Point by point:
Nothing of the sort. You are just overlooking some thing’s about the love of God and how He foreknows His children who will respond when His word is presented as it should be presented.
[i]Assuming a sizeable crowd: If you spoke these words as Paul spoke them, at the end of your speaking, how many do you suppose would still be in your presence?[/i]
Paul was speaking to the church, not on some street corner to random strangers.
But some in that crowd would come to know Christ wouldn’t they? I mean you plant someone else waters and God gets the increase, correct? Isn’t that he way of it if we understand we don’t do it all? Perhaps a little reminder might be of help to illustrate this.:
[b]"Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: [28] For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to *repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter."[/b] Acts 17:22-32 (KJV)
Note Paul’s words and how he includes them in what he is stating, though they not fully understand. Note also how there was division. Some desired to hear more while others mocked him. Why was that except his words were made quick to some who lived with a hope. While others..?
* change direction
[i]The assumption in His words to us has to be that to whom He sends us, are redeemed. I.e., peace with God has been made by the Blood of Jesus...... and they need realize it, right?[/i]
that is just out and out foolishness. Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: I could go on but its pointless, you don't believe. I have that from the Lord.
Indeed, John 3.16 and it would be pointless to go on if you can’t rightly divide God’s word and make distinctions as to what Jesus did and who Paul is speaking to, who are indeed not ones on a street corner [children] but ones who have tasted of the good things of God unto son-ship.
“You are son’s…” connotes a finished product in Christ. They, Galatians - Romans, aren’t there yet but because of the new birth experience, have undertaken the process of becoming that which God has purposed [b] from the beginning [/b]
Need more on this?
[b]But as many as received him, to them gave he power [u]to become the sons[/u] of God, even to them that believe on his name[/b] John 1:12 (KJV)
[i]I don't agree. They are not dead if their faith is in God. They are justified and need to hear about the one who made peace with God in their behalf.....Get my drift? Paul understood it that way.... we should also[/i]
While your comment sounds well enough , your context is out of order, a christian will embrace another christian and should be in some sort of gathering of the saints, in that case we encourage one another, your context for this discussion is the street meeting - witnessing areana, the highways and by ways.
Indeed, and how do you believe a congregation begins if not with folk who never heard of God’s saving grace and are brought in to be discipled? All of it has a beginning somewhere in the minds of men and for those who live with a hope of God, convertin them, saving them, and when hearing of Jesus Christ, respond and enter. “Go and make disciples”, Jesus said.
[i]The cross was already given. Our job is to reveal it to humanity. Those who look for the hope of eternal life will receive the message of it.... and the message is more than you put forth as being all. Simple as that.[/i]2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve in his craftiness, your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity and the purity that is toward Christ.
I doubt if that scripture will be suffcient in and of itself for you. While the "MEAT" of God as you refered is whats needed, I also fear that the simplicity of the gospel is being lost, and that is where the power of God is and is where salvation can be found for the lost, and yes it is that simple
Correct, it is insufficient ---- and totally out of context, implying something that is not in my reply.
We are speaking of presenting Jesus Christ not just as Savior but as Lord and what God has for the one who can see himself in relationship with Him as Paul speaks of and as Jesus spoke of for 3-1/2 years.
[i]One doesn't make disciples of the lost[/i]
better tell Jesus that one. He came to seek and to save that which was lost.
Why of course, foolish of me, why didn’t I see that? ----- BTW, are you implying that “lost” means “damned”? If not then I must conclude there will be those in the mix who will respond because they will recognize their need or desire to belong.
Try reading the whole passage and pray for a better perspective of it. Here is part of it:
[b]Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. [11] For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.[/b] Matthew 18:10-11 (KJV)
I submit to you that there are many yet to hear of Jesus Christ that fall into the category of, “His sheep”. They just don’t know it yet. That’s where you and I come into play.
[i]Tell that to God and the OT saints who He blessed because of their righteousness, like Job......Enoch.[/i]
These OT saints walked by faith looking forward to the day....Read Hebrews, come on, your reasoning can't be that doctrinally off.
And what faith is that since Jesus Christ is not yet come in whom to place it? Think. And also, you mean my Yak shepherd friend up in Siberia, who never heard of Jesus Christ, who looks up at the stars every night believing God’s handiwork to be of Him, who lives with that revelation, is damned? You ready to say that?
Now we get down to heart of the matter....presumption.... and those who teach a meatless teaching.
I could lower the cannons here and blaze away but I'll show some restraint. Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest the servant of another? to his own lord he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand.
[b]”But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. [u]But he who is spiritual appraises all things[u], yet he himself is appraised by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ”.[/b] 1 Cor. 2:14-16 (NASB-U)
To presume is to act upon an assumption. There is much of that in religion.
[i]Personal experience for you --- or just meaningless scripture quote?[/i]
When we compare ourselves by ourselves we are unwise, but if you must know , I live, eat breath and think Jesus 24/7, as has been the manner of my life for most of my 20 plus years of my salvation experience.
I don’t need to know your spiritual age. But since you mentioned it I will tell you I have three times that many years in Him. I only wish I knew in my first twenty what I presently know….But then I probably wouldn’t be here at my desk at 3 o’clock in the morning drinking my last of coffee, typing this reply to you. God has His ways. His foreknowledge and predestination is a constant amazement to me.
[i]Strange this. Most hear that message every Sunday. I wonder what can be wrong that it affects its hearers who walk out the same way they walked in?[/i]
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
It's a faith walk, always has been, now I could speak on things that affect our faith and the ability to exercise such, but this is enough for now.
My Yak friend was greatly affected by the night sky.
Paradise [b]was[/b] filled with those of faith and belief in God. To believe they were all OT saints is error.
[b]"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.”[/b]John 10:16 (NASB-U)
It's now 5 AM -- I'm off for my V8 juice. A potassium, you know.
:-o
