I am trying to understand and reconcile the two biblical truths about how God loves the world and yet He is 'angry with the wicked everyday' (psalm 7:11) and 'you hate all workers of iniquity' (Psalm 5.
Is it wrong to say to the unsaved 'Jesus loves you'?
Is it wrong to say to the unsaved 'Jesus loves you'?
Should we just tell people that Jesus loves them and thats it? no! We are in rebellion to God.
1. We Are sinners.
2. We Are enemies of God.
3. We don't seek God.
4. We don't obey God's commands.
5. We crucified Jesus.
These things should be driven to people's consciences as true, reality of realities. Until people grasp this fact then there will be no acceptance of the Love of God and of Christ the pearl of Great Price.
We need to preach the sinfulness of sin, but also the gloriousness of Christ. If all people get from our message is how awful and wicked they are and God judging them then they have not realized the gospel message. They need to see the marvelous glory of Christ our God and His sacrifice on the cross in all its glory and shame.
We need to show their [b]Condemnation[b]Cross
The preaching must been from the foundation of love, God simply does not just hate the wicked but loves them so much (all creation) that he wants all creation to be obedient to Him. The world is lost like a wayward child, Oh how God wants the world to be reconciled to Himself.
What about God's love and anger towards the saved?
Diane
You know recently I have been reading through the prophets, and I have been astounded by how GOD judged His people Israel because they were in rebellion to Him. I had to take a moment to digest that, as we have become so quick to point out how GOD is judging or is going to judge the unsaved for - well being unsaved, yet we don't think twice that He could judge HIS people.
Perhaps the new testament word would be "chastening", I do not know, but is it not arrogant to think GOD won't do the same to bring us back?
Also,I would have to agree with Greg. Telling someone that Jesus loves them while they are on the road to hell only comforts them in their rebellion to GOD when they need to be shaken awake by the Holy Spirit through our words. I think that unfotunately the effect of humanism within the church at large has led many to forget that man in and of himself is not capable of coming to GOD, as there is none that seek for Him.
So many people freak out when you say that man is depraved because they think someone is a Calvinist, yet they forget the Biblical testimony of man is that the imaginations of his heart is always wicked continually, and apart from a new heart there is no real interest toward GOD or HIS Son.
1. We Are sinners.
2. We Are enemies of God.
3. We don't seek God.
4. We don't obey God's commands.
5. We crucified Jesus.
Don't you mean we "were" rather then "are"??
Ro 5:10 - For if, when we [b]WERE
Ro 6:17 - But God be thanked, that ye [b]WERE
Ro 6:20 - For when ye [b]WERE[b]WERE
1Co 6:11 - And such [b]WERE
1Co 12:2 - Ye know that ye [b]WERE[b]WERE
Ga 4:3 - Even so we, when we [b]WERE
Eph 2:1 - And you hath he quickened, who [b]WERE
Eph 2:3 - Among whom also we all [b]had[b]in times past[b]WERE
Eph 2:5 - Even when we [b]WERE
Eph 2:12 - That at that time ye [b]WERE
Eph 2:13 - But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes [b]WERE
Eph 2:17 -And came and preached peace to you which [b]WERE
Eph 5:8 - For ye [b]WERE
The gospel is not merely that, "We broke the Law, but Jesus paid the fine" though that is part of it. But the gospel if far greater then just that. The gospel is that Christ can make a filthy sinner into a spotless saint!
Telling someone that Jesus loves them while they are on the road to hell only comforts them in
Christ seems so "unreasonable" to our natural way of thinking, doesn't he? It's amazing that countless have come to him BECAUSE they trusted his love, not in order to earn it. And Christ received them!
Does a father love his child only when he/she is good?
Can one be angry with the one he loves? Does anger require the withdrawal of love?
What might this kind of love teach the child? about God?
Perhaps a study on the Biblical meaning and use of the word "love" would be most worthwhile - and a good way to shed the faulty notions absorbed from culture and church.
"God so loved the elect that he gave his only...." mmm......... something wrong with that??
Should we be teaching "Jesus loves me.. " to our children?
What does love mean?
Diane
I suppose it all depends on the situation. As always it is difficult to make broad generalizations as the modus operandi.
For instance if I met someone as I do frequently who is without hope in tis world, I will not kick them while they are down, but also I would rely upon the Spirit to speak words to them.
But if someone is very proud of their rebellion to GOD, then they should be humbled by the adiding wrath that is upon them. [b]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
There was a study done and is cited in one of Ray Comforts books. The study showed that the majority of true converts came to Jesus not because of his "love" but because of the warnings to flee from the wrath to come.
I have had "countless"? people over the years tell me ",jesus loves me man, as they scittered of in there sinful ways. In another thread someone called for balance. Well in the old testament I read "behold the goodness and the severity of the Lord." And Paul proclaims declare the "whole counsel of God". So God can both love and hate, have mercy and have judgment. There is your balance.
God bless, John
we need to tell them all, if we only say jesus loves you then they wont se them selfs as they truly are, if god loves me just as i im, then no need to change and repent and thats why so many fall away they only had jesus as a extra something to help them to deal whit some problems, a good message on this is
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=12882&commentView=itemComments
Thank you, Diane.
I do agree with you. Just as we hate it when our kids disobey us, so does God hates it when we disobey Him. Doesn´t mean He hates us.
Also, He doesn´t want anyone to perish, does He? He wants everyone to come to repentance, but while they are still sinners, He still loves them.
Bea
He wants everyone to come to repentance,
if god loves me just as i im, then no need to change and repent
A parent who truly loves his child isn't going to let him stay dirty (selfish) all his life. Nor will the child view that as true love (in the long run).
So with God.
Yes God loves me regardless of what I'm like. But he loves me enough to do whatever it takes to let me see my need for him so that I will come to him for cleansing.
A weak understanding of divine love leads to legalism - an attempt to win, earn, or keep God's love. This is what displeases God immensely because it is rooted in an unwillingness to trust fully in God's love and mercy (his redemption through Christ)
If we don't grasp this, our evangelism will produce a lot of legalists (converts who still trust in the flesh). Probably Jesus and Paul spoke against no offense more than this one. And it is still angers God today - probably more than any other sin. And it is still very prevelent in the church.
May God help us grasp how wide and long and high and deep the love of Christ is. (from Eph 1:19 )
Those who really BELIEVE and KNOW God's love are the ones who turn the world upside down for Christ.
All the others merely do paint jobs here and there.
Diane
Yes God loves me regardless of what I'm like. But he loves me enough to do whatever it takes to let me see my need for him so that I will come to him for cleansing.
Some really good points, and I agree Diane about steering clear of legalism. Paul said that it was the love of Christ that compelled him and so we have to understand Christ's love for us and His love for sinners.
I got so into the teaching that God is angry with sinners that i began to only see sinners as wicked rebels (which i know they are- as was I) but now i am beginning to see them through Christ's eyes- that yes they are wicked rebels against God but 'God has demonstrated his own love toward us in that while we were still sinners (rebels) Christ died for us'. I am now trying to look on all the unsaved, especially the worst as men and women for whom Christ died.
Do you think this is a helpful way to view people?
It is difficult because again the psalmist writes 'how I hate thos who hate you' and as a lover of God and Christ you experience something of this feeling toward the unrepentant sinner, and yet also we are to love them and see them through Christ's eyes. Its a difficult balance hey?
Here4Him wrote:
Is it wrong to say to the unsaved 'Jesus loves you'?
I think only in the sence that people do not understand love in the "biblical" sence. Bible love (agape) is about "giving" as opposed to "taking". The other thing is that "hate" is proportional to "love". When their is no love for the person "hated", it is not really hate, but indifference.
I have no problem telling sinners that God loves them, but I always point out that it is a jilted love, as a husband that cannot help but love his adulterous wife. Eventually the husband must say "Enough is enough". This "patient jilted love" is what is described in Hosea.
Most sinners can comprehend the kind of betrayal that exists when someone commits adultery against them (even if they think the promiscuity is acceptable). This betrayal is what makes the love of God a fearful thing. It is also helpful to present John 3:16 in series with vv17-18. This shows that God's love is one that offers one last chance, but if it is rejected then we are "condemed already".
At the end of the day, do not forget that the "love of God is manifest, in that [b]while we were yet sinners
I've often heard, "You shouldn't just go around and tell people 'Jesus loves you'.
For awhile, I thought, yea your right.
Now, in the book of Acts the fear of God is referenced more then the love of God.
But even Jesus said:
"I have loved you" Joh 13:34
"I have loved you." Joh 15:12
We DEFFINATELY need to tell people that Jesus loves them, by dying on the cross for them! That is not to neglect the law, hell, judgment, etc.
But if we are not preaching the love of God revealed at the cross, can we really say that we are preaching the gospel at all???
I don't think so.
A parent who truly loves his child isn't going to let him stay dirty (selfish) all his life. Nor will the child view that as true love (in the long run).
So are you saying that the unsaved are HIS children? If so, I would say this is not Biblical. They have a creator, but they have chosen to worship and serve the creation rather than the creator.
Take for instance if I came to your house abd said,"hello mom." You would rightly say I do not know who you are. I did not give birth to you, and no matter how much I insisted you could plainly state that you did not give birth to me and therefore I was not your child.
When the pharisees told Jesus that they knew who their father was, he told them, "if Abraham were your father you would do his works, [b]but you are of your father the devil
Until the new birth no one can say GOD is my Father, else why be born again?
Man must have a new heart in place of the rebellious heart of stone thus we must be born again.
Only Christians are children of God. Non Christians are children of the devil.
They need to be, as the bible says, "adopted" into the family of God.
But all people, saved or unsaved, are a part of God's "creation" though not all are "children".
And God has a love (aka care, concern) for all that He has created. And because He cares for all of His creation, He hates and is angry towards everything that is harmful to His creation.
Yeah, i agree the bible does teach that God has two levels of love (if you can put it in such a crude way). His love for all He has made (what some call his common grace)-He is good to all and has compassion on all He has made and this is revealed even by sustaining the lives of the rebellious and wicked Christ rejectors. This is the basis for our Lord's teaching in the sermon on the mount for why we should love our enemies- because God loves His enemies- in the sense that He is good to them and has compassion on them.
Then there is the love that God has only and specially for His children, and as we know, that is only for those who are "in Christ". When we are in Christ He loves us as He loves His dearly beloved Son, because He sees us as He sees His Son. Paul says in Romans 8 that that "nothing can seperate us from the love of God that is IN CHRIST JESUS". I think we have to be so careful to guard and defend this truth. So many Christians just think yeah 'God loves everyone', and they mean He loves everyone the same. Their God would never punish the wicked because He loves everyone, right!
I think that what we are saying is that when talking of the love of God to sinners it has to be in the context of the cross- which is where the love of God to a wicked world was so wonderfully and vividly demonstrated.
Doesn't a true understanding of the glorious doctrine of the cross of Jesus applify the love of God greatly in that when people understand their sin and the punishment they deserve for offending this good God- and yet at the very point of their highest rebellion- He sent His Son to be the sacrifice for our sins! These 'good news carriers' (which is how i heard one gospel preacher recently describe himself) who only softly say God loves you and talk about the nice things of the gospel are actually hindering people truly understanding the depth and vastness of the love of God in Christ Jesus.
I guess I am only saying what we all know here- but it does me good to write it!
Do you agree that if when preaching the gospel we only come down hard on sinners by speaking of law and sin and judgement but then don't also woo them to Christ with His love, telling them how much He has loved them- we are doing the God of love who we serve a great injustice and are representing Him only as a harsh God. I mean we would all no doubt mention the cross toward the end of our sermon (or one on one witnessing conversation ) but i think we have to avoid the danger of almost enjoying telling sinners the bad news of law and sin and judgment and then only speaking of the cross because we ought to. I was conficted a while ago by the Lord that i was beginning to enjoy telling sinners the bad news more than i did in telling them the good news. Surely this is wrong and such people are poor witnesses for Jesus Christ.
Why are people going to cast themselves on a Jesus who doesn't really love them? I think that we are well out of order if we are not also presenting a Christ who 'receives sinners (Luke 15:2) who pleads with sinners (Luke 13:34)and who loves sinners.
We know the teaching about the wrath of God, we have heard 'hells best kept secret' and 'the way of the master teaching' but we must be careful that we don't in reaction to the soft'God loves you' message swing too far the other way. We must present the beautiful biblical balance of the 'kindness and severity of our God'. Because surely Christianity is about 'loving God' and 'we love Him because He first loved us'.
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