Christians and Politics

I am usually very suspicious of this whole area but I came across a refreshing perspective from [url=http://www.ohioroundtable.org/about/staff.html]David Zanotti[/url] on the Michael Card Podcast.

I have long appreciated the biblicism of Michael Card in the music field. He has a regular [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcasting]Podcast[/url] called "In the Studio with Michael Card". One of his guests on Show 233 was David Zanotti and I was much taken with his style and sense of mission. You can find Michael Card's podcast by going to the iTunes store and entering "Michael Card" into the search window. The Podcast is free but you will need the iTunes software to collect and play Podcasts. The software is free for both Mac and PC.

There is a perspective on the Christian 'use of power' which I would heartily commend. This is not the 'moral majority' but I think is a trully Biblical viewpoint on Christians in 'power'.

You'll find the free software and the Michael Card podcasts at the [url=http://www.apple.com/itunes/store/]iTunes Store.[/url]

PS you do not need an iPod to listen to this!

I am usually very suspicious of this whole area ...

There is a perspective on the Christian 'use of power' which I would heartily commend.

For any who would prefer to get it 'streamed' you can go direct to [url=http://www.michaelcard.com/radioarchive/show233.html]Michael Card's Website.[/url]

There is a perspective on the Christian 'use of power' which I would heartily commend. This is not the 'moral majority' but I think is a trully Biblical viewpoint on Christians in 'power'.

This interview is a good reminder on loving your enemies and blessing them as a means of ministering to them as opposed to 'combating' them. I have recently felt the Lord dealing with me about passages in which the Lord told us to 'bless'. I have often struggled with this because of fear of somehow "bidding them 'God speed'". It may be good to open up a discussion on how we can 'bless' folk without partaking of their evil deeds.

here's Daves web link http://www.aproundtable.org

He's based out of Ohio (USA) and has not only a crediable ministry but flawless personal character. He takes on some pretty tough political issues so keep him in your prayers. God Bless

That wold be an interesting thread. :-)

David Zanotti seems to be indicating that the presence of Christians in politics is as 'witness' rather than 'power broker'. This is very much the way I have seen things. My own view is that the role of Christians in society is as 'conscience' rather than an 'legislator'.

I also like the notion of DZ's cross party platform for that witness. Please do listen to what he has to say and let us know your reactions.

This is the lyric to one of Michael Card's songs to his children... I used part of it for a time as a sign-off
Reject the worldly lie that says,
That life lies always up ahead,
[u]Let power go before control becomes a crust around your soul[/u],
Escape the hunger to possess,
And soul-diminishing success,
This world is full of narrow lives,
I pray by grace your smile survives.Chorus- For I would wander weary miles,
Would welcome ridicule, my child,
To simply see the sunrise of your smile,
To see the light behind your eyes,
The happy thought that makes you fly,
Yes, I would wander weary miles,
To simply see the sunrise of your smile.Now close your eyes so you can see,
Your own unfinished memories,
Now open them, for time is brief,
And you'll be blest beyond belief,
Now glance above you at the sky,
There's beauty there to blind the eye,
I ask all this then wait awhile,
To see the dawning of your smile.

This thread encourages me tremendously! I enjoyed Michael Card's streaming message.

There is a perspective on the Christian 'use of power' which I would heartily commend.

Let power go before control becomes a crust around your soul

Expounding on these thoughts would surely be most helpful.

How does human power crustify our souls? What are the symptoms?

How does God's power soften us? What are the signs of a softened heart?

Just think what would happen if we, the church, use our God-given power rather than our natural power. We would be building the Kingdom rather than tearing down fellow man.

Diane

Robert wrote:

It may be good to open up a discussion on how we can 'bless' folk without partaking of their evil deeds.

The early church and later the Anabaptists taught - and lived this way - that one is to return good for evil. Today we are seeing this played out in the families of the Amish children that were murdered by Charles Carl Roberts IV. The local Amish church is setting up a fund for Mr. Roberts widow and children. And not only that, the Amish are hoping they will stay in the community because they will experience lots of love and care from them. How many families of murder-suicide victims will do that? I have never heard of it...I find this act so refreshing and in my spirit there is great joy to see this done. To me this is one small way of blessing an enemy. But very few people are in this position - Thank the LORD! - but it does give us a beautiful example of how it can be done regardless of the circumstances.

ginnyrose

But very few people are in this position - Thank the LORD! - but it does give us a beautiful example of how it can be done regardless of the circumstances.

Before anyone gets mad at me for this, let me first explain that I personally live less than 20 mins. away from the largest amish community in Ohio. I have had personal buisness dealings with these precious folks for years, have eaten with them and have several very very close friends who have had to leave the amish order because of thier faith in a saviour, Jesus Christ. Much like many different cults they are a well ordered cult but very legalistic. Few acknowledge Jesus Christ as thier personal saviour and fewer claim to be born again. Thier example is wonderful, but that doesn't nessarily mean they are christians. In light of the recent events I also mourn but am also painfully aware that when ever the same thing (school killings) happens several times in such a short period, in that the Lord is speaking, just like 9/11, are we listening? But my comments are off thread,. sorry.

Hi dohzman,

you said,

Much like many different cults they are a well ordered cult but very legalistic.

I would say that you are way off.

Truth- Most Amish are not saved.
Truth- Amish do have "human" legalism.

But let us not forget that the law of Christ and the ordinances are not legalism, rather obedience.

I could easily say the same of the Baptists.

"Like many cults they rebel against the laws given by Christ and are indistinguishable from the world."

There is no difference. Who is worse off, those Amish that have forsaken God, or the worldly Baptists who think they are saved yet live in complete disobedience? I would say the latter...

I've heard statistics they say only 5% of Baptists are saved (unreliable source). So it goes both ways.

In Christ, bro Doug

I would like to comment on this statement written by philogos:

It is a powerful challenge to us all. However, not all 'anabaptists' were pacifist.

This is very true. Anapaptists have lost a lot of what their early church leaders died for, including their reaction to how one responds to evil, and how to respond to the military.

Now if you want to split hairs, [some]Mennonites will tell they are not pacifists but instead practice non-resistance. The Mennonites who are pacifists will protest the government's use of arms, military engagements, withhold tax monies proportion-wise what the military uses, etc. Non-resistant Mennonites/Anabaptists will say how the government functions is their business and it is up to Christians to pay their taxes whether they agree with its dispersion of them or not. Non-resistant folks say the govenment is a different enitity from the church and its operation conflicts with Biblical principles so therefore we must back off and allow them to do what they deem best. Unless, of course, it interferes with serving the LORD, then oppositon is expressed but resorted to dialoge and not taken to the streets via protests, placards, etc.

Dohzman wrote:

I have had personal business dealings with these precious folks for years, have eaten with them and have several very very close friends who have had to leave the Amish order because of their faith in a savior, Jesus Christ. Much like many different cults they are a well ordered cult but very legalistic. Few acknowledge Jesus Christ as their personal savior and fewer claim to be born again. Their example is wonderful, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are Christians.

Unfortunately, this is also true. What is sadder still is that there is a ministry that targets Amish in Ohio to bring them to salvation. But when they join that group, they discard Biblical principles and say how much freedom they now have. Reminds one of the Pharisees who Jesus rebuked for traveling far and wide to make proselytes and end up worse then before.

However, revival has come to some Amish communities and for that we can praise the LORD. Yes, all communities, regardless of church affliation, need revival.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Philologos wrote,

It is a powerful challenge to us all. However, not all 'anabaptists' were pacifist.

I pray that none are pacifists... Pacifists hold to this thought, (pacifism), which is a philosophical approach to forming a utopia on earth.

Non-resistance is the submission to a commandment of our King. This is to glorify God.

Pacifism glorifies man and brings about their desires for a world peace.

In Christ Jesus, bro Doug

It had always been somewhat ammusing to me being so close to many of them how much control thier elders really do exercise over them, social, buisness and personal. I also know closet christians in the amish community and have absolutely no doubt that they are indeed born again. Many leave the amish order and become Mennonites. Some of the stories I could tell, almost makes me smile here thinking about some of them. In this area they still have ole' fashioned tent revivals where the preaching hot hot hot! Now I want to shout.

What is sadder still is that there is a ministry that targets Amish in Ohio to bring them to salvation. But when they join that group, they discard Biblical principles and say how much freedom they now have.