David Wilkerson

I found this article of David Wilkerson and I just wanted to run it by you guys because I have no idea really about it. Any thoughts?

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http://www.geocities.com/asterisktom/wilkerson

I have a hard time writing about David Wilkerson for two reasons:

1. He is a mixed bag. Some of his sermons and writings have a lot of good points.
2. His book, "The Vision" is the one that I had just finished reading when I first turned to Christianity. This was in 1975, in my bedroom in the village of Langenselbold, West Germany. So, for the longest time it was hard for me to be impartial. Yet when assessing teachings and teachers of our faith, we need to hold them to the same Biblical standard (Acts 17:11).

This article will look at David Wilkerson's prophecies and teachings. After we have seen examples, we can make conclusions based on our open-Bible policy.

PROPHECIES

1. NO MORE GOSPEL ON TV BY 1999?

He preached this in the Solomon Church in December of 1994:

"Right now I sense in my spirit that in less than 5 years there will be no more so-called gospel television networks. They will all fall into bankruptcy and absolute ruin."
2. 1000 FIRES IN NEW YORK CITY DUE TO RACE RIOTS IN 1993?

From a prophecy of September 7, 1992:

"I have had recurring visions of over 1,000 fires burning at one time here in New York city. I am convinced race riots will soon explode! New York City is right now a powder keg-ready to blow!...federal and State Welfare cutbacks will be the spark that ignites the fuse. Next year, New York City could have over 100,000 angry men on the streets, enraged because they have been cut off from benefits....Federal troops will have to move in to restore order. New York City will have tanks running down its avenues....Churches will be closed for a season because it will be too dangerous to travel about. Fires will rage everywhere."
Although Wilkerson set the expiration date of this prophecy himself - " Next year" (i.e. 1993), he now says that this is yet future. This is a common tactic of "prophets" who move the goal-posts, hoping that others will forget by then.

3. FINANCIAL CRASH IN 2000?

On April 15 of that year, Wilkerson prophesied this:

"For the last two years I have been crying aloud, warning all who would hear that America is receiving her last call and that judgment is at the door. I did not say this was the end of the nation, but the last call before a financial crash."
"I am writing this letter to you on Saturday, April 15, 2000. I have on my desk the headlines in yesterday's paper: "BLACK FRIDAY - BIGGEST ONE-DAY DROP IN HISTORY." The Dow fell 618 points - the Nasdaq fell 355. I do not know what is coming in the next sixty days. If the market bounces back, I can assure you it will be temporary. THE CRASH IS INEVITABLE - NOTHING CAN STOP IT."

To his credit, he admitted his mistake after the non-event, after the market instead of crashing, reached a record high on May 22 of that year:

"In prayer, I have told the Lord I am ready at any time to confess I am wrong - that I must have spoken from my own fears or that I have spoken unadvisedly. Recently, when the market reached record highs, I wondered if those calling me a false prophet were right."
He admits that he was motivated by fears when he gave this warning. I am not advocating that we kick a man when he is down, or that none of us are human. It is good that he admitted his mistake. But let me ask you this: When times get rougher than they are now, do you want to consult a prophet/teacher who is motivated by fears the next time he says "Thus says the Lord". I don't. We need to tear our eyes and hearts away from all authority figures and look to the Bible. If we listen to teachers and preachers, it must be the same way that the Bereans listened to Paul and Silas - with open Bibles and a determination to use them intelligently. In my mind, Wilkerson has already lost credibility by his mis-prophesying.

TEACHINGS

1. TWO PENTECOSTS

"God's last-day church ...will be even greater than that [the first-century church,] ... mightier, stronger, and even GREATER revelation of Jesus. A greater unction from the Spirit than ever, GREATER EVEN THAN PENTECOST....As I see it, the gospel of Jesus Christ has not been fully preached in this generation!"
(God's Vision for the Last Day Church 5-23-94)
There are plenty of verses that tell us that this just isn't so. In the last days we will face ever greater apostasy and confusion. To expect a mighty revival is to set yourself up for major deception. Read Luke 18:18.

2. SUFFERING GOSPEL

This is a hard aspect to write about because a lot of this is subjective. You may read this and say - "So what?" In fact I weeded out a lot here that I could not substantiate to my satisfaction. At any rate, this is where Hannah Hurnard comes in. Dave Wilkerson is the sponsor and founder of Mount Zion School of Ministry, a school that makes free use of Hurnard's work in the chapel. Her work is spoken of as "inspired by the Holy Spirit". Personally, I see a lot of her "suffering is the way to heaven" teaching influencing Dave Wilkerson. In his book "Hungry for more of Jesus", he says that personal suffering and cleansing is the way "we win His eternal Love" and "win His heart." But this is not Scriptural. We can never win God's heart. We love Him only because He first loved us (1st John 4:10, 19). There was nothing in any of us that could have made God choose any of us over anyone else. It is true that Peter says that if we suffer according to the will of God we glorify Him (See 1st Peter 4 as well as 2:18- 25). But this does not win His love for us. It is only our reasonable service. It is an outworking of what God has worked in us. It is nothing less than Christ being formed in us, our sanctification.

I have read from a number of sources where the emphasis at this school is on mysticism, on "breaking the inner self" and a "long process of introspection" to make them ready for union with Christ.

This has been a kind of incomplete appraisal of Dave Wilkerson. Hopefully it is enough to give us a good view of the man. I don't put him in the same class as Hannah Hurnard, or as some of the others I plan to write about. But I believe that he has greatly deviated from where he started out. I felt he was worth writing about for this reason.

well a friend sent this to me and truthfully I wasn't really sure. I'm sure a lot of people here know a lot more about David Wilkerson and have heard him speak more than I do, so I just wanted to post it up to see I guess what others thought. I don't really have a stance, but I'm more just networking and posting it up to people who know more about David Wilkerson. Thanks

3. FINANCIAL CRASH IN 2000?

My best friend goes to Mt. Zion School of ministry. This school is right on target, NO mysticism, he has been changed drastically.

I would read these great articles about him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wilkerson

http://www.acadc.citymax.com/page/page/2495014.htm

great articles boomatt! The drug study was really amazing. and at the end of the wikipedia article:

Wilkerson has faced increasing criticism from many sources, many of whom voice concern that the threats of upcoming disasters have led many of Wilkerson's followers to take preemptive action that they later regretted.

the article I posted is probably one of those hm?

David Wilkerson has been quite influential in my life. I ran across this article last year and it concerned me. I didn't want to be following a false teacher, so I did a google search on him. The only negative things I could find were this article and bits and pieces of this article. I have come to the conclusion that the writer of this article has a personal vandetta against him. Many of the quotes are taken out of context and false assumptions are made about things he said resulting in poorly drawn conclusions. At one point, the author of the article takes quotes from Wilkerson's "Hungry for More of Jesus" And concludes that he is teaching some sort of Eastern Mysticism. Well, I own the book and can assure you there is not even a semblance of such. I don't see how anyone who read more than a few [i]words[/i] of the book could say such a thing.

I certainly wish anyone with more information on this topic please share.

Not sure if this is gossip... but my brother-in-law goes to Mt Zion. I heard from my mother-in-law that the man who wrote this article had a son that went to Mt Zion and was asked to leave the school. Sounds to me like this man just had a bone to pick.

I think this brother is rigth on with this statement, right now america is one of the poorest nations in the world per person, yes you heard me right. The average american is so far in debt something like $20-40,000. America is living on borrowed time, its mostly a facade.

The debt issue for the US at both a country and personal level is not a problem. I am no economist, but the prefailing view is that economic growth will deal with the debt that is building up. Look around the world at where debt relieve is discussed, it is not for the USA.

Why is this important?
- Anyone, including myself, living in the developed or western world, needs to recognise there are billions of people, that compared to us have nothing. If we ignore their needs, it is a shame to us.
- Of the Christian countries in the world, and the US is a Christian country (check Operation World statistics if you have doubts - Evangelical Christians USA-32.5%, UK(my home country)-8.5%, Germany(where I currently live)-2.9%), the US is is the most able financially to have the greatest impact on world missions. I once did some calculations, which showed that without undermiining ministry at home, the US church could support 4 million missionaries (that number includes spouses and children). There are currently (2000) only 60,200 ! The Mormons manage to send nearly 200,000 missionaries!! So if you start saying that the US is a poor country, then it is a short step, to being satisfied with the status quo. The US could be a much greater missionary base, if the church recognised how rich, financially, it is.

This post is not meant to be a political nor a criticism of the US (I have there for a few years and think it is a great country), and I apologize that it is off-topic, but it is an important issue to get right.

Blessings,

Mike

Isaiah was a prophet and many of the things he spoke of did not come to pass during his life.

In terms of financial systems, maybe all the aspects for financial ruin have been put in place. The system has been established. The handwriting is on the wall.

The free market systems that we hear about in the news and from schools is a lie. There are central banks and the Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland that are manipulating markets all over the world trying to prevent collapse of the paper money sytem.

A major hedge fund in natural gas just lost 4-6 billion in one or two weeks. This was made public at the beginning of the week. Who bailed them out? Have you heard of this situation?

In Christ
Jeff

Wilkerson -- crediable? I like what Jesus said to the angry mod when they wanted to stone Him, for which of these good works do you (or will you ) stone me for? Look at Wilkerson's ministry, teen challenge alone worldwide is noteable and it's easy to see the hand of God all over that. Than the jews said for none of these but because you said.......I supose the hearers of Jesus misunderstood what He said and doubted Him too, in the same way I believe Wilkerson , his words especially are scrutinzed but his de-tractors always get around eventually to slamming his character which usually indicates both jealousy and envy on behalf of his enemies. Unless the prophetic statement is blantant, or presumptious, like many we've heard over the years, I supose it not worth worring about :-(

Mike,

These statistics are real fancy for someone just reading them. but go to those countries, and see how much it costs for a soda, or a meal. Look and see how much it costs. My friend just went to guatemala this past week. She spent less than a dollar on a shirt and a vase, which would cost lots of money out here in America.

It costs the average person here in Northern VA and average 500,000 to buy a decent home, as compare to somewhere like pennsylvania, where it costs about 115,000. See the difference, but people usually get paid more in VA than they do in pennsylvania.

See where I am going with this...If not, sorry, I just kind of woke up.

Basically what I am saying, is that Sermonindex is right.

A major hedge fund in natural gas just lost 4-6 billion in one or two weeks. This was made public at the beginning of the week. Who bailed them out? Have you heard of this situation?

Mike

Basically what I am saying, is that Sermonindex is right.

Sermonindex said: "right now america is one of the poorest nations in the world per person"

I understand that people face different costs depending on where they live. This [url=http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GNIPC.pdf]page from the World Bank[/url] gives Purchasing Power Parity comparisions. That is, it tries to show how much the average income for a person in each country will buy where the person lives. The income still gets very small for a lot of countries.

All I can do, is, respectfully, to ask you to take the quote above and review the web sites of any missions organisation, relief fund, development agency etc that works in some of these countries , or discuss it directly with them. See if they think the USA is "one of the poorest nations in the world per person". I would be interested to know what you find out.

Mike

I think we ought get back to topic. I see how it relates, but we've stretched it a little far in my opinion. If we want to discuss the financial situation of the United States, let's do it somewhere else. Obviously, if the mods wish to keep it here, we will ;-)

boomatt wrote:
These statistics are real fancy for someone just reading them. but go to those countries, and see how much it costs for a soda, or a meal. Look and see how much it costs. My friend just went to guatemala this past week. She spent less than a dollar on a shirt and a vase, which would cost lots of money out here in America.

It costs the average person here in Northern VA and average 500,000 to buy a decent home, as compare to somewhere like pennsylvania, where it costs about 115,000. See the difference, but people usually get paid more in VA than they do in pennsylvania.

Umm, sorry but people in those countries die from starvation, disease and numerous other illnesses that we don't. They can't even afford their 'cheap' prices, cause to them a coke,[b] is a day's maybe even a week's worth of working. [/b] They are poor and even with their cheap prices, it just shows, since they can't pay it, that they are extremly poor.

That just mean's giving overseas has greater impact. That doesn't mean that the other country's are wealthy.

Our dollar is worth more than their dollar, and our are easier to get than theirs.

I did a study on 3rd world countries and he is very correct when it comes to his stats.(So, I agree with Mike there)

BUT, we are on borrowed money. From what I heard. So, if for some reason, certain nations would like to ask for their money back, we'd be extremely poor. Our dollar would go straight down. And we'd be like the next Africa.

Yes, we(USA) are the 'richest' but in all truth we are the poorest. Why? because us (USA) being rich is a mask, we really owe the money that we have and then much more.

So, basically for now, it looks like we are 'rich' but then when we stop losing favor with the nations we owe. Watch out, babylon is gonna fall.

Also, this economic 'rise' or 'highest ever' is just like David Wilkerson said. Paraphrase "The economy of America will see rises (even record breaking rises) but it is only the beginning of the huge decifit and it's a mask"

When I watched the news the other day and they say 'this is the highest ever' I couldn't help but remember Brother Wilkerson's prophesy.

The end is nigh and brother's and sister's lets get ready for it and fill up our oil jars.

LoveGrace,

I stand corrected, after reading those pages that MikeH had linked to his post. God Bless

Thanks guys and have a great day

brethren
it seems to me the economy is driven by one big thing, debt. i figure 9 out of every 10 dollars which is spent out there is not backed by anything due to the fractional reserve lending principle. this allows banks to lend out 10 times more money than they have in reserve. at some point all that money is going to have to come from somewhere and if it doesn't, i don't think the consequences would be good. we may say america is the richest nation, but we do carry the greatest debt load. the average american owes over $8,000 in credit card debt this is not factoring in morgages, car loans, education loans etc. i don't think we're rich, i just think we owe a lot of people money and at some point it all is going to backfire.

i received a word from the Lord concerning this economic collapse and i heard it would be next year. incidentally this concern has been raised on fox news (of all places) and other networks during this past year. i'm no economist so i don't know the mechanics of it but as i heard it from our Lord it will be like the great depression, only greater because we have that much more to lose and are so used to a certain way of life such that when people lose jobs, homes, property etc, it will ge very ugly very quickly. as for those preachers who preach prosperity, unless they repent some of them will be faced with some very angry churchgoers...our Lord will soon have me post that word and some others here soon. in truth i look forward to it because this will knock down our idol of materialism and cause as many as would to repent so that God can bind us together in Him as it was at the first because what we're doing now is not cutting it.

MARANATHA!

the bottom line is we ought to seek our Lord all the more desparately not because