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They Were All Virgins

R
roadsign Sep 28, 2006

“…ten virgins... took their lamps
and went out to meet the bridegroom.” Matt. 25:1

The parable of the ten virgins is about two groups of people who are nearly identical:

They were all virgins. They had never surrendered their bodies to a man. They had never defiled their souls by compromising with the world, or selling themselves to the faulty religious systems of the day. They reserved themselves for one Man – their Husband. None of them had forgotten who they were, to whom they rightfully belonged. They were all waiting for him to come and get them, trusting that they were ready for him. And so they set out on the journey of life, to meet him, completely expecting him to come and get them at any moment. They were all virgins.

But the ten virgins comprised two distinct groups - with one big difference between them: One group had oil and the other did not.

There are also two main groups of people within the household of God. On the surface, they may be quite imperceptible; but in the end it makes an eternal difference. One group has the Holy Spirit and the other does not. In the end, those who enter heaven are the ones with the Spirit, that is, the Spirit of Christ who is our Life – birthed within his people.

Many professing Christians go through life living vicariously off of the faith of others. They enjoy the benefits of the Spirit, the showers of blessings. They feel very much a part of the family of God – united with those who actually do have the Spirit. These people feel very secure in their illusion. They can talk the talk, act the act. They can tell you what’s wrong with the JW’s, PDL’s, WOF’s, RC’s, and the XYZ’s. They keep away from all that, and stay close to where the Oil is flowing. But they do not have their own Oil.

On the final day all the blessings - that is, the light and warmth from of the Oil won’t do them any good. On that Final Day, they will no longer be able to look to the church, or anyone else and beg: “Give us some of your oil, our lamps are going out.”

Here are some personal questions for each of us to ask ourselves:

Am I a a wise virgin - and have the Oil?
How can I tell?

Am I deceived - a foolish virgin - dependent on someone else’s Oil rather than my own?
How do I tell?

What light does Scripture reveal to all of us regarding this subject?

Diane

E
enid Sep 28, 2006

Concerning your questions after your article, to know if we are wise or unwise.

1 Cor 3v16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

We should know. If not, then verse 18 tells us, 'Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among
you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.'

This speaks in terms of worldly wisdom. However,
if we can be deceived by worldly wisdom, how much more by church attendance, reading the word, praying. Didn't the Pharisees do those things? Yet, they were living in hypocrisy. Don't be deceived. That is the opening admonition in this text.

Hebrews 5v14 tells us 'But solid food belongs to those who are of age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Discernment is needed to guard against going cold in the things of God. Don't leave your first love.

God bless.

sermonindex Sep 28, 2006

"But the ten virgins comprised two distinct groups - with one big difference between them: One group had oil and the other did not."

I am persuaded that you are starting from a wrong understanding consequently you will draw a wrong conclusion. Try this out for a beginning senario:

They all [10] had white robes signifying salvation. They all [10] had oil, signifying the Holy Spirit. Now what does Paul say [to the born again]except,"Do not quench the Spirit" 1 Thes. 5:19 (NASB-U)

See where your thinking takes you with that view on things.

;-)

I
InTheLight Sep 28, 2006

Am I a a wise virgin - and have the Oil? How can I tell?

I think a lamp speaks of the testimony of Jesus. For me to testify of someone, I must have first hand knowledge of them, hearsay will not do. To me this speaks of a living, vital relationship with Christ through the Spirit. How can I tell? I think Romans 8:14-16 is a good way to test. Those verses show that the sons of God walk in an upward path, an outward expression, and an inward peace.

Also, the foolish virgins lamps have gone out, indicating they were once lit. I think these are those who started in the spirit and tried to finish in the flesh. The testimony was there at one time.
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
(Mat 25:8)

In Christ,

Ron

E
enid Sep 28, 2006

Romans 8v9 tells us 'But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he is not His.'

Either you have the Holy Spirit or you don't.

As it says in Galatians 3v3 'Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?'

These virgin were called foolish. They had not taken care of their salvation.

We can start off right and finish wrong.

Let's be wise. God bless.

O
OverSeer Sep 28, 2006

ormly wrote:

I am persuaded that you are starting from a wrong understanding consequently you will draw a wrong conclusion.

Just as you have done dear brother. The Bible clearly says that the five foolish "took [b]no oil[/b] with them" (Matthew 25:3).

And from your wrong understanding you conclude:

They all [10] had white robes signifying salvation. They all [10] had oil, signifying the Holy Spirit.
Not so according to the Bible. They did not all have oil and when the five foolish "trimmed their lamps" their lamps went out = they had form without fuel! These five do not represent "loss of salvation" but they represent false Christians who hold to a form of godliness but have denied its power.

We should never change what God's word says to make it fit our doctrine - we should change our doctrine to make it fit God's word.

The Text: Parable of Ten Virgins
How they are alike:
1.\tAll had been invited to the banquet – they were all anticipating a banquet when the bridegroom came. These people had heard the gospel invitation
2.\tAll had responded positively to the wedding invitation. This is demonstrated by the fact that they are waiting for the bridegroom’s appearance
3.\tAll were part of what we would call the visible church. They had joined the fellowship of those who were waiting for the Lord.
4.\tAll believed in the return of the Lord.
5.\tAll got drowsy and fell asleep while the bridegroom was delaying.
6.\tAll trimmed their lamps – they all thought that they were light bearers.

How they are different:
1.\tFive were foolish and five were wise
2.\tThe foolish took no oil for their lamps; the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps.
3.\tThe five prudent went in with the bridegroom to the wedding; the five foolish were locked out of his presence.

This is a picture of those who have a form of godliness but deny its power. They have form (lamps) but no fuel (oil).
This is a picture of those who profess faith but do not possess faith. They are powerless professors of the faith.
This is a picture of those who did not do what the Bible tells us to do – “Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves” (2 Corinthians 13:5) and “Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you” (2 Peter 1:10).
This is a picture of those who responded to a false gospel of philosophical humanism and wanted to be saved from hell but had no interest in being saved from sin. Again they did not do what the Bible tells us to do – “Contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. For certain persons have crept in unnoticed…ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness” (Jude 3-4).
This is a picture of those still in the dark although they appear to be in the light.

What are you basing the certainty of your salvation on?

Grace and peace
Olan

P
philologos Sep 28, 2006

We have to be careful not to try too hard to map every part of a parable to a truth. Allegories are like that but not parables. These 'virgins' were simply 'young women' and thoughts of 'separation' to their one man does not come into this parable.

The bridegroom in question will only have one bride, ever.

sermonindex Sep 28, 2006


OverSeer wrote:
ormly wrote:
I am persuaded that you are starting from a wrong understanding consequently you will draw a wrong conclusion.

Just as you have done dear brother. The Bible clearly says that the five foolish "took [b]no oil[/b] with them" (Matthew 25:3).


But they did have oil in their lamps, correct?

What does that tell you? Oil repesents the Holy Spirit.... How is it they had some?

;-)


Not so according to the Bible. They did not all have oil and when the five foolish "trimmed their lamps" their lamps went out = they had form without fuel! These five do not represent "loss of salvation" but they represent false Christians who hold to a form of godliness but have denied its power.

We should never change what God's word says to make it fit our doctrine - we should change our doctrine to make it fit God's word.

I'm sure you have much scripture to support your "fitted" doctrine?


:-o

O
OverSeer Sep 28, 2006

But they did have oil in their lamps, correct?
According to you - but not according to the Lord Jesus! The oil wasn't taken in the lamps - it was taken in flasks and the foolish didn't take [b]any[/b]!
I'm sure you have much scripture to support your "fitted" doctrine?
Yep! That's how God "fitted" it for me - SCRIPTURE - "[b]All[/b] scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for [b]doctrine[/b], for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).

Grace and peace
Olan

sermonindex Sep 28, 2006

They didn't take extra oil, my friend, extra. That is inferred if not stated.


"Then [b]ALL those virgins arose, and [u]trimmed their lamps[/u][/b]. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for [b]our lamps are gone out."[/b] Matthew 25:7-8 (KJV)

I accept your apology in advance.

:-o

O
OverSeer Sep 28, 2006

They didn't take extra oil, my friend, extra. That is inferred if not stated.
It is not inferred and most surely isn't stated - even a blind man can see that!
Then ALL those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
How does trimming their lamps infer that they had at one time had oil but didn't take any extra? It doesn't! The trimming of a lamp speaks of preparing the wick for lighting. But a prepared wick is no good without proper fuel - "Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, 'Give us of your oil; [i]for our lamps are gone out[/i]'" (Matthew 25:7-8). The wick was lit but it didn't burn long - "our lamps are gone out" - not because they ran out of oil but because they "took no oil with them" (25:3).
I accept your apology in advance.
None given until proper exegesis proves otherwise. Eisegesis http://www.creationists.org/eisegesis.html is an unacceptable approach for Scripture interpretation.

Grace and peace
Olan

sermonindex Sep 28, 2006


OverSeer wrote:
They didn't take extra oil, my friend, extra. That is inferred if not stated.
It is not inferred and most surely isn't stated - even a blind man can see that!
Then ALL those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
How does trimming their lamps infer that they had at one time had oil but didn't take any extra? It doesn't! The trimming of a lamp speaks of preparing the wick for lighting. But a prepared wick is no good without proper fuel - "Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, 'Give us of your oil; [i]for our lamps are gone out[/i]'" (Matthew 25:7-8). The wick was lit but it didn't burn long - "our lamps are gone out" - not because they ran out of oil but because they "took no oil with them" (25:3).
I accept your apology in advance.
None given until proper exegesis proves otherwise. Eisegesis http://www.creationists.org/eisegesis.html is an unacceptable approach for Scripture interpretation.

Grace and peace
Olan

Then I leave you to your willful ignorance :-(

O
OverSeer Sep 28, 2006

Ormly wrote:

Then I leave you to your willful ignorance

Whose? Mine or yours? :-)

Grace and peace
Olan

P
philologos Sep 28, 2006

'Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out'" (Matthew 25:7-8). The wick was lit but it didn't burn long - "our lamps are gone out" - not because they ran out of oil but because they "took no oil with them"

The tenses would tend to support this. It is not 'our lamps have gone out' but 'our lamps are going out'. Robinson's Word Pictures comments: When the five foolish virgins lit their lamps, they discovered the lack of oil. The sputtering, flickering, smoking wicks were a sad revelation. ...but then I don't think this oil or its absence has anything to do with the Holy Spirit. It is simply an illustration of unpreparedness.

sermonindex Sep 28, 2006

...but then I don't think this oil or its absence has anything to do with the Holy Spirit. It is simply an illustration of unpreparedness

Yes... And?

Are you trying to say there are no Spiritual implications? Then why the likening of this to the Kingdom of God?

You guys are starting to give me pause.

sermonindex Sep 28, 2006


OverSeer wrote:
Ormly wrote:
Then I leave you to your willful ignorance

Whose? Mine or yours? :-)

Grace and peace
Olan

Apparently your ability to read is more lacking than I supposed....nor can you make distinctions.

M
mamaluk Sep 28, 2006

I don't think I should bring in another school of interpretation. ( Which says that this parable is not to be interpreted with the Church in mind but rather Israel. ) However, this is one of the rare threads where I actually can agree with everyone's insight so far, from Roadsign's..

Since this is a parable, I see the "2-edgedness" of the Word here which teaches me both in:

- Spiritual implication - as an admonition to preparedness or watchfulness in our walk towards the future.

- Soteriological discernment- as an distinction between tares and wheat, sheep and goats, wise and unwise, true of false believers..


As Ron mentioned
"We have to be careful not to try too hard to map every part of a parable to a truth. Allegories are like that but not parables. These 'virgins' were simply 'young women' and thoughts of 'separation' to their one man does not come into this parable."

A parable can tolerate plural applications, can it not?

Btw, none of you appears to me as willfully ignorant ! :)

O
OverSeer Sep 28, 2006

Ormly wrote:

Apparently your ability to read is more lacking than I supposed....nor can you make distinctions.
Actually it is you dear brother who can't make distinctions. I spoke of being corrected by exegesis instead of being destroyed by eisegesis. All that you have offered so far is eisegesis. I knew that you were saying that you were leaving me to "my willful ignorance" (my ability to read may go farther than you think) but in your statement you offered no hint that you would engage in exegesis which I am more than happy to engage in with any willing saint. Therefore, although you believe that I am deceived or at least ignorant, you offer no sound reasoning from the scriptures to make a defense in support of your interpretation. So not only do you leave me to my ignorance, you leave me to yours also!

Grace and peace
Olan

PS. The parables are for the purpose of revealing the mysteries of the kingdom to those who have received the truth and for concealing the mysteries to those who have rejected the truth (see Matthew 13:10-13).

From Matthew 24:32 - 25:46, Jesus was giving parables of the end-times that explained the mysteries of the kingdom up to His coming. The parable of the ten virgins explains the counterfeit Christians among the true Christians and how they (counterfeit Christians) hold to a form of godliness (lamp bearers) but have denied its power (no oil). For further explanation see 2 Timothy 3:1-5 for a description of the apostate church members of the last days - those signified by the foolish virgins.

sermonindex Sep 28, 2006

The analogy speaks for itself, requiring no further "indepth" study.. I stand by my remark that you can't read nor make proper distinctions.
They all had oil IN their lamps when they set out.

O
OverSeer Sep 28, 2006

Ormly wrote:

The analogy speaks for itself, requiring no further "indepth" study..
You speak for yourself and have no further scripture to support your eisegesis http://www.creationists.org/eisegesis.html
They all had oil IN their lamps when they set out.
"They that were foolish took their lamps, [b]and took no oil with them[/b]" (Matthew 25:3). What part of "took no oil with them" do you not understand? Even by implication it is obvious that they did not set out with oil in their lamps because the lamps were not being used until the cry that came at midnight (v.6). Instead of being out and about as light bearers, "they all slumbered and slept" (v.5). Pretty hard to burn out your oil when you are sleeping and your lamp isn't lit!
They all had oil IN their lamps when they set out.
Would Jesus tell us that they took no oil with them when they did? No! This is a classic case of eisegesis - reading into the text what isn't there in order to support an existing belief or understanding!

Grace and peace
Olan

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