer: PowerPoints.
ITM: Was it hard for you to keep up with those new developments?
JDP: I never did! I just stand up and take the Scriptures. They've been trying to get me educated to use a computer and email. We have a whole help department who are very faithful and diligent and patient. They show me one day, and I say I've gotten it. Then the next day, they're up showing me again. But I don't think visually. So it's not natural for me to use all those means. I'm just one of the relics.
ITM: What about churches—how are they different today?
JDP: You would be hard put, I would judge, to find a church today that has a mid-week prayer meeting. How many churches have Sunday night services? I was brought up with Sunday morning worship and Sunday School, Sunday evening youth group and church service, Wednesday evening church and Bible study. You'd find that in any church.
Now, congregations gather together only once on Sunday morning. Our whole concept of the function of the church—what people are expecting the church to give them—has radically changed. They think that if they've had a drink of water Sunday morning, that's enough for the entire week.
ITM: What about prayer—why is it so hard to gather Christians to pray?
JDP: When people get desperate, they begin to pray. Life has become so comfortable—financially, healthwise—we just don't feel the need. With all those things provided for us already, why ask the Lord? Why bother Him?
ITM: You were a pastor for 28 years. What message would you give to pastors?
JDP: I think [pastors are largely] clear on the Gospel, but what they're not sharing—and what people who are saved still need to understand—is the person and work of the Holy Spirit in relation to Christian living. That's why a number of books that I've written are in that area.
ITM: We have the power that raised Christ from the dead, but we don't regularly access it. What hinders us?
JDP: We're not taught our dependence on the Spirit. We've gotten the idea that we can do anything. But we can't do it, because the flesh is weak. That's the whole message of Romans 6 and 7, of course: The flesh is weak.
ITM: And if you had five minutes to give a message to believers, what would you tell them?
JDP: (With a laugh) I'd want more than five minutes!
A thing that was impressed on me when I was a teenager is that you will not find a reference to the second coming of Christ in the New Testament epistles that is not followed by an exhortation to righteousness, godliness, and holiness. That's why 1 John 3:3-8 refers to it as "purifying hope." God's purpose is to conform us to the image of Christ. What's the inspiration? Jesus' promise: "I'm coming again." That expectation was to change lives. But now we've lost a concept of the coming of Christ; we've lost that which was a primary motivation to righteousness and godliness.
ITM: Would you have any advice about getting along with each other?
JDP: One of Paul's important focuses is the epistle of the Ephesians, and I think the central thought in that book is in verse 3 of chapter 4: "Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." Believers are united in Christ, and it was Paul's desire that the Ephesians would remain united in not just their doctrine, but their practice, because they're in Christ. And what I see is that churches are dividing over so many different issues. Many, many of our strong churches have divided into two over what kind of music is going to be used to worship. I think that's tragic.
ITM: What do you suppose is the reason for such division?
JDP: I think it's the influence of our secular society that our ideas are being formed, not by the Word, but by television. People want to translate what they've learned and been conditioned to think from the secular world into the church.
ITM: Some churches use modern music to draw non-believers. Isn't the fear that no one will come if the music isn't appealing?
JDP: My idea is that if a person is outside, and he's involved in rock and roll, the church can't put on a rock and roll that's rockin' and rollin' enough to really attract him. It can't be that good. I don't think that's the way you attract them. Then again, that's my older culture.
ITM: How should we attract them?
JDP: I think by showing them something that's different from anything they've known or experienced.
ITM: How can we get them through the door in the first place?
JDP: I think that's usally best done where one friend invites another.
ITM: Speaking about messages, what would you say if you could address all unbelievers?
JDP: There is only one message for unbelievers. And that is that Christ died for our sins and rose again on the third day. The Gospel was God's message to sinners, and it is the most important thing we can say to them.
ITM: What about witnessing to people who are hostile?
JDP: Tell them anyway. If they've heard it, then they're responsible.
ITM: Is there a point at which we should stop telling them?
JDP: I would say, practically, yes. That's casting your pearls before swine. But you trust God to give you opportunities, to open doors. You never know when a door that has been closed will open a crack, and you can speak and will be heard.
ITM: You wrote about your teachings on discipleship being designed to "unsettle you who have become so comfortable, to disquiet you who have become so satisfied, in order that we might become a people who are disciples in truth." Would you explain that?
JDP: It goes back to the biblical concept of discipleship, which is different from salvation. When I go through the life of Christ, I notice a progression. In studying the word disciple, I found out there were many people who didn't understand or believe what Jesus said, but it was so startling that they gathered to Him out of curiosity.
But in John 6, when Jesus said His true followers must identify with Him the same way your body identifies with food when you eat it—by the process of digestion and absorption—many of His disciples "walked with Him no more" (John 6:66). These men were not saved. However, Scripture says that at the close of the first miracle, when Jesus changed wine to water, many of His disciples believed on Him. (John 2:11) They'd been called disciples before they came to faith; the second step was moving from curiosity to conviction.
Then to those who had believed and were reporting on the fruits of their ministry in Jesus' name, He says [in essence], "If you want to be My disciple, you have to say no to yourself, take up your cross, and follow Me." (Matthew 16:24) There, He is calling on them to make a commitment as an act of the will to give themselves to Him for His use. And so, some disciples are not even saved; some disciples are saved but are not committed. Discipleship begins a process that will bring a person to maturity.
ITM: One last question. At 90 years of age, you must think about what's ahead. Can you picture what heaven will be like?
JDP: No, I can't imagine it. I think it's so beyond human comprehension I would just leave it that way. All I can try to do is project now into the future, and heaven is not going to be a projection of now. It's going to be all so new.
from: http://www.intouchministries.org/gen_content/index_627258_39966051.html