Really I don't want to discuss faith itself.
I have a simple question about Paul's thesis in Romans. I also have an answer. But, what do you all read there........?
Is 'the faith of Abraham' [i]and New Testament believers[b]faith in God's existence[b]faith in God's word
Or, do you have some other interpretation?
dorcas wrote:
Is 'the faith of Abraham'[i]and New Testament believers[/i] , simply[b]faith in God's existence[/b] , or, is it specifically[b]faith in God's word[/b] , (God's existence being taken as indubitable)?Or, do you have some other interpretation?
It's not faith in God's existence, but in His word[b]Psalm 138:2
Sis asked...
Is 'the faith of Abraham' and New Testament believers, simply faith in God's existence, or, is it specifically faith in God's word, (God's existence being taken as indubitable)?
1. When He speaks, do you listen and obey?
2. What outcome do you observe from obedience?
3. What conclusions can you make based on the outcome?
This is the walk or ancient path...
In Christ
Jeff
Deu 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end [shall be]: for they [are] a very froward generation, children in whom [is] no faith.
Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by His faith.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
What Faith came? The Law shut all up unto this faith.
Galatians 3:25-27 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
How could anybody have faith in something that had not come yet.
The Holy Spirit had not come as He did at Pentecost with The Faith. Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
His Fruit is Faith. If Faith is of Jesus Christ, then it has to be this Faith that saves by Grace through this Faith that only is available in Christ Jesus.
How is a man or woman justified? By the Christ that God has made unto us righteousness. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Only Justification can make righteous a sinner. Christ has been made our righteousness by God the Father.
Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Christ in us is the only righteousness be can be approved unto salvation by His Faith that Came with Him unto those that would believe that He is the Son of the Living God.
1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
As Christ is in the World in believers so are we as Christ in the World, by His Faith and Righteousness through Grace by the Father.
1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He is, so are we in this world.
In this world who are we as? As He is. As His Faith, as His righteousness, being justified by His Faith, unto redemption and sanctification, through His Wisdom through the Faith that the Holy Spirit gives from the Fruit He can only give.
In Christ: Phillip
Hi Phillip,
I agree that in our time, Jesus Christ is the author of our faith, but Romans 4 describes a righteousness by faith which God ascribed to Abraham.... which also amounts to [i]faith in His word
Tyndale's rendering:
from the modern-spelling edition by David Daniell, 1989.
What shall we say then, that Abraham our father as pertaining to the flesh, did find? If Abraham were justified by deeds, then hath he wherein to rejoice: but not with God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. To him that worketh, is the reward not reckoned of favour: but of duty. To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungoldly, is his faith counted for righteousness. Even as David describeth the blessedfulness of the man unto whom God ascribeth righteousness without deeds. Blessed are they, whose unrighteousnesses are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is that man to whom the Lord imputeth not sin.
Came this blessednesss then upon the circumcised or upon the uncircumcised? We say verily how that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it reckoned? In the time of circumcision? Or in the time before he was circumcised? Not in the time of circumcision: but when he was yet uncircumcised. And he received the sign of circumcision, as a seal of the righteousness which is by faith, which faith he had yet being uncircumcised: that he should be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also: and that he might be the father of the circumcised, not because they are circumcised only: but because they walk also in the steps of that faith that was in our father Abraham before the time of circumcision.
For the promise that he should be heir of the world, was not given to Abraham or to his seed through the law: but through the righteousness which cometh of faith. For if they which are of the law, be heirs, then is faith but vain and the promise of none effect. Because the law causeth wrath. For where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore by faith is the inheritance given, that it might come of favour: and the promise might be sure to all the seed. Not to them only which are of the law: but also to them which are of the faith of Abraham, which is the father of us all. As it is written: I have made thee a father to many nations, even before God whom thou hast believed, which quickeneth the dead, and called those things which be not, as though they were.
Which Abraham, contrary to hope, believed in hope, that he should be the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken: So shall thy seed be. And he fainted not in the faith, nor yet considered his own body which was now dead, even when he was almost an hundred year old: neither yet that Sara was past childbearing. He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief: but was made strong in the faith, and gave honour to God, full certified, that what he had promised that he was able to make good. And therefore was it reckoned to him for righteousness.
Hebrews 11 (NKJV)
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, [b]obeyed
9 By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise;
10 for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
Here, Jesus Himself affirms that Abraham is alive.
Mark 12 (KJV)
26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I [am] [b]the God of Abraham
27 [b]He is[b]the God of the living
John 8:56 (KJV)
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.
rookie asked
1. When He speaks, do you listen and obey?
Answer: I believe so.... that is, when I hear Him. I have stopped trying to work out where my obedience will lead. I trust it is His best plan for me which will be worked out, as I live through the effects of my obedience.
2. What outcome do you observe from obedience?
Answer: Frankly, it's a mixed bag. One has to exercise faith and trust that one's roots in Him are being deepened, even when there is nothing exciting to show for that last step of faith one took. Only a sense of knowing all is well... sometimes not even that. And, even when there is a negative check in my spirit (which I obey), I accept it pretty much as if this is what I needed to know.... Thank you, Lord.
3. What conclusions can you make based on the outcome?
Answer: So far so good? 8-)
Hi Linn,
I have a question, why is it that most people when it concerns faith, go to Abraham instead of the Faith of Christ? If I had The God of the Universe come to me and speak to me clearly and direct me to do exactly what He wanted me to do, I would believe also. So then why did Abraham not become Jesus Christ If he was so exalted in faith, that was counted to him as righteousness. Abraham only had counted righteousness, not birthed in the believer the righteousness of Christ. Made in us not counted. 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. Not in Abraham.
I see a different faith in Christ Jesus, I see the Faith of the Father Himself in Christ Jesus, this is a faith that I believe Abraham did not have. If it was the Faith of God that gave Jesus Christ in the Garden a picture of what He would have to endure to obey His Father and make good for all time The Faith of, "not my will but Yours be done," the Faith that I believe our new birth and becoming a new creature "in" Christ Jesus is given to the new birthed son's of God.
If I just had the faith of Abraham, not counted to me as faith by God, I would be of all men most lost. I believe that the Faith of Jesus Christ has been instilled in me by the birth of Jesus Christ, the Perfect Seed of God, that makes a new creature, not a copy of Abraham because of counted faith but an imputed faith by our new nature. Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Only the nature of Christ can do the things of the law unto righteousness by His Faith. That Faith being born again in us makes the faith of Abraham counted, not the Faith by nature, which Only Christ Has, and has given the born again in Christ Jesus by the Perfect Seed of God, Jesus Christ in us the Hope of Glory, a new and more perfect Faith than that of, "counted faith" of Abraham.
I would much rather have the Faith of Christ than the counted faith of Abraham, then by birth, my Faith is His Faith.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
What makes us justified unto the righteousness of God? It is Christ in us, not the faith of Abraham. I am sure Abraham will say the same thing when we see him in The Kingdom of Christ on this earth in the millennium. My old faith did nothing for me except condemn me to hell. My new Faith in Christ has made me a son of God and by His Faith I can see and understand the thing of the Kingdom of God, and will be learning these things for all eternity.
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
In Christ: Phillip
Hi Phillip,
I do think there are different kinds of faith.
But, I think when Paul's thesis is that the faith of Abraham makes Christ available to both Jew and Gentile, the faith of Abraham, as much more than a symbolic faith - as a real and living faith in the word God spoke to him - is understood, and its relevance to preaching the gospel can be accepted.
I agree we are saved by the faith of Jesus Christ - and so is Abraham.
I think it is slightly unfair to compare 'the faith of Jesus Christ' with 'the faith of Abraham', as these are addressing different issues.
Really, that wasn't my point, and I don't think it was Paul's - which is why I quoted him.
My reason for quoting Romans in such length, is I thought it helps to show the [i]similarity
Isn't it just that simple?
Everyone needs a living relationship with the Father, such as both Abraham and Jesus had, and as God counted it righteousness to both of them.
The word of God is not divided in a way that will lead those who hear it and obey to different parts of God. Faith leads one to our Mediator....
Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
God Bless Sis...
In Christ
Jeff
rookie said
Amen. I love that first chapter of Colossians, because we 'hear' the Father giving 'pre-eminence' to the Son.The word of God is not divided in a way that will lead those who hear it and obey to different parts of God. Faith leads one to our Mediator....
This is a complementary counterbalance to John 10:29, 30 -
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
I said
Phillip, I think I should clarify this.I do think there are different kinds of faith.
Faith is of God. We can work this out from the regular frustration which Jesus felt at the lack of faith He encountered - which is the normal human state of unbelief. This is why 'faith comes by hearing the word of God'. [i]Until
BUT, 'the word of faith is nigh thee, even in thy mouth' (Romans 10), which is a quote from Deuteronomy. This is the wonder of prophecy..... that man can hear from God, and as he delivers the word of God [i][b]by mouth[i][b]trust
How does a person 'know' that what they have heard is real?
John says 'He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.' (1 John 5:10)
This is strong stuff, but, it ties in completely with John 16:9
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 [b]Of sin, because they believe not on me
and with
Luke 3:22
And [b]the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him[b]Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased
In other words, God places the responsibility on each person individually, to exercise their own judgment [i][b]and act on it
This is common denominator in 'faith'..... whether it is the first time you exercised it, or the last. Whether it led you into a second conversation with a believer, or a visit to church for the first time, or actively to put your life into the hands of Jesus Christ*, or, to take one more step, walking in the Spirit in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
* some people would call this 'saving faith'.
Faith in God is the same as knowing that the chair that you sit on will hold you.
Therefore, if our faith in God comes from God, then the faith in the chair to hold you comes from the chair.
This is obviously ridiculous.
Therefore, our faith comes from with in us.
Faith is faith; we have faith in God that HE will honor His Word and give us eternal life.
Faith in God
Faith in chair
trust in God to save you
trust in chair to hold you
My point with all this is that your faith does not come from God as people seem to think,
If not, then the above statement is true, the faith in a chair comes from the chair and not you.
Moreover, God will condemn one who has no faith in Him. How could God justly condemn one who He has not given the thing He requirers of.
This would be against His nature.
Furthermore, if faith is given to one to be save, then one goes to hell for not being able to use what he hasn't been given.
This would be unjust.
All men have faith inherently, it is a concept of the character and will which involves reason and moral rectitude.
[i]Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness
I have a question, why is it that most people when it concerns faith, go to Abraham instead of the Faith of Christ?
Two words stand out; "Believed" and "accounted", if anything it seems it is descriptive that Paul is after. I too struggled with this a bit hearing it put similarly in this fashion, as 'going to Abraham' rather than to Christ, but I believe it is complimentary not an either\\or, it's a blurred distinction.
Consider;
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Was blessed today to listen to an old Tozer series on 1 Peter and at one point he was making particular emphasis on, without directly stating it, just how time-bound we creatures are.
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Taking this with a careful look at John 8 above seems to reconcile this a great deal. It's the 'same' faith if you can look at it this way. The accounting is from Gods end. In fact, John 8:56 is really quite staggering to just dwell on, all on it's own.
I can believe a chair is a chair and it will hold me if I sit on it, but the chair cannot save me by that faith. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, His Faith saved me.
We are not saved by faith. We are saved by Grace through Faith which is a gift. All I can do is believe.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
John 3:15-19 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
All man's deeds are evil, that includes our faith.
All we can do is believe God and it is His Faith that saves us.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
That includes the Faith of the Son of God unto the Law of Love in Christ Jesus. In Salvation's Birthing by the Seed of the Father we now have the Nature of God in us, that is Jesus Christ the Son.
This verse is undeniable and cannot be discarded.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
This one either: Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
By our New Creature Nature, that is son's of God with the Spirit of Christ in us, we now live by the Faith of the Son of God in this new life we live in the Flesh.
The chair and Christ are a perfect picture of what faith in a chair and the Faith of the Son of God will do in the believer in working out his salvation with fear and trembling.
These are the only two places in the old testament that faith is mentioned. Deu 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end [shall be]: for they [are] a very froward generation, children in whom [is] no faith.
Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
One says there is no saving faith, the other says the Just shall live by His Faith, that is Jesus Christ.
Praise God the Faith of the Son of God came. This is just a small sample of the Faith of the Son of God in us, by which we are saved.
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Check out the Faith of the Son of God.
In the Faith of Christ: Phillip
Christinyou wrote:
I can believe a chair is a chair and it will hold me if I sit on it, but the chair cannot save me by that faith. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, His Faith saved me.
We are not saved by faith. We are saved by Grace through Faith which is a gift. All I can do is believe.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
It isn't like there are difrent [b]kinds
It is the same kind of faith you have in Jesus as that you have in the chair.
The only thing that is difrent is what you have faith in Jesus or the chair to do.
I don't like the term "saving faith".
Muslums have "saving faith in ala, Mormans have saving faith in there god.
The only "saving faith" is, is the faith that is [b]directed
I will concied that Jesus gives us faith as he gives us life, but it is not some special gift as only Christians have.
It is given as inherant as our breath or even our body. Faith is esential part of life for all mankind.
Not only for salvation.
All man's deeds are evil, that includes our faith.
Brother Phillip wrote:
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, His Faith saved me.
How does His faith become your faith?
All man's deeds are evil, that includes our faith.
This conclusion is not based on Scripture...
In Christ
Jeff
Logic said
Really, I don't think so.Faith in God is the same as knowing that the chair that you sit on will hold you.
That's because you can't have faith in God unless He has spoken to you. This much is clear from Paul's thesis in the middle of Romans 10.
Do you disagree with him?
You don't believe the chair will hold you because it says so. You believe it because it is illegal to sell chairs which are not fit for the purpose for which they were designed, and that means that the owner of a chair knows whether it is in good condition or not, and providers of chairs have a legal responsibility to have public liability insurance against the possibility of a chair failing when a member of the public uses a chair which is not regularly used by the overseer of the building in which the chair is situated.
A better example of something less dependent on man, would be that we believe the floor or the ground will continue to hold us. This is a better example, because the likelihood of the power of gravity failing suddenly, is far more remote. However, neither the floor nor the ground talk to us about how dependable they are.
The big difference when God speaks, is His eternal reality. People who have never believed in God, can hear Him speak to their hearts, and KNOW He is there, and they can completely change their minds on the basis of this encounter.
Of course, you will notice in Romans 10 when you read it, that the wrath of God is to fall on those who did not obey the gospel. That is not God's meanness, that is unbelief on the part of people who HAVE heard Him speak. See Exodus 20:19..... same story.... only this is their [i]last
However, neither the floor nor the ground talk to us about how dependable they are.
[b]The big difference when God speaks, is His eternal reality.[/b] People who have never believed in God, can hear Him speak to their hearts, and KNOW He is there, and they can completely change their minds on the basis of this encounter.Of course, you will notice in Romans 10 when you read it, that the wrath of God is to fall on those who did not obey the gospel. That is not God's meanness, that is unbelief on the part of people who HAVE heard Him speak. See Exodus 20:19..... same story.... only this is their last chance.
appreciate this, Dorcas
praise the Lord Jesus Christ
Saving faith to Moslems is only saving faith to Islam.
Saving faith to Christians is the saving faith of Jesus Christ unto salvation because we believe that the Father said, Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God. The Faith of the Son of God sent by The Father, given by the Holy Spirit the power to believe the need for a Savior.
1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Man's own faith cannot say Jesus Christ is the Lord. Only the Holy Spirit can give that faith.
We can believe the name Jesus Christ, by our own faith, but cannot call Him Lord except by His Faith through the Holy Spirit. Even Moslems say He was a good man and prophet, and devils also say who He is but won't call Him Lord. It takes the Faith of Christ Himself in a believer to make this truth manifest in the believer, Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Lord of All.
Ephesians 3:9-12 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of Him.
Even principalities and powers in heavenly places did not know what God's purpose in Christ Jesus our Lord was to be. But by the Faith of Him we have confidence what God's eternal purpose was in Christ Jesus our Lord. That is;
Ephesians 3:17-21 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
He just said in verse 12 that the faith of Christ is the faith dwelling in our hearts that we can comprehend with all the saints that we are filled with all the fullness of God. That is Christ Jesus in you by His Glory not ours.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Our Justification is by the Faith of Jesus Christ. Our Justification makes us righteous before God by Christ Jesus in us. We live a new life in Christ Jesus and the Life we now live we live by the Faith of Jesus Christ. Not our faith in Jesus Christ. The Faith of Jesus Christ is the only Faith that can make us Faithful in Christ and give us our faith in Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
Who's work is it that make us perfect in Christ? It is His working that we are striving in that gives us His Wisdom and all else pertaining to salvation including the Faith of the Son of God that we now live our lives by.
In Christ: Phillip
Really, I don't think so.
dorcas wrote:
Logic saidFaith in God is the same as knowing that the chair that you sit on will hold you.
That's because you can't have faith in God unless He has spoken to you. This much is clear from Paul's thesis in the middle of Romans 10.
That is my point also, notice I said [b]know
The same as when He speeks to you, you will [b]know
It doesn't matter if the chair don't speek and God does, it is about the [b]knowlege[u]fact[b]knowlege
Faith is the acceptance of truth which we must know.
You don't believe the chair will hold you because it says so.
I will pose a question:
Would you rather have all the faith in the world that 1/2 an inch of ice will hold you when you walk on it?
Or
No faith at all that 3ft. of ice will not hold you and walk on it?
Christinyou wrote:
Saving faith to Moslems is only saving faith to Islam.
Even Moslems say He was a good man and prophet, and devils also say who He is but won't call Him Lord.
He just said in Ephesians 3:21 that the faith of Christ is the faith dwelling in our hearts
[b]Galatians 2:16[b]in[b]in
In greek there is no preposition between the words "faith" and "christ", there fore, the best preposition to use is "in" not "of" because of pertains to ownership and Christ has no faith.
therefore Our Justification is by the Faith [b]in
Who's work is it that make us perfect in Christ? It is His working that we are striving in that gives us His Wisdom and all else pertaining to salvation including the Faith of the Son of God that we now live our lives by.
Phillip,Saving faith to Moslems is only saving faith to Islam
I would not call the faith that Moslems have 'saving faith', because it doesn't save them from anything, but I see what you are getting at. However, I would encourage you to put it to Moslems that the faith they have is a very shakey hope, rather than a belief in THE living God, or a relationship with HIM through which they know their sins are forgiven. My understanding of Islam is that all the judging is done after death... whereas, the repentant sinner has accepted the judgement of God NOW upon their sin, thus enabling them to ESCAPE spiritual death FOR EVER. This IS good news! :-D
To me, that is the whole point of the gospel.... that believing it IS '[b]saving
This discussion is locked.
