Brother Lawrence?

Does anyone know much about 'Brother Lawrence'? Or has anyone read his book 'practising the presence of God'? Can we learn from him and his life or was he just another catholic mystic?

I HIGHLY recommend the works of Brother Lawrence. If you love Tozer, you will love Brother Lawrence because they both loved God!

what is a catholic mystic? :-?

Yes! He truly walked closely with God. You can read "The Practice of the Presence of God" here:

http://www.practicegodspresence.com/brotherlawrence/practicegodspresence.html

I don't know how or why some "discernment ministers" lump him into the "contemplative meditation" category. The man prayed out loud almost constantly. If ever a person obeyed the command, Pray without ceasing, it's him. His was not silent prayer or meditation. If you read his work, you know what kind of devoted lover of Jesus he was. Lord bless each of you as you seek Him with all your heart.

Hi Here4Him,

Yes I read his book some years back. It's actually more of a collection of letters that he wrote in instructing his friend in prayer than a "book". The main point is that we are to pray without ceasing and that God is present with us all the time and to be mindful of that. He took that to heart and made a point of focusing on that truth on a daily basis. The book shares his insights as he was growing in this area.

It's a good book to read but the only thing that left me a bit frustrated was that as a monk Brother Lawrence spent his work duty in the kitchen peeling potatoes and he spent this time in prayer while he worked. I dare say it's a whole lot easier to practice the presence of God in a quiet monastary kitchen than in a busy office with phones ringing off the hook. I found myself thinking when I finished the book, "Easy for him!"

I think it's still worth the read though.

Blessings,

Bereangirl

Hi "Here for Him",
I have had never heard of Brother Lawrence until
I heard Tozer mention his name in one of his sermons and this motivated me to read his book,I count it a blessing to have it in my book collection and I carry it in my car.
I know after reading it I asked the LORD to help me be more aware of His Presence in my life.
Praise be to Jesus.
Jaime.

MSeaman wrote:
what is a catholic mystic? :-?

For all the good that these mystics did for the Body of Christ, there were others such as Anne Catherine Emmerich who unleashed teachings that stressed Marian Worship and emphasised Transubstantiation (ie, RC Eucharist..bread BECOMES body, wine BECOMES blood). It was Emmerich's book "The Dolorous Passion of Christ" that inspired Mel Gibson's "The Passion", and although many a division has come from varying opinions of this movie, the book is heavily Roman.

Based on my limited understanding of the mystics, I think that it's mostly a case of "grew up in the wrong century". Many were imprisoned because their teachings cut across the grain of the standard Papal rubbish of their time. I'm often reminded of the fact that both Martin Luther and Francis Xavier were Dominican Priests, however one sparked the Protestant Reformation, while the other sought to end it. Perhaps it's like many of us who, in spite of being frustrated with the apparent apostasy our denominations and fellowships, are forbidden to leave by our Master.

One thing is for certain, for the most most part, these people knew God, in ways that have been long forgotten and/or neglected. It could be said that as the most eclectic Jazz is to the musician, so the writings of the mystics is to the theologian. Much of what they say fall on deaf ears as either stupidity or offensiveness (sounds a bit like the cross;-)), while only those who have come to the end of reading all the saccharin attempts to explain away things that don't fit into the various "theological categories" can tolerate the bittersweet flavour, that is reminiscent of the finest chili or curry dish, that would have children running for a pitcher of water. Alexander Whyte commenting on Boehme's writings states:

Though there is a great deal of needless and wearisome repetition in Jacob Behmen’s writings, at the same time there is scarcely a single subject in the whole range of theology on which he does not throw a new, an intense, and a brilliant light. In his absolutely original and magnificent doctrine of God, while all the time loyally true to it, Behmen has confessedly transcended the theology of both the Latin and the Reformed Churches; and, absolutely unlettered man though he is, has taken his stand at the very head of the great Greek theologians. The Reformers concentrated their criticism upon the anthropology and soteriology of the Church of Rome, and especially upon the discipline and worship connected therewith. They saw no need for recasting any of the more fundamental positions of pure theology. And while Jacob Behmen, broadly speaking, accepts as his own confession of faith all that Luther and Calvin and their colleagues taught on sin and salvation, on the corruption and guilt of sinners, and on the redeeming work of our Lord, he rises far above the greatest and best of his teachers in his doctrine of the Godhead. Not only does he rise far higher in that doctrine than either Rome or Geneva, he rises far higher and sounds far deeper than either Antioch, or Alexandria, or Nicomedia, or Nice.

For more on the Mystics, check out some of their works:
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=461]Francois de Salignac de la Mothe-Fenelon[/url]
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=234]Madame Guyon[/url]
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=429]Jacob Behmen (Jakob Boehme)[/url]
(Check out, also [url=http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16306/16306-h/16306-h.htm]Jacob Behmen an appreciation[/url] by Alexander Whyte)
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=51]William Law[/url]

I have read part of Madame Guyon's biography. and it was interesting to me. I see that she used every hard thing in her life to pull in closer to Christ. It is interesting to see someone actually live that way.

I wasn't sure if her experience (and it didn't seem strange or flaky to me) was something that would be seen as strange or flaky like some of the weirdness going on today in the name of God.

Thank You CJaKfOrEsT for the explanation! :-D

I have to admit, I have the book by brother Lawrence, but I only read half the book. For some reason I could not read the rest. Let's face it, it's a very short book. But I just could not read it.

Something about it just didn't feel right.

Sorry I can't quote any scripture about the way I felt about the book, other than Romans 14v23 which says, 'But he who DOUBTS is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith, for WHATEVER is not from faith is sin'.

This scripture speaks in regard to food, but goes on to say whatever, meaning everything.

With that, I'll close.

God bless.

Thanks for all thats been said.

Bereangirl,
I know just what you mean- it is so hard to be mindful of the Lord all the time when you are busy and having things to do. I think it it something we all need to work on whether we are peeling potatoes, in an office or working in Christian ministry like me! How can we work on this? Any suggestions? Perhaps I should read Brother Lawrence to find out!

CJaKfOrEsT, thanks for your explanation of the mystics- i learned more about them through that.

Finally, i guess the main reason why I posted this thread was because I had heard about Bro Lawrence and was researching him because I was doing a RS lesson on prayer in a school. As i was reading about him i stumbled across something that he was quoted as saying which concerned me:

"after having given myself wholly to GOD, to make all the satisfaction I could for my sins, I renounced, for the love of Him, everything that was not He; and I began to live as if there was none but He and I in the world ..."

'Make all the satisfaction I could for my sins'? Didn't he understand the gospel?

Maybe i am doing the man a great injustice and misunderstanding him here- maybe we can learn a lot from him and his writings. If as you say he was a man who loved and knew God then i suppose we can learn from him, but do you see why I had concern?

As an example of a praying man i stuck to what I saw as the safer bet of 'Praying Hyde' and posted this thread to ask the question and Bro Lawrence!

Most of the preachers that have been of greatest blessing, including Tozer, Chambers, Reidhead, Wesley, amongst others, have been greatly influenced by the likes of Guyon, Fennelon, Lawrence, Boehme, and Law (although the last two weren't Catholic).

philologos wrote:
I'm not sure whether or not Chambers ought to be in this list. I think he was much more suspicious of the mystics than Tozer or Wesley. For myself I share his suspicions.

I think that Chambers was "suspicious" of everyone, with possible exception of P.T Forsythe. In saying suspicious, I would probably rather put cautious, in the sence of recognising that we must "let God be true, and every man a liar", and not in a kind of "watch out for this guy, he can't be trusted". Chambers exhorted his students to read secular philosphy and psychology, saying that a man of "one Book" will often read other books, and is aware of error in contrast with truth.

The basis of my inclusion of Chambers in this list, is based on this except from his biography, "Abandoned to God":

Undoubtedly the greatest influence on Chambers and countless other students was Dr. Alexander Whyte, pastor of Free St. George’s Church. More than a great pulpit orator, Whyte was also a dedicated teacher of the Bible. Every Sunday, following the evening preaching service, five hundred young men gathered at 8:15 in Free St. George’s for Dr. Whyte’s Class. The venerated pastor came down from the pulpit, took off his clerical gown and spoke informally, but with great intensity, for forty-five minutes. Just before nine o’clock, he stated three or four questions for the men to consider as they read during the coming week.

During Chambers’ first year in Edinburgh, Whyte focused on “The Mystics” during these Young Men’s Classes. Each week he discussed the spiritual vitality and commitment of Tauler, Thomas a Kempis, Luther, Santa Teresa, St. John of the Cross, Madame Guyon, and Fenelon. Through books like Vaughan’s Hours With the Mystics and Theologica Germanica he introduced his eager students to many of the spiritual and devotional writers of the seventeenth century. In 1896 the class began a series titled “The Great Autobiographies.” Alexander Whyte loved great books and freely recommended them to his listeners. Many times Chambers saw him hold aloft a battered old volume with loving care as he urged his audience, “Sell your beds and buy it.”

enid wrote:
I have to admit, I have the book by brother Lawrence, but I only read half the book. For some reason I could not read the rest. Let's face it, it's a very short book. But I just could not read it.

Something about it just didn't feel right.

I felt the same way, enid. And I couldn't describe why.

I could sum the book up for you in a few sentences. "Do everything as it was unto God. Keep God on your mind, when your doing dishes, cleaning your house, and any/everything you do. As if you were madly in love with God, let Him be your every thought."

There have been a few times in my life where He was my every thought. Wow, what a blessing to have God on your mind all the time. 8-) Nothing but an eternal well of refreshing water.

Bless ya.

Bereangirl;

It's a good book to read but the only thing that left me a bit frustrated was that as a monk Brother Lawrence spent his work duty in the kitchen peeling potatoes and he spent this time in prayer while he worked. I dare say it's a whole lot easier to practice the presence of God in a quiet monastary kitchen than in a busy office with phones ringing off the hook. I found myself thinking when I finished the book, "Easy for him!"

[i]"after having given myself wholly to GOD, to make all the satisfaction I could for my sins, I renounced, for the love of Him, everything that was not He; and I began to live as if there was none but He and I in the world ..."[/i]

'Make all the satisfaction I could for my sins'? Didn't he understand the gospel?

Maybe i am doing the man a great injustice and misunderstanding him here- maybe we can learn a lot from him and his writings.

Would chalk that up to a 'turn of the phrase', believe the meaning is more in line with having ones confession up to date.

Aaron;

Based on my limited understanding of the mystics, I think that it's mostly a case of "grew up in the wrong century".

Interesting how that particular tag often ends up on those who 'buck' the system.

It could be said that as the most eclectic Jazz is to the musician, so the writings of the mystics is to the theologian. Much of what they say fall on deaf ears as either stupidity or offensiveness (sounds a bit like the cross), while only those who have come to the end of reading all the saccharin attempts to explain away things that don't fit into the various "theological categories" can tolerate the bittersweet flavour, that is reminiscent of the finest chili or curry dish, that would have children running for a pitcher of water.

Do understand well enough the caution raised about these things, there are some other threads around here placing a caution and consideration, would only broaden it to even the theology of other great minds of the Lord, always testing with that 'suspicion' of a Berean.

During Chambers’ first year in Edinburgh, Whyte focused on “The Mystics” during these Young Men’s Classes. Each week he discussed the spiritual vitality and commitment of Tauler, Thomas a Kempis, Luther, Santa Teresa, St. John of the Cross, Madame Guyon, and Fenelon.

btw

I think that Chambers was "suspicious" of everyone, with possible exception of P.T Forsythe. I

I am suspicious of Forsyth!!

I am suspicious of Mike Balog ;-)

Hello,
I invite you to spend some time at [url=http://www.PracticeGodsPresence.com/index.html]www.PracticeGodsPresence.com[/url].

In addition to Brother Lawrence's "The Practice of the Presence of God" as it was first published, there are twelve small books of Reflections on Practicing God's Presence and also an "easy on the eyes" edition of THE GOSPEL.

Read with humility, simplicity, faith, and love for Our Father and I hope you will see that this is a lifestyle for all of us, no matter our age or circumstances.

I am totally dedicated to the Brother Lawrence tradition because it is the way of Our Lord.

May God draw you ever closer to Him!

Such a small book, yet so powerful in its applications.