prophetic or opinion?

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

I tried to bring out this point in another thread but I don't think it was really picked up on. Perhaps I misunderstand the above verse so I am open to other's interpretations of it. I am no theologen(sp?).

If we attribute a move or work of God to not be of God or to be from Satan himself would that not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit? I am concerned that so often specific ministries, men and claimed revival movements are so certainly proclaimed to "not" be of God. I am not suggesting that they all are of God, but simply that I don't really know. I have certainly felt cautious in my own spirit at times and have avoided ministries because of it. I would not even think of boldly proclaiming to everyone that they are heretics though. What if I'm wrong? What if you are wrong? Would it not be better to take our concerns before God and pray that if it is not of God that he give wisdom to his people that they are not deceived? And even that he impart truth into those ministers also. The heart is wicked and decietful above all things. Who says come and follow me I preach a false gospel? And even in genuine outpourings and ministries the evil one will be at work there to to deceive who he can, to bring counterfits etc. But remember the parable of the wheat and the tares. The presence of tares does not make the wheat a counterfit.

Certainly God has his prophets, but lets make sure it's God and not our opinion dressed up as a spiritual discernment or prophetic at work.

This is not directed at anyone. I couldn't even usually tell you who posted what. It just seems to be such a common occurance, not only on this forum but in Christian circles all over. I just want to encourage people to think about what they say before they say it, examine it's source and to be mindful of the seriousness of what we speak.
HopeInChrist

Good post, HopeInChrist. It would be better to err on the side of caution, but as you say, without all knowledge, we don't want to commit blasphemy.

(that is what you said, right?) ;-)

yes, that is my point. :-P You could have saved me a lot of time.

Mar 3:30 because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Sounds logical but you need to look at the next verses as it deals with Jesus' own family coming to get him saying that He was beside himself, the illussion being that they may have sided somewhat with the scribes. So we see here the possibility of a deeper meaning, I leave that for you to discover. God Bless Bro. Daryl

Mar 3:31 And there come his mother and his brethren; and, standing without, they sent unto him, calling him.
Mar 3:32 And a multitude was sitting about him; and they say unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
Mar 3:33 And he answereth them, and saith, Who is my mother and my brethren?

A good post has been started here. No doubt there is still much to consider regarding this topic.

“…He has lost connection with the Head…” Col. 2:19

"Let us keep in step with the Spirit." Gal. 5:25

Diane

If we attribute a move or work of God to not be of God or to be from Satan himself would that not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit?

Simply having poor discernment is not blasphemy of the Spirit. Think of the phrase, "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit." What does it mean to blaspheme? To blaspheme something is to use malicously cruel and violent language towards something or somebody holy.

To do such takes a knowledge of what one is talking about. You can't unknowingly blaspheme something. To blaspheme something, specifically, the Holy Spirit, is to knowingly and malicously slander the Spirit of God.

In the context of the gospels, it is specifically used in reference to the Pharisees who recognized Jesus performing geniune acts of God, but knowingly attributing these acts of God to the devil. It wasn't simply them being spiritually blind or undiscerning, but, to actually know what the truth was, and to slander the activity of Christ as having its origins of the Devil.

HopeinChrist wrote:

If we attribute a move or work of God to not be of God or to be from Satan himself would that not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit?

These scribes knew that Jesus was the true Messiah but hated Him because He did come as they wanted, "The Concoring King",
The Messiah would be known by cirtain miracles setting him apart form other prophets. He would domiracles that know other prophet did or could do as the miracles in this verse, that is why the people were amazed, and said, "is not this the son of David?" in other words, "this would mean he is Massiah"

The Pharisees in Matt.12:24 tell the people that Jesus casts out demons by the “Prince of demons claiming that the spirit that is working through Him is not the Holy Spirit but a demonic spirit. In verse 29 Jesus states that this cannot be true because Satan would be divided and his kingdom would fall. Furthermore, No one is able to bind Satan and spoil his belongings unless he is stronger and not subservient. Jesus specifically states “He is driving the demons out with the Spirit God.”

The purpose of his miracles was to authenticate who He was. In Judaism there were 3 main messianic miracles that the rabbis understood would take place when the messiah would come, these would help the people recognize him (Deut.18:15; Isa. 35:3-6; Isa. 43:7-9).

[b]1:[/b] He would heal someone born blind from birth (Jn.9:1)

[b]2:[/b] He would heal a Jew who had leprosy (from the time of Moses’ law being completed, no Jew was ever healed of leprosy.

[b]3:[/b] He would heal or cast out a dumb demon. The Pharisees recognize this as a messianic miracle and ask if this can be the Son of David. At the time their were exorcisms performed within Judaism. For this to be accomplished the exorcist needed to actually communicate with the demon and ask questions. However in the case such as this where someone was affected by the demon to become dumb, this exorcism could not take place because there could be no communication made. According to Judaism only the Messiah could cast out a demon like this because it would be supernatural.

[b]John 2:23[/b] [color=990000]Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, [b]when they saw the miracles which he did.[/b][/color]

I would not even think of boldly proclaiming to everyone that they are heretics though.

What if I'm wrong? What if you are wrong?

Would it not be better to take our concerns before God and pray that if it is not of God that he give wisdom to his people that they are not deceived? And even that he impart truth into those ministers also.

This will only work if they love the truth.
[b]2Thes 2:10b-12[/b] [color=990000]because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[b]:11[/b] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[b]:12[/b] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.[/color]

even in genuine outpourings and ministries the evil one will be at work there to to deceive who he can, to bring counterfits etc.

Certainly God has his prophets, but lets make sure it's God and not our opinion dressed up as a spiritual discernment or prophetic at work.

In conclusion, God gives us knowlage, not oppinions.

If we attribute a move or work of God to not be of God or to be from Satan himself would that not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit?

To attribute some current activities to the Holy Spirit might also be 'defamation of character'. ;-)

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

If we attribute a move or work of God to not be of God or to be from Satan himself would that not be blaspheming the Holy Spirit? I am concerned that so often specific ministries, men and claimed revival movements are so certainly proclaimed to "not" be of God. I am not suggesting that they all are of God, but simply that I don't really know. I have certainly felt cautious in my own spirit at times and have avoided ministries because of it. I would not even think of boldly proclaiming to everyone that they are heretics though. What if I'm wrong? What if you are wrong? Would it not be better to take our concerns before God and pray that if it is not of God that he give wisdom to his people that they are not deceived?

To call a true prophet, "false" and a false prophet, "true" is deadly and destructive regardless of whether or not it leads to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. To reject the true prophet is to reject God's true message. To receive the false prophet is to receive the devil's false message. Both are indicators of deception. Jesus even said that the way we respond to His true men is the way the we respond to Him - "He that receiveth you receiveth Me, and he that receiveth Me receiveth Him that sent Me" (Matthew 10:40). He also said of the false prophets, "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets" (Luke 6:26). The same principle applies even to receiving false prophets - to receive the false prophet is to receive the devil and his lies.

So discernment is not an option but a necessity and one which we do not have within ourselves. Therefore Jesus told us in Matthew 7:7 how to receive discernment - "Ask, seek, knock" - this is the same thing that Proverbs 2:1-11 says and verse 11 says, "Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee."

Grace and peace
Olan

There are some "discirnment ministreys out there that are only against thing whith nothing to be for like http://www.atruechurch.info/home.html

Hi Logic,

I have actually contacted this ministry to no avail. I have left them at least two seperate messages for them to contact me.

These guys arent really a discernment ministry, they are a cult, read they're statement of beliefs. Its that bad, they believe that their is no trinity, and that they're 7 persons of godhead, weird.

Anyways, they're are some real good discernment ministries out they're, www.thebereancall.org, with Dave Hunt is a rather good one. He has had ties to Ravenhill, and Wilkerson.

God Bless

I believe that one of the Hebrew words which shows the Godhead to be plural, also means more than three.

Singular
Dual
Plural

I don't know that there is 'more than three' option.

But, that's what we ought to attempt, rather than to set statements against each other, as if one being right means the other is wrong. Wrong! They are both right....!

It wasn't really any one statement made by you as much as it was a compliling of comments made from the the begining of the post to the point where I posted.

The context of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit I believe is often taken out of context to the whole of scripture with all its surrounding passages. Not you specifically, but by most who generally try to grapple with this passage. A mishandling of it causes, and I've seen and dealt with first hand, some to be burdened down unnessarily with guilt, so I was hoping to get those who would follow this thread to look closer and consider the whole of scripture with all its circumstances and implications surrounding this "event" which occassioned Jesus' teaching here on the Holy Spirit and the authority with which God the Holy Spirit exercises Himself.

Dorcas,

Please go to that website before you start defending these people, you will be shocked.

Brethren
indeed the revelation speaks of the 7 SPirits of God and i for one do not think that to be allegorical in anywise. Now i don't think that these are 7 separate Spirits as they are 7 manifestations of the Spirit of God which rest upon Christ as stated here in Isaiah 11:

[b]1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove F64 with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.[/b]

it seems to me these 7 Spirits are:
the Spirit of God
the SPirit of Wisdom
the Spirit of Understanding
the Spirit of Counsel
the Spirit of Might
the SPirit of knowledge
the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord

The thing which keeps hitting home though is that God is tripartite, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Holy Ghost manifests the Power of God in the above ways through Christ and also through us since we are in Christ. To me this is not a big deal, the word says God is 3 persons and then speaks of the 7 Spirits of God. Some have said that is allegorical, i disagree. it seems that is a way to keep us from seeking God all the more to clarify what He has said or to seek Him with all diligence. The seeking of God in such ways causes us to be stretched beyond what we think we can bear and it makes plain to us we aint got nothing on God and whatever we think we know we have to set down and let Him school us...this would mean we have to admit we know nothing...i'm unsure many of us are willing to make such a declaration espcecially if one has been saved for a long time. also it's not easy for us to concede that our perception of who God is is wrong/incomplete hence we struggle with certain things He has done in the past and is doing now and will do later on.

much to consider.

as it pertains to the prophet (this is a dear thing for me!) the word says that if what the prophet says doesn't come to pass then we can write him off, to do so prematurely would be folly i think because to reject a true prophet (for whatever reason) is indeed to reject who sent Him but then also to accept a proven false prophet is folly also is to accept the one who sent him...let us tread carefully lest we reject the oracles of God and/or accept the words of the enemy.

The 7 spirits in Rev 3:1 are angels, or spirit-beings, as in Rev 1:4, Acts 8:29, Heb 1:7, 14

Revelation 1:4 (King James Version)

4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the [b]seven Spirits [/b]which are before his throne;

Acts 8:29 (King James Version)

29Then the [b]spirit[/b] said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Hebrews 1:7 (King James Version)

7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his[b] angels spirits[/b], and his ministers a flame of fire.

Hebrews 1:14 (King James Version)

14Are they not all[b] ministering spirits[/b], sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

According to the notations in my Bible, when comparing the same Greek word Pneuma/Spirit used in the above verses.