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joeSOC Oct 4, 2006

Dear Friends
I was asked to give a 3 min testimony at church. I would appreciate some feedback Thank you.
Testimony
I cannot put my finger on a single day when I became born again, however I will attempt to give you a rough sketch of my life since I had my first encounter with God’s Holy Spirit. My Journey with the Lord began at a young age, I received the Holy Spirit when a Catholic Priest laid hands on me and prayed, I knew this was the case because after he did this I became aware of my sinful condition and that my number requirement was to live a life pleasing to the Lord. However please note that it was only early this year that I actually surrendered my will and desires to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Prior to this my life was characterized by selfishness, pride, arrogance, envy, selfish ambition, lust and so on and so forth. I was living under the delusion that I was the centre of the universe and all my needs must be met first. I loved things and used people. I was unaware that all this would constitute to a serious problem because of my pride, hence I began to deceive myself. The bible says a man reaps what he sows. Due to my sinful condition I began to see problems with my thinking and the way I related to God myself and people especially those from the opposite sex. I was 24 and knew I must change or else I would go to Hell, especially after reading (Mat 7:21 MKJV) Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! Shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven. I knew I was doing my will instead of God’s will. One night I got on my knees and cried to the Lord. I told Him that I was a classic sinner and I was ashamed of my double life. And made up my mind I would not go to bed until I knew I would be set free. At 4.00 am I found myself rejoicing in the knowledge that I would be with the Lord Jesus Christ after I died. What followed from then was an enormous hunger for something I desperately needed. The bible which is the word of God. I began to tell my friends about Jesus and how he saved me. This was exciting and I like to witness. There were many trials and temptations, I fell many times but in the end because of the strength from Holy Spirit and support from fellow Christians, and I began to taste victory in my battle against sin. All of this helped me to related to other people who where fighting similar battles. I am still fighting battles today, but I know that Jesus won the war long ago at the cross. Today I know in whom I believe and I can do all things through the Holy Spirit who strengthens me. Friend if you need to surrender your life to Jesus don’t be like me do it today. 2 minutes and 30 seconds.
Joe

C
Christinyou Oct 4, 2006

Very good testimony. The only thing I see a lack in is The Christ in us that is our Glory.
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Not His lack but our lack of understanding of our new birth by Christ in us.

The Holy Spirit is not our strength. The Holy Spirit is the Teacher of our Strength who is Christ in you. His prayer in John:

John 14:16-18 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Jesus Christ Himself also said He would not leave you comfortless, He Himself would come and live in you and be your life.

John 14:18-20 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

The Holy Spirit is the teacher of this truth.
John 14:26-28 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

It is the Peace of Christ in us that the life of Christ in us give us faith of Christ to live our lives in Christ and be taught by the Holy Spirit about this Christ. Our new life is Christ, your new Soul-mind is taught the Mind of Christ In us by the Holy Spirit. Your new body will be of Christ, just like His.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

This is Paul's ministry. Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

You are perfect in Christ Jesus and becoming perfect in your mind and will be perfect in body on resurrection day.

2Cr 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver [us]; Answer: Jesus Christ.

If this is to much please make it for later. Your testimony is great just like it is except for the Holy Spirit thing.

Thank you for your testimony, it gives my faith of Christ great peace in my heart to know that God is still doing what Christ came for. Making son's for His House. From the Son in me to the Son in you making us brother's in Christ, and fellow heirs with Him to the Kingdom of God. I love you brother and will pray for your presentation.

In Christ: Phillip

P
philologos Oct 4, 2006

Very good testimony. The only thing I see a lack in is The Christ in us that is our Glory.

This is a testimony not a comprehensive theology. It is fine as it is.

L
Logic Oct 4, 2006


joeSOC wrote:
Dear Friends
I was asked to give a 3 min testimony at church. I would appreciate some feedback Thank you.
Testimony
I received the Holy Spirit when a Catholic Priest laid hands on me and prayed, I knew this was the case because after he did this I became aware of my sinful condition and that my number requirement was to live a life pleasing to the Lord.

The Holy Spirit is not received by people who are not saved.
As you describe your testemony, you were not saved untill;
And made up my mind I would not go to bed until I knew I would be set free. At 4.00 am I found myself rejoicing in the knowledge that I would be with the Lord Jesus Christ after I died. What followed from then was an enormous hunger for something I desperately needed. The bible which is the word of God. I began to tell my friends about Jesus and how he saved me. This was exciting and I like to witness.

Furthermore, since the majority of Catholic Priests are not saved, I can only conclude that this one wasn't and therefore cant not pray for you to recieve what he has not and of whom he does not know.
You might want to concider that when the Catholic Priest laid hands on you is when you became aware of my sinful condition and could not do anything about it. You, then, finaly realized that and then asked that God would set you free from the Law that He put inside of you [b]Rom 1:18-20 & Rom 2:14,15 & Rom 7:18-21,[/b]
After the Law has done its job, you ended up saying, “O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” [b]Romans 7:24[/b]

philologos wrote:

This is a testimony not a comprehensive theology. It is fine as it is.


He did ask for feed back:
joeSOC wrote:
I was asked to give a 3 min testimony at church. I would appreciate some feedback Thank you.

H
HeartSong Oct 4, 2006

Dear Joe,

I liked your testimony. As you walk forward, be sure to pray that whatever you say glorifies God.

I have found that if I pray for God to show me what to say, and then listen, it is always right. If I try to say something that He has not put upon my heart, I always stumble.

sermonindex Oct 4, 2006

Dear brother Logic,

I can only conclude
You are making several assumptions here.

If Joe said he received the Holy Spirit, that has a lot more to do with God hearing his prayer and answering, than whether the person who prayed for him - in all good 'faith', very likely - was in the relationship with God which you [i]think[/i] should be necessary.

The Holy Spirit is not received by people who are not saved.
But

Gen 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


and

Romans 10
8 But what saith it?

[b]The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith[/b], which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Deuteronomy 30:14
But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest [b]do[/b] it.


Many Christians carry idols (double-heartedness and double-mindedness) and don't let it trouble them enough to drive them into God's arms for peace. Thus, they die in the wilderness.

Praise the Lord, Joe! I'm glad your experience is unique and real. This is [i]your[/i] story. You don't need to change anything or try to make it fit other people's experience or theology. God loves to show how willing He is to use whatever opportunity we give Him, to commune with us.

L
Logic Oct 5, 2006


dorcas wrote:
Praise the Lord, Joe! I'm glad your experience is unique and real. This is [i]your[/i] story. You don't need to change anything or try to make it fit other people's experience or theology.
That wouldn't make sence to change what realy happend, only understand what the truth is about it.
If Joe said he received the Holy Spirit, that has a lot more to do with God hearing his prayer and answering, than whether the person who prayed for him

He didn't say that "he prayed to receive the Holy Spirit, he only sais that a Catholic Priest laid hands on him and prayed.
Furhtermore, knowing Catholic Priests, they know not God.

How does Gen 1:2-3, Romans 10:8-9, & Deuteronomy 30:14 have to do with God hearing a sinners prayer. The only prayer God will hear from a sinner is a prayer of his own repentance.

My point to all this is that I am questioning when he actualy received the Holy Spirit.
I believe it was At 4.00 am he found himself rejoicing in the knowledge that he would be with the Lord Jesus Christ after he died; the point of his salvation.
No one receives the Holy Spirit before they are saved.

K
KindGottes Oct 5, 2006

Hi Joe,

I also like your testimony. Even though i do believe that you got saved and received the Holy Spirit in the night, when you was truly seeking God.

About that catholic priest: who are we to say that this priest wasn´t a born-again believer? Only because "most of the catholic priests" aren´t, doesn´t mean this one wasn´t. I think we really have to be careful with making assumptions like that. We don´t know the man, so we have no clue what was in his heart.

I once knew an older lady which did a bible study with us. And from her testimony and her actions I knew she was a christian. Just later I found out that she was a catholic. She died of cancer, but I know with all my heart that this sweet lady is with Jesus right now. Honestly, if someone would have told me that she was catholic before I really got to know her, I would have also thought that she wasn´t saved. But that taught me a lesson, and now I´m trying to be real careful about judging people before I really know what they believe.

In Christ
Bea

L
Logic Oct 5, 2006


KindGottes wrote:

About that catholic priest: who are we to say that this priest wasn´t a born-again believer? Only because "most of the catholic priests" aren´t, doesn´t mean this one wasn´t. I think we really have to be careful with making assumptions like that. We don´t know the man, so we have no clue what was in his heart.


It is no assumption, I am only going by the odds of the posibility of the priest being saved which are very slim; call it an educated guess.

Though He might have been saved, seeing the fruit of his prayer for joeSOC.

sermonindex Oct 6, 2006


Hi Logic,

You have brought a good deal of opposition to JoeSOC's interpretation of God's dealings with him.

You don't agree that he received the Holy Spirit when he believes he did, not because there was no change in his life as a result, but because you think the spiritual status of the person who prayed for him, might be suspect.

Further, you have an extremely narrow guage by which you approve or disapprove the prayer of a 'sinner'. Are you able to explain all the scripture with militates against this interpretation....

The only prayer God will hear from a sinner is a prayer of his own repentance.
?

You asked

How does Gen 1:2-3, Romans 10:8-9, & Deuteronomy 30:14 have to do with God hearing a sinners prayer.
I put Deuteronomy to show where Paul got the idea that the word of God is nigh thee, even in thy mouth.

And I put Gen 1:2, 3, because the Spirit was hovering over the face of the deep - the water surrounding the earth, being like the fluid which surrounds the unborn child - which (the 'spirit') as soon as he opens his mouth to gasp in the light, fills his lungs and gives him independent life.

To me, this is the same picture as the word of God being nigh thee, even in thy mouth.

The word of God was spoken over the water covering the earth, and light appeared, then dry land appeared.... (the child came out of the time of preparation in the dark).

See what I mean?

When JoeSOC asked his Father for assurance of his status with Him, it is very similar to what happens within natural families when a child begins to understand why there is a breadwinner, and that he is the beneficiary of this person's love.

L
Logic Oct 6, 2006


dorcas wrote:
You don't agree that he received the Holy Spirit when he believes he did, not because there was no change in his life as a result, but because you think the spiritual status of the person who prayed for him, might be suspect.

You missunderstand me, it is actualy both.
What does the Holy spirit do for one that He comes apon?
He gives the person power to live a godly life.

joeSOC didn't have that power until 4.00 am. When he found himself rejoicing in the knowledge that he would be with the Lord Jesus Christ after he died.

Other proofes that this is his point of salvation was what followed him from then on.

What followed from then was an enormous hunger for something I desperately needed. The bible which is the word of God.
This is the Spirit crying "Abba Father"
Further more,
I began to tell my friends about Jesus and how he saved me. This was exciting and I like to witness.
[b]Acts 1:8[/b] [color=990000]But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:[/color]
I fell many times but in the end because of the strength from Holy Spirit and support from fellow Christians, and I began to taste victory in my battle against sin.

The Holy Spirit also gives power to overcome and that is when he began to know the strength from Holy Spirit, not as before.
I was 24 and knew I must change or else I would go to Hell,

When one has the Holy Spirit, they have assurance of salvation, here, he didn't.
I knew I was doing my will instead of God’s will.
no change of heart

dorcas wrote:
I put Deuteronomy to show where Paul got the idea that the word of God is nigh thee, even in thy mouth.
Paul was talking to Christians, not sinners And Deuteronomy is tword Israel, not the Gentile(sinners).
Nonetheless, I did concur that:
Though He might have been saved, seeing the fruit of his prayer for joeSOC.

sermonindex Oct 6, 2006


Hi Logic,

Paul was talking to Christians, not sinners And Deuteronomy is tword Israel, not the Gentile(sinners).
I don't think the distinctions you make are relevant AT ALL.

There is a school of thought*, I'm discovering, which says 'all scripture .... 'etc 'but not the ones which I'(or some other teacher) 'find a good reason to discount.'

I'm sorry,I cannot live with this* way of approaching scripture AT ALL; and further, my experience of God filling my mouth with MANY relevant prayers apart from for repentance, convinces me that you are extrapolating way too far and way beyond the [i]whole counsel[/i] of the written word of God.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Deuteronomy is a very prophetic book.... that's one reason Moses was on the Mount of Transfiguration.

I would add that he was prophesying to [i]sinners[/i] in Deuteronomy; that's the WHOLE POINT of what God gave him to minister to them.

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