Must a Christian Sin

Answer - NO

Will a Christian Sin?

Depends.

Listened to John Piper in Minneapolis this weekend. Slow progressive Sanctification - nearness to God and contentment in him brings him glory - but seems to get there via dwelling on God's bigness and magnitude of sacrifice for us - not enough.

Old man - flesh - natural man - predispostion to sin.

New man - spirit - supernatural - predisposition to righteosness.

Question to myself - Who am I? What I was or what I now am?

Sanctification

Hunger and thirst - Christ manifests - Identify in Him for Your "Self" your multiple oneness of personality in the Trinity - Abide in this truth - Christ forms Himself in all His perfection and holiness in your sanctified self - not in part but in whole - as I walk in fitness for intended purpose - I give God the right to myself - completely - willingly, freely - gladly - God engineers all the haphazard circumstances of my life.

Walk worthily, walk in the spirit, walk in love, walk circumspectly, walk in the light.

I don't flip flop from flesh to spirit - I am in the spirit - I may quench the spirit ( put water on the fire) if I sin - but the fire can burn again.

Baptized with the spirit and with fire.

(Romans 6:13-25) Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Pro 23:17 Let not thy heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the Lord all the day long:

I don't flip flop from flesh to spirit

Are you sure?? :-(

I used to believe this as do most reformed evangelicals. The atonement gave me access, dare I say at-one-ment with the father in Christ. I believe Paul says but you are not in the flesh but in the spirit if it be that the Spirit dwells within you. Since I am in the Spirit Paul encourages me to now walk in the Spirit, in the truth, in the light, in holiness, worthy of the vocation to which I am called, circumspectly. Can I sin - of course - even Jesus was tempted in all ways as I am yet without sin. Adam was in a sinless state and yet capable of sin. Jesus was certainly in the Spirit without measure, and he was capable of sinning. Clearly one can sin in the spirit, and still be in the spirit - ie. HE DOESN'T LEAVE ME. I am secure in His love What shall we say then shall we sin that grace may abound - God forbid. I believe Romans 7 is talking about the inadequacy of the law to overcome sin - with the mind I serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. I don't believe Paul was calling himself a carnal Christian - just the opposite, he was carnal but now he has the mind of Christ, Christ's holiness is in him. Paul is an afterthought. To him was Christ to die was gain. I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live, yet not I Christ liveth in me, and the life that I now live I live by the faith of the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. Who shall save me from this body of sin and death. I praise God in Christ Jesus. There is now no condemnation. :-)

The bible says we will fall into sin when we are being sanctified.

What scripture were you thinking of when you wrote this?

Not that its a big deal. I just think that the Christian Life is evidence enough. The more we learn about God the more clearly we see the sin in our lives. Not one Christian can claim to have lived a perfect life from the time they were saved. Its clear that we still war against our flesh.

1 Peter 2:11
"Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul"

Matthew 19:17
"So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God."

Romans 7:15-25
"15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

I mean I don't think that I'm better than Paul. Don't take me wrong, scripture says that if you live in sin (habitually) you've never seen God nor known Him. It also says that he who lives in righteousness (habitually) knows Him. It never says in the scriptures that we can produce perfection still here in our fleshly bodies other than what Christ can produce.

lazarus, are you saying that you will never sin anymore?
just wondering.

I doubt that any Christian can honestly say they have never sinned since becoming a Christian. What struck me in that comment is that you said that "we WILL fall into sin"

I honestly cannot believe that to be true.

I have so much joy in my heart knowing that through God's grace, I can live the rest of my entire life walking in the beauty of holiness.

Amen! I believe it to be possible also!

When I try to copy sermons they show up as a "php" file and Itunes will not accept it...do you know how to correct that?

GraceAlone

The more we learn about God the more clearly we see the sin in our lives. Not one Christian can claim to have lived a perfect life from the time they were saved. Its clear that we still war against our flesh.

This has been true in my experince with the Lord. The longer I walk with Him and the more intensely I seek to know Him the more he reveals things in me that I never even knew were there. It is usually a heart wrenching revelation of self, but praise His Holy Name His grace always follows right behind it. Ever noticed how Paul's view of himself changed over the course of his ministry?
Initially he called himself "the least of the apostles. Years later he refered to himself as less than the least of all saints. Shortly before he was beheaded he professed to be the chief of sinners. As his view of Christ's Holy perfection became clearer and greater his estimation of himself became less.

That said, I suppose it is "possible" to not sin. There is a scripture and perhaps more than one which says, "if a man sins......" which would suggest to me that it may be possible not to. I imagine there have been few if any other than Christ who have walked it. 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 52 weeks per year x how many years? To walk perfect in thought, word and deed. It's a pretty tall order which even the Apostle Paul did not accomplish.

All I know is, I thank God for the blood of Christ in which I put all of my hope. For I fall very short more often than not. I strive to be quick to repent and hopefully walk purer today than yesterday. After 30+ years of working out my own salvation, it is my hope that the things that I have put away is more than the things I have yet to put away.
HopeInChrist

I think you identified one of the key scriptures. Certainly 1 John talks about a Christian not sinning. I think we have to get to the point where we expect ourselves not to sin rather than to sin. For me it has been an issue of "Identification" ie that "I" am "me" the "new man" not the "old man" It's kind of like telling your children when they leave home "remember who you are"

Oswald Chambers

Signs of the New Birth August 15
from The Psychology of Redemption

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" Do I seek to stop sinning or have I stopped sinning? To be born of God means that I have the supernatural power of God to stop sinning. In the Bible it is never - Should a Christian sin? The Bible puts it emphatically - A Christian must not sin. The effective working of the new birth life in us is that we do not commit sin, not merely that we have the power not to sin, but that we have stopped sinning. First John 3:9 does not mean that we cannot sin, it means that if we obey the life of God in us, we need not sin.

God never takes away our power to disobey; if He did, our obedience would be of no value, for we should cease to be morally responsible.

Before the new birth we sin because we cannot help it; after the new birth we need not sin. There is a difference between sin and sins; sin is a disposition, and never spoken of as being forgiven, a disposition must be cleansed. Sins are acts for which we are responsible. Sin is a thing we are born with, and we cannot touch it; God touches sin in the redemption. If we have been trying to be holy, it is a sure sign that we are not. Christians are born, not made.

I agree that God doesn't take away our ability to obey as christians, yet we've all disobeyed regaurdless.

1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

2 Corinthians 1:10
who delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver us; in whom we trust that He will still deliver us,

Romans 6:5-14
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

The idea that sanctification is a liscence to sin is ridiculous...

1 John 3:6
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 1:6
If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

Point is if you live in sin you are lost. Now if falling in to sin means you are lost then we're all lost because I'm sure you've fallen into sin being saved. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that christians are sanctified after conversion. If you say you haven't sinned since conversion then consider God's standard.

Rejoice always
Do all to God's glory
Looking with lust (Mat 5)
Being angry in your heart (Mat 5)
Giving thanks in all things
Doing all from faith
No complaining
Perfection
Loving God with all you heart mind and strength
Puting God first

I know God gives us ability to do these things but I haven't found a single person who does not sin at all like Jesus. Point being there is no licsence to sin here: If someone takes it that way they have no desire to uphold righteousness and I believe are lost. A christian loves what is good. Also, if a professing christian is not living in righteousness you can be sure that he is lost.

1 John 2:3-4
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I agree that righteousness is not something we ourselves conjure up, but God does. Righteousness flows from a redeemed heart. Without fruit there is no salvation. I'm not saying that we have a "sin nature" but that we fight against our flesh. If there is a pattern of sin in our lives and we walk in darkness we're lost.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

1 Peter 2:11
Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,

But if we live and walk in the flesh...

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" Do I seek to stop sinning or have I stopped sinning? To be born of God means that I have the supernatural power of God to stop sinning.

Here is a quote from weslyan theology: which is arminian:

We believe that after we have experienced regeneration, it is possible to fall into sin, for in this life there is no such height or strength of holiness from which it is impossible to fall. But by the grace of God one who has fallen into sin may by true repentance and faith find forgiveness and restoration.
Mal. 3:7; Matt. 18:21-22; John 15:4-6; I Tim. 4:1, 16; Heb. 10:35-39; I John 1:9; 2:1, 24-25.

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