Did anyone else notice this.....?

Members,

Why do alot of Christians hate homosexuality with such passion, but then they seem to forget about adultery, fornication,etc.? Sexual sin is sexual sin. The people that are saying things like "Homos are hellbound" and whatever else, seem to forget Jesus's teaching on if you look at a woman with lust, you have committed adultery with her already in your heart. What I am saying is if you are going to hate homosexuality, shouldn't you hate adultery and pre marital sex just as much.

I realize I am not talking about all Christians, but it is just something I have noticed over the years.

Murray

Murray,

If I recall... it is this very point some homos will chastize christians because of their looseness about other sexual sins. They have become very tolorant and accepting and wonder why the difference? And I, for one, think they are right! It makes no sense at all to be ambivilent about other sexual sins but get all fired up about homosexuality. In God's eyes one is as deadly as the other; both need to be repented of and forsaken like a deadly plague.

ginnyrose

bro Krispy

We are to hate all sin, and the wages of sin is death no matter if it is adultry, homosexuality, lying, cheating, stealing, etc. So on one hand I agree. On the other hand, God specifically calls homosexuality an "abomination". A word that God reserved for only a few specific sins. So apparently God has a more fervent hatred for that sin over many others. I know it's very popular on here for people to think that all sin is equal, but that is not scriptural. There are sins that God hates more than others. Keep in mind... He hates all sin. But there appears to be differing degrees of hatred.

i agree with you on the first part about how we ought to hate sin period and the wages of sin is death irrespective of what sin it is. i was curious when you said the word abomination is reserved for a few sins so i did a word-search using crosswalk.com i used the KJV so we are on the same page.

the word abomination appears 69 times throughout the word. in some cases it is used in reference to certain peoples, like the Jews being shepherds were an abomination to the Egyptians here in Genesis 46 vs 34:

[b]That ye shall say, Thy servants' trade hath been about cattle from our youth even until now, both we, and also our fathers: that ye may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians[/b]

also here in speaking of creatures which don't have fins or scales are an abomination to the Jews in Leviticus 11 vs 10

[b]And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: [/b]

i found it interesting though that in the mention of abomination in leviticus, homosexuality is not said to be an abomination to the Lord as evidenced here in leviticus 18: 22

[b]Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination[/b]

and in 20:13

[b]If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. [/b]

of course this is not to say this sin should be ignored but i find it interesting the things which are specifically said to be "an abomination UNTO the Lord"

deut 7:25

[b]The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God. [/b]

Deut 12 31

[b]Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods[/b]

sacrifice to idols and idolatry seem to be an affront to the True God.

Deut 17:1
[b]Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, 54 wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God.[/b]

Deuteronomy 18:9-14
[b]9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 13 Thou shalt be perfect 55 with the LORD thy God. 14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, 56 hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. [/b]

the emerging pattern to me is that those things which are called an abomination unto God have to do with idolatry and sacrificing to idols as opposed to worshipping and sacrificing to God HImself because they make God out to be anything but what He is, the True God and assign this to false gods which are no gods at all.

Deut 22 vs 5
[b]The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God[/b]

perhaps there is no difference between an abomination unto and an abomination before the Lord but even using diverse weights is an abomination before God. this is cheating ad stealing.if there is though then perhaps we have ignored some of the more grievous sins such as idolatry in all it's forms, cheating, divination, necromancy astrology etc. we are in agreement that homosecuality is a grievous thing in the eyes of God however it is interesting to note here in Proverbs 6 that there are 7 things which God hates:

[b]12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth. 13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers; 14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth 20 discord. 15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy. 16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud 21 look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. [/b]

then in James the word says this:

james chapt 2 vs 8

[b]If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. [/b]

so even if we have not been homosexualys, we may as well have because in lying, stealing and so on we have trangressed not just that part of the law, but the WHOLE law.

I personally think God hates this sin more than others because homosexuality flies right in the face of His very creation. He created us man and woman with very specific functions and abilities... and to partake in His creation by bearing forth new life. For a man to join his body with another man, or woman to woman, is perhaps the most flagrant form of rebellion and disobedience man can come up with.

if homosexuality is unnatural and rebellious, how much more rebellious and unnatural is adultery? or is it not as bad because it's a man and a woman, never mind that God commanded us to have 1 husband/wife? the most flagrant form of disobedience to me is idolatry, God seems to have a bigger issue with that than other things because that was the cause of Israel being ransacked and destroyed through the ages.

So I think outrage at homosexuality is ok. We should also be outraged at adultry too. I think it's a misnomer to say that believers arent outraged by adultry and fornication... who ever said we werent? But you dont see adulterers and fornicators insisting that the church accept them as they are (for the most part). They know they are sinning. The homosexual claims he/she isnt sinning, and that God is ok with their sin. That is the difference, and that is the cause for the attention the homosexual community receives from the church... the true church, that is.

we may not say we aren't outraged by fornicating and adultery but we don't shout as loud about it as we do homosexuality. i think the issue has more to do with the vast majority of people in the Faith not being guilty of homosexuality but being guilty of adultery, fornication or even both. who wants to make it known that they are guilty of such sordid things? this exposes us as hypocrites.

sure the adulterers and fornicators may not throw it in our faces but you said they know they are sinning. isn't sinning knowingly THAT much more serious in God's eyes? in Hebrews 2 and 10 and 1 Peter 2 we are warned not to play with the blood of Christ by continuing in sin and saying "we can be forgiven" if the unrepentant unsaved sinner deserves God's wrath (which he surely does) how much more deserving are we then who not only KNOW God but are bought by the Blood of Christ!?! YIKES bro! that scares me.and then the judgement of God begins with us because we are supposed to be the standard?!?HElp us Jesus! bro the long and short is, if we don't get serious about combatting adultery, porn, fornication and so on, the homosexual will not take repenting seriously and will use that as an excuse. what incentive have they to repent if they see us doing all these things and yet trying to tell them they need to repent when we ourselves have not repented? that is the reason why we have largely failed in the world, we have come to Christ but not repented and continued on as before so the world has no incentive to repent. our proclamations of repentance have no power unless we ourselves have repented, only then can the conviction which precedes repentance go forth.

also there are by far many more homes which have been destroyed and lives wrecked by adultery and fornication than ever have been by homosexuality and yet our children fornicate like there is no tomorrow. our pastors and so on commit adultery, marry and divorce, are addicted to porn...there are probably more Christian men out there addicted to porn than homosexuals and yet the church remains largely silent about this issue...

we're a bunch of hypocrites alright and God is going to prove it when the judgement hits us, who are called by His name and on whose account the world speaks evily of God and scoffs at Him because we have failed to represent Him as He is in fact...

God help us REPENT, REPENT, REPENT OR WE SHALL SURELY DIE!AMEN

bro Jordan

My theory on why the social conservatives and street preachers get so "fired up" concerning homosexuality is because for most of them, they have not "touched" this unclean sin. It is one of the 'sins' that they can say, "look, I have not gone this far!" It is very sinful for the person in this sense. It may even be subconsciously thought, but nonetheless. The same thing with Abortion. Why do so many 'street preachers' just preach about abortion like they will about homosexuality-- as if this is some morality religion we have going here (we should not preach 'sins' but Jesus-- that is another discussion all together though).

that's the same conclusion i came to...but the word tells us that if we kept the whole law and failed one part of it, we have failed the whole law. but mention adultery and the tone is likely to change...that is a thing which is by far more rampant...

Homosexuality is no worse in my view (and Biblically) than adultery. God created us for man and for woman as much as he created us with the ability to go into marriage covenant. Breaking that marriage covenant is on the same par, so is even stealing. The only thing worse that the Bible attests to from what I understand of it is hypocrisy.

both are indeed grievous sexual sins though i think the latter has done more damage and yet somehow hasn't been met with the same vehemence as the former. i looked up abomination in the bible (not sure if you read my first response) but homosexuality is said to simply be an abomination. there are abominations in relation to people, like eating sea creatures with fins to the Jews, and then there are things which are called an abomination unto God and homosexuality isn't mentioned in that way. i'm not sure if there is a difference, i suspect there is. it is an abomination unto God to worship/make idols, sacrifice to them because they are an affront to His Godhood. it is also and abomination unto God to wear women's clothing...

the thing though that rings clear throught the word is that God hates idolatry, cheating and hypocracy. Hypocracy is the thing which God Israel in trouble every time, they said one thing and did another, they lied, cheated, stole, worshipped idols yet they fronted and made like they worshipped God. whenever Israel was about to get it from God, those were the things which always came up. how much less guilty are we than they? how much more harsh will the judgement on us be since we are supposed to be under the Blood of Christ yet we treat it with such contempt somtimes...Lord help us!

Hi Murdog,

Why do a lot of Christians hate homosexuality with such passion, but then they seem to forget about adultery, fornication,etc.?

Why? Because they fall into the category of conservative "worldly" sinners. No offence to them but they are what is considered the political right and that is what they stand on. I've heard that the modern apostate church follows around five years after the political parties in Washington. For them, this is the major issue in the American politics today. And if I may say this, just as the apostate church has embraced divorce, which was one of the older issues, was it became ok in American hierarchy. So to will this generations "church" with sodomites. No getting around it. Sad to say but the "church" is leaning that way.

Watch yourselves brethren. Soon what is left of the church is going to fall head first into total acceptance of all sins. They welcome 75% and are just caught up on a few that are left. Look at their views on a righteous life. There is none there. This blindness is no different than the Jews with Messiah.

Is this the Church? Not in the light of scripture. They are a social club for conservative sinners.

I once heard a brother preach saying, "To say a someone is a worldly christian is no different than to call them a pagan a believer."

No distinction. There is only one way. Let us follow God and pursue holiness in reverence to almighty God.

The Lord bless you all, bro Doug

Ironman wrote:

but the word tells us that if we kept the whole law and failed one part of it, we have failed the whole law.

I have noticed one thing recently - if a person is guilty of one sin, he is also involved in others? Did you ever hear a person get into a fit of anger and then lie somewhere in the process? Or let a person be involved in fornication...can he/she be trusted in other things? A loved one is [I suspect] involved in this sin and he has said things I doubt as being the truth. Get the point? Yes, commiting one sin will make it much easier to get involved with others. The heart of the issue is that the person is estranged from God, serving their father, the devil, and so it would naturally follow their god will impact their entire lifestyle.

ginnyrose

1Co 15:56 - Show Context
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

Ro 6:23 - Show Context
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ro 6:16 - Show Context
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Jas 2:10 - Show Context
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

It is scary it is me that needs to repent more often of this!! It takes one sin to send us to hell and one cross and one jesus to get us out of hell!!!
I think I thought about for this for quite a time and it drove me into deep depression if you add that God is a sinless god who cannot cope with sin and it is but his grace that we can enter in to his presence
DOm

Brethren,

Very good responses! Ironman, your first response hit me like a train. Many of the so called church, myself included are such hypocrites.

When are we going to clean the inside of the dish.

Repent, Repent, Repent or we shall surely Die!

Murray

I think Krispy hit on something key below.

The homosexual draws fire because he is organized as a social and political group. Adultery may be the most common secret sin, but adulterers aren't formally lobbying democrats for political and social elevation. Compromise and hypocrasy aside, adultery is categorized as a sin but homosexuality is categorized as an identity.

This probably explains why this particular sin is isolated and singled out. If swingers organized themselves and used politics and legislature to gain access into public education and churches under their sexual identity banner, then I believe they would draw similar fire.

MC

It is one of the 'sins' that they can say, "look, I have not gone this far!"

Or in other words, pride.

Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Part of the problem with this conjecture is that this is often made to be a single, seperate abomination;

Lev 18:26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit [u]any[/u] of [u]these[/u] abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:

Lev 18:27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)

Go back and read all of chapter 18. The problem it seems is one of being selective, from our stand point, the other is that to draw attention to the fact is to assume that lends a particular creedence or lessening of the one in question. Spliting hairs in our actuality, raising or lowering the degree according to [i]our[/i] particular disgust or lack thereof.

[b]Abomination[/b]

H8441
תּעבה תּועבה
tô‛êbah tô‛êbah
to-ay-baw', to-ay-baw'
Feminine active participle of H8581; properly something [i]disgusting[/i] (morally), that is, (as noun) an [i]abhorrence[/i]; especially idolatry or (concretely) an [i]idol[/i]: - abominable (custom, thing), abomination.

The rub is also more pronounced if it is considered again how Jesus treated the situation with the woman caught in the act of adultery. The pride, the hypocrisy and the sin were all dealt with, in that order. We might be able to draw some conclusions from that not only in what might constitute the 'level' of importance in God's sight but also by the manner of how they were each dealt with by the Lord. This sin is in the list of abominations that the same one in question is drawn from.

[i]And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.[/i]
Luk 18:9-14

bro Mike C
i bless God for you bro because through you i think i see clearly what Krispy has been trying to get across. i never thought of the lobbying homosexuals do and that adulterers don't do that...well maybe not for adultery related issues in politics anyway. we can't ignore that aspect of it and i agree with that, though i am concerned though that we do not examine ourselves enough nor live as we ought so that our lives may testify against this sin. it is hard to do so if we are caught up in adulteries and so on because it does kill our witness. thanks for openning my eyes to that. ok bro Krispy i see part of why you get so fired up, i hope you see why i get so fired up about adultery. adultery is a far more common thing and while it is known to be sin, i don't think we take it as seriously as homosexuality although it is more rampant in the church and has done much more damage in the church also.

live as we ought so that our lives may testify against this sin.

You are so right Iron.

The singular political and social front of homosexual lobby I mentioned has willingly engaged in public combat... but our 'fighting' homosexuality will not distract God's notice of our own horrible sins. In fact the homosexual lobby may be emoboldened precisely because those who claim to be Godly in our society do not pattern a fear of God.

It will take more then social and political power to stem the tide of perversion...too little reaction too late.

Your comment above reminded me of an analogy I saw for the church last week while watching a video explanation of nuclear energy.

If we take a little firecracker and light it's fuse we unleash it's chemical power and it explodes briefly and makes a noise and maybe even an impressive light show. However, the chemical power contained in the firecracker is nothing when compared to the nuclear power stored in it's atoms. If the nuclear energy of a tiny firecracker could ever be unleashed then the power is measured on a completely different...and quite unbelievable scale.

Likewise the church lives too much along the short fuse of it's emotional, political, economic, and even moral urgency...and is not unleashing true spiritual power which comes less from exertion and more from abiding. Here I am careful to not confuse pyrotechnic displays of supernaturalism with spiritual power. By spiritual power I mean the character of Christ, that state of living wherein we are diminished and Jesus is increased in even the most secret and banal parts of our daily existence.

Because we view many spiritual battles as external struggles, and because we seek an external victory that glories in the Church's will to triumph... rather then first a surrendering of the Church's will to Christ...well we have no inner life...and no power. At least that is how I see these things.

Bless God for understanding between us Ironman. It really is sweet when brothers dwell in unity!

MC

bro Murray

murdog wrote:
Brethren,

Very good responses! Ironman, your first response hit me like a train. Many of the so called church, myself included are such hypocrites.

When are we going to clean the inside of the dish.

Repent, Repent, Repent or we shall surely Die!

Murray

indeed bro, i'm convicted of my own sins in this area, my own fornications and so on. God does not take those things lightly at all...also like the word says, unless you repent, you will likewise perish...God help us repent lest we perish also.

bro Crsschk

thanks for that lesson bro, i'm reminded of Christ's warning, except ye repent, you shall likewise perish...

bro Mike Compton

The singular political and social front of homosexual lobby I mentioned has willingly engaged in public combat... but our 'fighting' homosexuality will not distract God's notice of our own horrible sins. In fact the homosexual lobby may be emoboldened precisely because those who claim to be Godly in our society do not pattern a fear of God.

bro Mike, bro Mike, bro Mike, this is the thing which weighs heavy on my heart and i bless God for those who share this burden. God knows i need every now and then to hear from Him through such a one! it seems to me we are aware that the world is going to receive it's judgement from God, and it richly deserves it. however we have forgotten that judgment begins at the House of God. we have forgotten that we too will be judged for our own transgressions and if the world deserves it's judgement, how much more then do we deserve it since we are called by His Name, and bought of His Blood and yet we behave like the world? God sees their sin and He for sure sees ours. indeed the homosexual lobby has been much emboldened by our hypocracy. i think it was New Jersey this past week passed a law allowing homosexual marriages. we're trying to get the constitution ammended to say marriage should be for men and women only, a noble thing but then the divorce rate is 50% or so. YIKES! so the argument then becomes "well how does homosexual marriage infringe on heterosexual marriage when the divorce rate is already so high?" noble as it may be, our lives do not have the power to back this up.because of our own lack of fear for God, the heathen speak so evily of Him. i've seen some of the horrendous things said by atheists, seen some of their videos on youtube. it is astouding.

If we take a little firecracker and light it's fuse we unleash it's chemical power and it explodes briefly and makes a noise and maybe even an impressive light show. However, the chemical power contained in the firecracker is nothing when compared to the nuclear power stored in it's atoms. If the nuclear energy of a tiny firecracker could ever be unleashed then the power is measured on a completely different...and quite unbelievable scale.

i bless God for you bro! thank you Father Son and Holy Ghost! the above analogy was most powerful.

Likewise the church lives too much along the short fuse of it's emotional, political, economic, and even moral urgency...and is not unleashing true spiritual power which comes less from exertion and more from abiding. Here I am careful to not confuse pyrotechnic displays of supernaturalism with spiritual power. By spiritual power I mean the character of Christ, that state of living wherein we are diminished and Jesus is increased in even the most secret and banal parts of our daily existence.

indeed bro indeed. i couldn't have put it in a better way so Got had you do it! and that is something we need to really get a grip on.

Because we view many spiritual battles as external struggles, and because we seek an external victory that glories in the Church's will to triumph... rather then first a surrendering of the Church's will to Christ...well we have no inner life...and no power. At least that is how I see these things.

WHOA! this is heavy stuff right here, if our lives aren't backing up what we're saying, it's not going to impact anyone because there is no evidence...bless you bro.

Bless God for understanding between us Ironman. It really is sweet when brothers dwell in unity!

bless God indeed bro because it is a most wondeful thing when brothers can be in unity because it is evidence of the same SPirit at work in us.

Here is one place in the scripture that speaks of this sin and is quoted by many to show God hates homosexuality:

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:

Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

This is where many stop with their bible reading. It is very easy to pick out these verses and stop, but the Word goes on to the next verse to describe some more things about these reprobate people.

Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Many of the people who spend so much time on the sin of homosexuality forget that these later sins describe sins that they have had or even currently have in their own life, sins that are common in the church. This word goes on though to the next verse:

Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Rom 2:2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

It seems to me that these last verses speak to the person who has some of the above listed sins in his or her life and yet speaks about the wrong of the sin he or she is in or another sin that is in the list. But, why stop reading the Word now, because it goes on. To keep from copying the whole text to Romans 3:23 I will select scriptures.

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

Rom 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

Rom 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

Rom 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law,
through breaking the law dishonorest thou God?

This next verse is especially significant when considering this subject or any other specific sin. If you consider the first three chapters of Romans as a unit instead of picking out the homosexual sin, you get a different understanding than the person who rails on the sin of homosexuality and not other sins that are common.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:

Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Don't you just love these next verses. Don't forget to read verse 27 because this verse has to do with the first three chapters of Romans. I have a bible that the pages have pulled out at Romans chapter three and 1 John 1:6 to 2:2. The verses that follow are good too.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Homosexuality needs to be identified as sin in order for a person to repent, however, it is important to identify these other sins also and by compassion bring people from a place of condemnation and confiction to a place of mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. It is my opinion that unless the messenger can speak a word picture from conviction to mercy and grace, the message is useless.

GaryE

Compton wrote:
If swingers organized themselves and used politics and legislature to gain access into public education and churches under their sexual identity banner, then I believe they would draw similar fire.

I think one could safely say that the "swingers" have organised themselves and used something far more powerful than "politics and legislature" to lobby their agenda. The "lobby group" is called Hollywood, and the means is media, period. Consider the last time that you heard of a movie coming out that didn't have a hint of fornication or adultery in it. I can't think of one, and that's including children's movies.

Our society has been slowly being indoctrinated to accept these sins as the norm, with even many Christians being unable to work out where to draw the line in the sand. If we boil it down to raw idealism, even a family outing to the beach is an abomination, but how do you explain that to the woman who wouldn't consider commiting adultery and objects to men's lustfulness, but desires a sun tan, and to enjoy the beach, which is God's creation?

We can get all dogmatic about it, but where does it end, do we require everyone to walk around in a burka so as to avoid being carried away by lust, as result of making eye contact with an attractive pair of eyes? Meanwhile, Hollywood would have every right to laugh at us, knowing that they have fuelled this problem, by getting every teenage boy to lust after the latest starlet, while at the same time pating him on the back for being a "red blooded male".

I remember when I first became a Christian, and heard that statistically few teenagers had lost their virginity, and that generally their talk was bigger than reality, with them being more likely to boast of exaggerated conquests, than to put legs on their lust. Now, promoscuity is rampant, with many actually following through.

Few people realise that when the likes of Hugh Hefner and Larry Flynt set out to turn the world upside down with their pornographic magazines, that their goal was to liberate the world from, what they understood to be a mere "cultural taboo" that limited people from doing what they wanted to do, which was be promiscuous. In their eyes, they were bringing liberty to the western world, who were all bound up in the monogamous understanding of relationships. Just as we Christians seek to help the world realise the bondage that they are in as a result of their embracing of sin, and rejecting God, using whatever means necessary, they too saw their "crusade" as an urgent one, and pursued it with such ferverance that would put many Christians to shame.

Yes, the Gay lobby is a militant group that represents a minority, but once so to was the "free love" movement. Now days it is to go heavily against the grain of the world to even blush at some of the horrendous things that are portrayed as normal.

Murray has raised such an important issue, however I hope that we learn from history, and not ignore the Homosexual Agenda, as it becomes more and more accepted. If necessary, we must fight on many fronts, so to speak, by holding up the holiness and righteousness of God, so that the sinfulness of the world can once again appear sinful. The Adultery and Fornication agendas have come to the point where they are self replicating. No one needs to "go up the hill", so to speak, because everyone is bringing their diluted morality into the polling booth. Homosexuality hasn't quite reached this point yet, however, if things continue the way it has been going, it won't be long.

God help us to fight Your fight, as we raise Your standard and echo Your Spirit's convicting the world of sin, righteousness and judgement, that they may receive godly sorrow and repent that the times of refreshing may come as they put their trust in You. However, as You did in days of old, begin in Your sanctuary, that Your righteousness may be displayed on the earth once again.