The "Sinner's Prayer" ala Jonathan Edwards (must read)

Dear Saints,

The letter below is an attempt by Dr. John Gerstner, a noted Edwardian scholar, to set forth what Jonathan Edwards would have counseled a seeker to actually pray based on his own ideas. As you will notice, this prayer would be considered anti-evangelistic in contemporary circles. The church today repudiates such thoughts and would be abhorred to see it in print in any form. Contemporary ministers would never counsel someone to pray a prayer as this. But in light of the survey of Puritan teaching, up and through Edwards, this is surely what the Puritans did say, did counsel and did preach from their pulpits. The doctrine of seeking is essentially gone from 21st century Christendom, but it needs to be revived. Here we see the outworking of such a doctrine practically. After reading this prayer, ask yourself: “Does this shock me?”

[b]The Seeker's Prayer[/b]

"Dear God, whom I hate with all my being precisely because you hate and threaten me with hell, I hate this punishment perhaps even more than I hate you. Or, maybe I should say that I love my comfort even more than I hate you. For that reason I am asking a favor of you. I want you to make me love you, whom I hate even when I ask this and even more because I have to ask this. I am being frank with you because I know it is no use to be otherwise. You know even better than I how much I hate you and that I love only myself. It is no use for me to pretend to be sincere. I most certainly do not love you and do not want to love you. I hate the thought of loving you but that is what I'm asking because I love myself. If you can answer this 'prayer' I guess the gift of gratitude will come with it and then I will be able to do what I would not think of doing now: thank you for making me love you whom I hate. Amen."

Unbelievable! I can't ever remember hearing about this, ever.

It seems blasphemous, but when you read it you remember that you were an enemy of the cross, and that you either love or hate God.

Truth can be so painful, and this is both.

This is a new teaching for me, even though it is definately old.

Will take time to sink in. A very long time.

God bless.

The doctrine of seeking is essentially gone from 21st century Christendom, but it needs to be revived.

This is remarkable for it's sheer shorning of pretense ... Can you hear it? "Repeat after me..."

Hi Paul,

After reading this prayer, ask yourself “Does this shock you?”

Only because it conveys a truth in a way that God would [i]never[/i] do. Though I would agree with much of the truth in the prayer I am certain God would never use such a means to reach a sinner. I am reminded illustrative story of the man whose dog starved to death because when it was time for the dog to eat the man shouted at the top of his lungs and in a most hateful manor, "GET IN HERE AND EAT DOG!! YOUR FOOD IS IN THE DISH!" The dog always went and hid himself and starved to death.

Jesus never told anyone directly that He hated them. He said in one place, [i]But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.[/i] He went out of His way to tell us to bless them that curse us and love our enemies. The 'spirit' of the prayer is not far from the disciples wanting to call down fire from heaven... [i]But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.[/i] (Luke 9:55)

Imagine in a practical sense walking up to a woman you were going to court and saying, "YOU HATE ME! YOU HATE ME DON"T YOU!" I'm married now, and I'm sure this tactic would have done nothing but drive my wife away.

Finney has an excellent sermon in which he talks about the instability of sinners. He reminds us that sinners do hate God whether they know it or not and they are quick to turn on themselves to their own destruction in hardening themselves against God. therefor, he concludes, "He that winneth souls is wise." A familar Proverb, but a powerful one. Dealing with a sinner is like trying to talk down a person who is suicidal. You have to be CAREFUL what you say. I'm pretty sure the prayer is likely meant for illustrative purposes, but we need [u]not[/u] take truthes we know about sinners and rub their noses in them. (ed) Because it would certainly anger them and anger is your enemy in winning souls.

Finney:

[i]If possible, where you wish to converse with a man on the subject of salvation, take him when he is in a good temper. If you find him out of humor, very probably he will get angry and abuse you. Better let him alone for that time, or you will be likely to quench the Spirit. It is possible you may be able to talk in such a way as to cool his temper, but it is not likely. The truth is, men hate God, and though their hatred may be dormant, it is easily excited, and if you bring God fully before their minds when they are already excited with anger, it will be so much the easier to arouse their enmity to open violence.[/i]

God Bless,

-Robert

I hear you Robert, but notice not once in this prayer do you read "God, I know you hate me. I know you hate me. Therefore I am praying this prayer, because I know you hate me." You see, instead, the immortal truth that the sinner hates God and will not come into light. You'll have to produce some hefty scriptural evidence to proport a contrary view, as well as evidence that Jesus, when he preached, never implied it. Edwards was not a hate preacher, nor do I see in this prayer a perversion of God's grace. This is a "seeker's" prayer, built upon the type of theology, when illuminated by the Holy Spirit, which has fostered earth-quaking revival in the past. Why doen't the Holy spirit prick hearts today in such ways with our "please eat this good food, O my precious dog" theology? Not meant to stir contention with you, but post a challenge back at you.

God bless you brother!

This is a "seeker's" prayer, and the type of theology, when illuminated by the Holy Spirit, fosters true revival.

I understand. There is no doubt that sinners hate God. Yet the underlying spirit of it all is one of contempt and disdain and I see it and wreaks with the wrath of man in speaking on behalf of God. This is perhaps the greatest challenge of repentence preachers- to preach pure wheat without the chaff of their own anger and resentment. Man always wants to add his 2 cents into things and we have to be very careful. Rejection fosters resentment and the tendency is to step up the rhetoric. this is what Luther did when the Jews would not listen.

God Bless,

-Robert

Paul, I love the prayer… no, I mean I hate it… no, really I love it…..

As I pray the words, it rings true. It sweeps away the surface stuff, and exposes the root. I feel it gripping at the core of my heart, underneath all the layers and layers of “fig leaves” – all that with which I cover myself so that I can hide my hatred towards God. Underneath it all, I can see that really, I don’t want God nearly as much as I think I do.

Hate is a strong word, but in the light of God’s requirements, it is most appropriate.

I am reminded of the verse, “Unless you hate your mother, father…. “ I think that hate here is not so much about loathing, as it is about preference. We must hate all that is in the world, even our loved ones, in order to love God purely. In other words: We must not prefer anything or anyone more than God. To the extent that God is not our first love, we hate him. We want something else – maybe his blessings, but not him, maybe even revival.. but not him (!) We hate God!

I admit, underneath my passion for the righteous life is another inner force at work: I crave much more than God himself. I do not love him with ALL my heart, ALL my soul, ALL my mind, ALL my strength. I know it. And I know it because God keeps in exposing my rival loves –like he did with Abraham when he asked him to sacrifice his son.

Those times that I get angry when my rival loves are ripped away from me, really I am angry with God for not letting me keep me what I want. I stomp like a spoilt child. “God, How dare you! Why did you let that happen!!”

I think I will put this prayer on my desktop and pray it every day! There is something intensely purging about it. I believe that this degree of raw honesty is the path to true intimacy with God.

By the way, this same idea, of hating God, is well-articulated by a modern day writer, Dan Allender, in his book, ‘Bold Love’. Perhaps, later, I may submit a quote from that.

(Just a personal opinion, Paul: I might have entitled this post: “Getting our hatred out of the closet”).

Diane

Dear Robert,

With deep love, may I propose that you have witnessed some terrible experiences with men who have abused this type of teaching? I have assumed that Edwards, when counselling such, would be filled with the Spirit and these true words would go out with illumination and accomplish God's pupose by pricking consciences without anger or ill-spirited contention or lack of charity or perverted, unchristlike motives. I believe these men's hearts were right with God when they put forth this type of theology, and that's why it was driven home so profoundly. I truly feel there is nothing extra-biblical about this "prayer" except were it prayed in a wrong spirit!

Brother Paul

Man always wants to add his 2 cents into things and we have to be very careful.

Good point Robert. Recall something you made mention of quite some time back ... Amounted to "A word in due season", knowing when and where to bring what is necessary for the moment. Would think this would be similar, depending on the person, circumstances ... 'audience' if you will.

Even my own day of reckoning had it's battle of "Yes\
o"; "Yes, I desire to know You, to give up everything ... No, I still love my sin". The epitome of a definition ... "I am not ready... yet". "I repent" "I am a liar" "I love You" "I ...;

Joh 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

Hi Paul,

I truly feel there is nothing extra-biblical about this "prayer" except were it prayed in a wrong spirit!

Yes. I have enjoyed Edwards writings also and am sure he would never have anyone repeat this prayer. I don't discount the whole truth of it, I am just trying to say the there is a point when sinners are asked to do well beyong what God has revealed in scripture. There may be young preachers that would take up this prayer and use it in the open air.

I have read it through several times now and have even read it to a brother who is steeped in scripture. No person in their right mind would talk to God like that (in our opinion). Could you say this to God face to face? "Dear God whom I hate with all my being because you hate and threaten me with hell, I hate this punishment even more than I hate you?" Actually, the brother said 'blasphemy' but that was a bit stronger than I would go. He felt it wreaked of arrogance towards God- as a sinner would not so brazenly speak to God in this way.

The way we come to love God is through the revelation of His goodness and mercy. This is why we offer our lives. It is the 'reasonable service' of Romans 12:1. I just think we need to be careful about this. It's OK for us to appreciate the truth of how we are before God, but I think we need to be careful how we bring it out. I could not imagine praying a prayer like this personally. It is entirely too strong. In that I mean it has be distilled from many truths that when removed from their context make for a very caustic prayer.

God Bless,

-Robert

Having pondered this prayer, where in scripture has anyone ever prayed it?

I can't think of one instance in the bible where someone, in prayer, says they hate God, especially when repenting?

The publican/tax collector prayed 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner', an admission of his own condition before God.

Whether it is Jonathan Edwards or whoever, they are not above scripture.

Just would like some scriptual reference to this assumption.

Yes, the sinner hates God.

Jesus says, if you love Me, keep My commandments.
Again He says, in John 15v23, He who hates Me hates My Father also.

I'll accept that, but I need to know where it says we are to tell God we hate Him.

Thanks.

God bless.

Dear God, whom I hate with all my being precisely because you hate and threaten me with hell, I hate this punishment perhaps even more than I hate you.

Perhaps this line is the most difficult. But, as I think of it, I suspect that we argue with God's justice without realizing it. Maybe organized religion flourishes for just that purpose: to defy God's justice by creating a path that dulls the hatred, and sets up it's own righteousness.

I know that I sometimes find myself at odds with God on this point - hell is so extreme! - and so many are headed in the direction - blinded, lost.... . And it seems that God isn't doing anything about it. Grrrrrar...

Diane

Yes, this shocks me. This is the doctrine of total depravity run amok.

The writer claims Edwards would have counseled someone to pray this way. Edwards was a prolific writer, is there anything at all that he wrote that is anything like this?

In Christ,

Ron

Perhaps if it were rephrased something like this.
Oh God whom I hate because I want to be my own ruler, and god. Yet Thou in mercy have shown me the wickedness of my ways, and the justice of the hell I am headed to. Would you in mercy and because of Christ apply His blood to my sin, pardon the crimes I have committed against Thee and Thee alone. May I receive Thy Spirit of adoption that I would no longer be a child of Satan, and self, and a friend of the world. But rather now by grace a child of the very God I have offended time without end. Take this mind, soul, and spirit which I have robbed you of all my days apart from Thee. I lay down my desire to be my own god, and surrender to Thy ways, and Thy will.

Hi RoaringLamb,

Perhaps if it were rephrased something like this.

I'm not one for repeated prayers, but I think I can handle this one. :-)

I agree with you. A man that has a real encounter with Christ may be without words for a moment, but he definately won't have to be told what to say.
I just wanted to bring a different slant to the discussion ;-)

Some of this brought to mind;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8555&forum=35#68997]Last Words of Famous People[/url]

Wow! A lot of great responses!

I guess this went over everyone's head, including my own!

It wasn't until I got home from work today that I saw how this "prayer" lays bare the true state of unrepentant man in his phoney quest for God. In fact, this prayer is quite fascinating, if you take the time to read it carefully and ponder on what is implied; it is the subconscious breathings of truth by someone who is seeking God for the wrong motives, someone whose heart has yet to be "pricked". It is sarcastically profound! Of course, I could never see myself offering a prayer like this to an unbeliever (nor imagine Edwards counseling someone with these exact words), for the prayer is merely satirical. But the accusation of blasphemy has come up from someone who is steeped in scripture. So, let's take a look at a few sections of this "shocking" prayer and see how blasphemous it really is:

In this prayer, I see the inner principles of the unrepentant sinner (for notice that 'sin' is not at all mentioned, nor forgiveness, nor repentance) seeking God to avoid hell. In the prayer, a voice is given to the natural state of wicked man importuning the God he hates. This prayer was never meant to be spoken verbatim, nor could it be. It is merely a conveyance of the [i]de facto[/i] state of the sinner, written out ala Edwardian theology. In it, the inner truths of the state of the sinner are spoken as if directly to God. This is merely the essence of man's unredeemed being speaking the uncloaked truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to God, and laying it all bare, as it were.

Now, is it blasphemous that men in spiritual darkness hate the light of Christ, loathe the thought of coming to God to ask forgiveness (which, by the way, is never an issue in this prayer), and that this sinner, if he could, is merely exposing his true affections to God by means of honest confession? Separated and blinded from the truth of God by sin, and threatened with the eternal punishment of hell, sinners cannot truly know God, and so they abhor what they think they know, for if they truly knew God they would love Him. It is only through selfish motives that a false seeker would be justified by the words of this Edwardian "exposure". In fact, Charles Finney has written extensively on this topic, and has gone into some very deep waters in his amazing reasoning. Comparatively, this mock "prayer" only scratches the surface on the motives, intentions, and inner workings of man in this condition. At the same time, this prayer is astonishingly knowledgeable (with more knowledge than unregenerate man could ever have) in the admission that even the ability to love God must come from God.

I want you to make me love you, whom I hate.

I want you to make me love you? This, to me, is unrepentant man wanting God to "make him love" so as to escape judgment. I know from experience that the notion is quite feasible (nay, delightful) in man's mind to "love" God without admitting guilt and abandoning sin. False converts harboring unquickened spirits tread this roadway. Throughout this entire prayer, notice there is not one account of sorrow over sin. There is no trace of an "awakened" heart. Just a cold request. Indeed, when a spirit truly comes under Holy Ghost conviction and is quickened into the New Birth, all the needed prayer and words and tears and brokeness just come and flow naturally from the deep unto the Deep.

It is no use for me to pretend to be sincere.

He even admits that he is not sincere! Friends, this is an ingenious satrical prayer! Can't you see it? It is 100% biblical, yet 100% fake. It discloses the true state of selfish, sinful man, blinded by self-righteousness yet unwilling to suffer enternal damnation. So, he begrudgingly appeals to the Judge without a guilty plea. Does this process sound familiar? It should, because every Sunday throughout America truckloads of unquickened, false-seeking men and women are verbalizing words that are clashing with the hidden, non-verbal truth of their actual state of being.

I really hope no one took this prayer as an actual model for honest conviction. However, I don't believe this exposure is blasphemous, unbiblical or unreasonable. Rather, I see these truths squelched when multitudes today seek God for selfish purposes.

Any thoughts? :-)

Brother Paul

This prayer was never meant to be spoken verbatim, nor could it be.

Think that was the first intimation I picked up on as well brother.

In it, the inner truths of the state of the sinner are spoken [b]as if[/b] directly to God.

Regret the mention of the "repeat after me" statement earlier, not at all fond of either the normal 'leading someone in the sinner's prayer' even if it was couched this way, same as Robert made mention of. Had first thought of the 'famous last word's' in relation to the almost defiant to the end mentality that are mentioned within ...

Maybe all I am trying to say is that it struck me as the reasoning process inside one's head, of one coming to grips with his or her own thought's and being honest about it.

Hi Paul,

But the accusation of blasphemy has come up from someone who is steeped in scripture. So, let's take a look at a few sections of this "shocking" prayer and see how blasphemous it really is:

I think this would be a good discussion as it plumbs the depths of many truths. At the end of the day it is really just a discussion on Total Depravity (As InTheLight mentioned earlier). I wish to first say that the brother who felt the prayer was blasphemous took the prayer as one actually made to God and not as an unconscious feeling. If a person had actually spoken to God in this way it is possible they had blasphemed because of the tone in which God is being addressed. It comes off as very disrespectful. God discerns the thoughts and intents of the hearts, but by our words we shall be justified or condemned. One may believe their neighbor to be a fool, but how dangerous would it be to actually call him one? So in fairness, the response may have been different to say that these were conscious or unconscious and unarticulated feelings and attitudes rather than an actual ‘seekers prayer.’

At the same time, this prayer is astonishingly knowledgeable (with more knowledge than unregenerate man could ever have) in the admission that even the ability to love God must come from God.

I cannot agree with this as it stands because God has commanded men who are unregenerate to love Him. This is probably more due to my position as an Arminian. In both Calvinism and Arminianism there are extremes. If I take Arminianism too far I make man able to do what only God can do- be 100% sinless in his/her unregenerate state (Pelagianism). If I take Calvinism to its final conclusion I make man to be a devil. I can also make a case for it making God to be a devil, as Wesley once said, if some of the tenants are true then God is the father of lies. So, one makes man to be as God and the other makes God and man to be as devils. So there has to be a biblical balance.

Now, is it blasphemous that men in spiritual darkness hate the light of Christ, loathe the thought of coming to God to ask forgiveness (which, by the way, is never an issue in this prayer), and that this sinner, if he could, is merely exposing his true affections to God by means of honest confession?

Not all men hate the light. This saying would not be equally true of all men. There are those who are “haters of God”, but these are those of a reprobate mind. Romans 1 comes to mind:

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (Romans 1)

Notice that this list is radically more extreme than the list of the sins of the flesh that is given in Galatians 5. If the person(s) spoken of in Romans 1 is the person ‘seeking’ (which would likely be impossible if they were actually given over to a reprobate mind; not that they could not respond to God, but the would not) and praying the prayer (or thinking this subconsciously) that would be one thing; but I think it is a category mistake to place all men in this Romans 1 passage.

All men are sinners, but not all the unregenerate refuse to respond rightly to the light. Total depravity asserts that man is totally at enmity with God and totally incapable of doing anything ‘good’. I cannot agree with this. Though ‘the Sin’ has touched the totality of man’s being, is has not depraved him in such a sense that he is a devil or as a reprobate in the Roman’s 1 sense. Man’s thoughts and imaginations are not [u]only[/u] evil continually as those who had fallen before the flood. If it were so none would be saved today. I think it is important also to see that there are varying degrees of ‘enmity’ with God. David was a man after God’s own heart. Abel by faith offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain. If all men’s enmity with God were equal then the story of Cain and Abel has no meaning nor do the Psalms.

Enough for now…

God Bless,

-Robert