Faith

As a new believer, and for the first three years of my life as a Christian, I struggled with the notion of faith. Those around me could not explain to me what faith was. I remember one pastor at a conference I attended, describe saving faith as a belief which overcomes our fears. He said saving faith might be illustrated like this: "I am fearful of heights. God asks me to enter a 20 story building and go up to the top floor. There you will find some men washing windows from a cat walk that is suspended from the roof of the building. God then commands me to step out of the building's window onto the cat walk. I obey. That is an example of saving faith."All around me I found men who struggled to define what saving faith was. Everyone used the word but could not define it. What are your thoughts? Have you experienced the same in your own walk? Do men or women around you struggle with the word "faith?"

I have always defined saving faith as a realization that God is more real than you are, a knowledge that He is always present where you are, and an awareness of Him just as you are aware of your right arm. Even when your eyes are closed, you feel that your right arm is there; even though you cannot see God, you feel that He is there. It also implies a basic understanding of God's personality, of His wishes, of His likes and dislikes. It is not only an awareness of God but also an awareness of His Mind.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. FAITH, n. [L. fides, fido, to trust; Gr. to persuade, to draw towards any thing, to conciliate; to believe, to obey. In the Greek Lexicon of Hederic it is said, the primitive signification of the verb is to bind and draw or lead, as signifies a rope or cable. But this remark is a little incorrect. The sense of the verb, from which that of rope and binding is derived, is to strain, to draw, and thus to bind or make fast. A rope or cable is that which makes fast. Heb.]1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting on his authority and veracity, without other evidence; the judgment that what another states or testifies is the truth. I have strong faith or no faith in the testimony of a witness, or in what a historian narrates.2. The assent of the mind to the truth of a proposition advanced by another; belief, or probable evidence of any kind.3. In theology, the assent of the mind or understanding to the truth of what God has revealed. Simple belief of the scriptures, of the being and perfections of God, and of the existence, character and doctrines of Christ, founded on the testimony of the sacred writers, is called historical or speculative faith; a faith little distinguished from the belief of the existence and achievements of Alexander or of Cesar.4. Evangelical, justifying, or saving faith, is the assent of the mind to the truth of divine revelation, on the authority of God's testimony, accompanied with a cordial assent of the will or approbation of the heart; an entire confidence or trust in God's character and declarations, and in the character and doctrines of Christ, with an unreserved surrender of the will to his guidance, and dependence on his merits for salvation. In other words, that firm belief of God's testimony, and of the truth of the gospel, which influences the will, and leads to an entire reliance on Christ for salvation.Being justified by faith. Rom 5.Without faith it is impossible to please God. Heb 11.For we walk by faith, and not by sight. 2 Cor 5.With the heart man believeth to righteousness. Rom 10.The faith of the gospel is that emotion of the mind, which is called trust or confidence, exercised towards the moral character of God, and particularly of the Savior.Faith is an affectionate practical confidence in the testimony of God.Faith is an affectionate practical confidence in the testimony of God.Faith is a firm, cordial belief in the veracity of God, in all the declarations of his word; or a full and affectionate confidence in the certainty of those things which God has declared, and because he has declared them.5. The object of belief; a doctrine or system of doctrines believed; a system of revealed truths received by christians.They heard only, that he who persecuted us in times past, now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. Gal 1.6. The promises of God, or his truth and faithfulness.shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Rom 3.7. An open profession of gospel truth.Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. Rom 1.8. A persuasion or belief of the lawfulness of things indifferent.Hast thou faith? Have it to thyself before God. Rom 14.9. Faithfulness; fidelity; a strict adherence to duty and fulfillment of promises.Her failing, while her faith to me remains, I would conceal.Children in whom is no faith. Deu 32.10. Word or honor pledged; promise given; fidelity. He violated his plighted faith.For you alone I broke my faith with injured Palamon.11. Sincerity; honesty; veracity; faithfulness. We ought in good faith, to fulfill all our engagements.12. Credibility or truth. Unusual.]The faith of the foregoing narrative.Websters 1828 Dictionary

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17 There are two greek words for "word." Logos implies the written word. Rhema implies the spoken word. In the verse above, the word Rhema is used. So faith come by hearing the spoken word of God. God thoughout Scriptures, speaks in one way or another to those who will hear. He spoke Himself, "In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice." Genesis 22:18 Also, "Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine." Exodus 19:5Also, "Who among you fears the Lord? Who obeys the voice of His Servant? Who walks in darkness and has no light? Let him trust in the name of the Lord and rely upon his God." Is 50:10He speaks through the prophets and angels. He speaks to us through the written word of God. "For the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12. So faith comes from hearing God speak to us. Think about how Joshua was able to please God. Was it not because God spoke to him first. He had a choice to obey or disobey. Look to Abraham. God came and spoke to him through dreams and angels. Look to the OT for God's voice. In Christ Jeff

Look to the OT for God's voice. And the New for the fullness of expression of that voice.Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend (overcome) it." John 1:1-5 In another place, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." John 8:56 I wonder if anyone knew as much as Enoch, Elijah, Ezekiel, Moses, Abraham, or Joshua. And of course the Apostles, especially John.When Paul wrote Romans 10:17, he was refering to the OT saints.In ChristJeff

rookie wrote: "There are two greek words for "word." Logos implies the written word. Rhema implies the spoken word. In the verse above, the word Rhema is used."Reply: Actually Rhema and Logos are interchangeable and are used equally to denote either written or spoken words.

by Husley: Actually Rhema and Logos are interchangeable and are used equally to denote either written of spoken words.I am the least of any in terms of knowledge of language and translating them. With that said, and again with ignorance my companion, I checked the concordance for these two words Rhema and Logos. Neither are used to express the other in definition. Jeremy, when you say that they are interchangeable, can you share with me why they are so?It does not seem that Paul uses these words freely. What is the significance?In ChristJeff

rookie,This was a question that I had brought up to one of the Greek professors at my college. He's the one who first told me that the words were interchangeable. I later asked some of the Biblical language experts on another forum I belong to and they concurred that the two can either mean spoken or written. I don't have all my study tools here with me at home so I'll write what little I know with what I have here.Here's what I found in my Zondervan's Analytical Exhaustive Concordance:Logos: word, spoken or written, often with a focus on the content of a communication; matter, thing. "The Word" is a title of Christ empasizing his own deity and communication of who God is and what he is like.It doesn't give as detailed a definition of rhema. Here's what it says:Rhema: word, saying; matter, thing.Here's a sample of some of the listings of the uses of either Logos and Rhema:John 2:22 Then they believed the Scripture and the word- Logos (written)John 3:34 the one whom God has sent speaks the word- Rhema (spoken)John 15:20 Remember the word I spoke to you- Logos (spoken)2nd Cor 10:10 and his *speaking* amounts to nothing- Logos Rhema is used mainly in reference to speaking. However, Logos appears from what I've seen in my concordance to be used freely either way. This is a very concise sampling of the uses of these two words.Vincent's Word studies in the New Testament says this about Logos in John 1:1The Word (Logos) This expression is the key-note and theme of the entire gospel. Logos' comes from a word (greek symbols used here which I'm unable to type) with the primitive meaning of which is: to lay, then, to pick out, gather, pick up: hence to gather or put words together, and so to speak. Hence logos is, first of all, a collecting or collection of both of things in the mind, and of words by which they are expressed. It therefore signifies both the outward form by which the inward thought is expressed, and the inward thought itself, "to think" and "to speak".He notes John's reference in the opening of his gospel the Genesis ch.1:The word here points directly to Gen.1, where the act of creation is effected by God speaking (compare Psalms 33:6).Rhema appears to be used a lot when the writers are wanting to stress the entirety of the message (gospel):John 17:8 I have given them the words(rhema) that You have given Me.: words here means he has given the whole messageRhema, word, as distinguished from Logos, word, in classical Greek, signifies a constituent part of a speech or writing, as distinguished from the contents as a whole. (in other words logos might point out single words or phrases while rhema referrs to the whole message) The distinction in the New Testament is not sharp throughout. It is maintained that rhema in the NT, like the Hebrew gabar, stands sometimes for the subject-matter of the word. However, Vincent goes on to say that the writers of the NT did not always follow these rules. Which is to be expected since their native tongue was Aramaic and not Greek. It would be the same as someone from Mexico writing a book in English without having mastered the language. The translation would be rough in some places, and this is true also in the NT. While on the surface this might seem embarrasing to the church and was a scource of reviling from critcs of the scriptures in its day, today it only helps to further solidify the authenticity of the scriptures.Edit:To continue what you were saying about Romans however, you are on the right track to what this passage is saying.Romans 10:17 in the NKJV starts of with "So then". This implies that he is summing up what he just said, so the root of this verse can be found in the following verses.14How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!" 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Verse 17 is better translated: "So then, fait comes by the message, and the message by the command of Christ." Rhema here is translated as command.Verse 17 answers the questions posed in verses 14 and 15. (14)How can someone believe? (17)The message of the gospel (15)How can they hear the gospel without someone being sent to them? (17)The messagengers of the gospel are sent by the command(rhema) of Christ.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

"As a new believer, and for the first three years of my life as a Christian, I struggled with the notion of faith. Those around me could not explain to me what faith was...."All around me I found men who struggled to define what saving faith was. Everyone used the word but could not define it. "What are your thoughts? Have you experienced the same in your own walk?" Yes. "Do men or women around you struggle with the word "faith?"ProbablyFor openers, I'll offer one definition that George Mueller, Watchman Nee, A.W. Tozer, Major W. Ian Thomas and others have offered. (See, for example, what George Mueller had to say in the biographic, autobiographical material that Greg (wrtbooks) posted today.)"FAITH IS BELIEVING THAT WHAT GOD SAYS IS TRUE." "Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness" (Romans 4:3, Galatians 3:6, James 2:23).The Hebrew for "believed" is "amened".Abraham "amened" God, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness."The renewed spirit in the regenerated (or "awakened"--take your pick) man or woman has been given the capacity to perceive Divine facts, the Divine realities from the written word of God."Faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence (conviction) of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1)Nee likes the word, "substantiating". Faith is the substantiating, the process of saying "amen" to, the inner response to, the perceived Divine realities.Expectation is an essential part of genuine faith, too. In one of the February Day by Day Devotions that Mike (crsschk)is posting, Tozer says something like "Faith without expectation is not real faith."("I believe, Lord. Help my unbelief!")To which He says (with a twinkle in His eye), "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the (read or heard) word, rhema(!) of God" (Romans 10:17).Roger

Sometimes you can distinguish the true by eliminating the false. Twice, in his letters to Timothy, Paul refers to 'faith unfeigned'. [1Tim 1:5, 2Tim 1:5] The KJV word 'unfeigned' is 'without hypocrisy'. The greek word hypocrite means actor. So there is a fake-faith, a pretend-faith as well as the genuine article. Part of Paul's purpose in writing 1Timothy was to produce genuine faith, non-fake faith. He links it with a pure heart and a good conscience.The Lord rebuked people as 'oligopistos'; little faithed ones. This is interesting as 'oligos' can mean of short duration. This looks like 'flash in the pan' faith.John 2:22-25 has a very important comment on faith.22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.23 ¶ Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.The emboldened words are pisteuO, the verb for belief. (pistos, is the noun, faith, belief] If we choose a word to carry the same sense through the passage we would have; many trusted in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not trust himself to them, because he knew what was in man.There are two things to notice. 1. there is a kind of 'faith', sometimes stimulated by impressions or miracles, upon which Christ cannot build.2. you cannot have genuine 'faith' in a person until you know their genuine nature. The faith that saves is faith in the character of God, revealed in Christ. Notice Paul's wonderful testimony from the shipwreck; I believe God, that is shall be even as it was told me. and that of Abraham; Abraham believed in the Lord, and it was accounted to him as righteousness.These are men whose faith has come to rest not just in God's abilities but in His character. Genuine faith is not in promise or power but in a person.

Hi Jeremy,Thankyou for your reponse. You wrote: "Verse 17 answers the questions posed in verses 14 and 15. (14) How can someone believe? (17) The message of the gospel(15) How can they hear the gospel without someone being sent to them? (17) The messagengers of the gospel are sent by the command (rhema)) of Christ."I have two thoughts. First, I disagree with your analysis for verse 17. The point is that God did send the prophet Isaiah to preach the gospel. Verse 16 is the conclusion that Isaiah made from preaching the gospel. "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" The idea of hearing God is the force of this chapter. The idea of not believing the words of God is the subject for which they are denied His rest. That is why faith is tied in with hearing. One must hear before he can make a choice to believe or not to believe. Jesus many times said, He who has ears let him hear. The idea of hearing and obeying is summed up in verse 17.Many heard the gospel through out the ministry of Jesus, the prophets, apostles, saints, and angels. Hearing the gospel preached does not imply faith. Believing unto obedience leads to trusting in God.In the Strong's Concordance, the word rhema is translated, an utterance... The idea of those who wrote the Bible not knowing the greek language well, does not seem a plausible argument. First, the Scriptures are the inspired Word of God. Secondly, Paul was a Roman citizen, and most probably spoke Greek as a primary language. In Christ Jeff

Paul teaches about how man can hear the things of God. "But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 1 Corinthians 2:10-12 You see the Corinthians had been given all things pertaining to Christ, yet it is the Spirit that communicates to the believer the depts of the knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. He speaks to us through the Holy Scripture. He gives us what is of Jesus. Paul continues on in verse 14, "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned..." Paul identifies here who can understand the things of the Spirit of God. It is the Spirit who speaks to our hearts. He counsels us in the paths of righteousness. Faith comes from hearing the Spirit bring the word of God to life in the Holy Scriptures. Faith comes from hearing the Spirit convict us of sin. Faith comes from obeying the commands that Jesus speaks to us day by day. We stumble along the way but He is faithful. Those who obey what they hear, grow in trusting the Lord with their life.In ChristJeff

"Then He went out from there and came to His own country, and His disciples followed Him. And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue. And many hearing Him were astonished, saying, "Where did this Man get these things? And what wisdom is this which is given to Him, that such mighty works are performed by His hands!...Now He could do no might work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. And He marveled because of their unbelief." Mark 6:1-6There are many instances in Scripture where this thought is brought out. Here the people acknowledged the power behind Jesus' ministry yet they did not want to believe the good news of the kingdom. As I have shared in the Gospel thread, the world does not see the evidence of humility, meekness, mournfulness, and low in spirit in the man who believes, as something that is valuable. The world's treasures are things that man can worship and obtain by his efforts. The kingdom's treasures are found by glorifying God. The door to the kingdom is open to those who will believe the words in the Bible. The question before us is, do we believe as Abram believed when God commanded him to leave his family and go to another country? Are the promises of God given to us in Scripture the substance of our hope? Is our life the evidence of obeying God and walking with Him? This is where faith begins. "Teach me, O Lord, the way of Your statutes, and I shall keep it to the end. Give me understanding, and I shall keep Your law; Indeed, I shall observe it with my whole heart. Make me walk in the path of Your commandments, for I delight in it. Incline my heart to Your testimonies, and not to covetousness. Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things, and revive me in Your way. Establish Your word to Your servant, who is devoted to fearing You." Psalm 119:33-38We must begin by believing the Word.In Christ Jeff

It is of utmost importance to understand that faith is something that God teaches us. The beginning of our walk with Jesus begins with the Holy Scriptures. "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock; and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand; and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall." Matthew 7:24-27The idea of hearing and then doing what Jesus says demonstrates our belief in His words. The idea of hearing and not doing is evidence of unbelief. Because there is no action, faith does not manifest itself in the believer. Jesus clearly gives us a choice to do or not to do. The blessings and the curses are real. For those who say, Yes Lord, even in the smallest of circumstances, they will begin to realize His faithfulness. We will begin to see His hand in all matters of our life. When the storms and trials come, we who have experience His faithfulness will rest on His promise. This is the rock, the foundation which will never be washed away.In ChristJeff

So it is by hearing the word of God that faith is established by God into the hearts of men. "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart." Deuteronomy 6:5-6. So it is God's grace, His work to put His word into our hearts. He is always waiting to speak to our hearts, are we listening?So now, how are we saved by grace through faith? What is the outcome of God's work in us who hear?In ChristJeff

Jeff,You bring up some very interesting topics. I may have not been clear on what I was trying to say. There is a DEFINATE need to hear from God. I believe that in salvation, a person not only believes the message but meets with God. I was just looking at the use of the word Rhema in the sense that pentecostals, which I am one, have misunderstood it. It's interesting that you should bring up the Lord's giving of the ten commandments. The septuagint translates them as the ten words or the ten logos :-) . However, you and I would be in total aggreement that God still speaks to mens hearts and people need to hear from Him. In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

Paul writes that, "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good." Romans 7:12"But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this; that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, " 1 Timothy 1:8-10"for the law made nothing perfect..." Hebrews 7:19"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20So we have the Holy Scriptures which reveal God through His law. Yet this law only condemns man. The law condemned Adam as well as us. So where is the hope of the OT and NT saints? Paul writes, "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Gal 5:14"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Gal 5:18Jesus says, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from law till all is fulfilled." God's law condemns, Jesus enables us to fulfill the law. How does the Spirit work to free us from the law which condemns?In ChristJeff

The law as we speak of it is not understood by most. Everyone is quick to say that by the works of the law no one is justified. This is true. But most do not understand what they are saying. I believe this has come about because of those who teach about grace. Many will teach about the imputation (sp) of grace. Yet these same teachers cannot teach about why grace or faith satisfies the law. As I have posted in the previous thought, the law makes no one perfect. The law of God teaches us what sin is. This has always been true. The law condemned the OT and NT saints before they became heirs according to the promise. The law teaches us that we are sinners. The law of God convicts us that our thoughts and desires of our hearts are wrong. The law of God teaches us that there is only one truth. God's law is perfect and holy. We are imperfect and lost. Now Paul writes, that by the works of the law no one is justified. What Scripture teaches is that man is given the law by God. The law teaches him what sin is. Yet, when man attempts in his carnal mind to satisfy the law, his attempts will never be acceptable. "For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand..." Romans 7:14-15 "For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be." Romans 8:6-7We can know that God's law is holy, righteous, and just. Yet we cannot escape the darkness of our life in the flesh. Look to all the examples given to us in the Gospels. The Pharisees stumbled because they sought to obey the law without looking to God in faith. "For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God." Romans 10:2-3Meditate on these thoughts about the law. Man's doctrine is quick to say that we are depraved. Thus we can do nothing that will satisfy God's law. This is all true. But this is also where many fall short in understanding. Paul gives us the only solution to our depravity. "For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit,you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God." Romans 8:13-14In ChristJeff

Paul writes, "For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin; He condemned sin in the flesh." Romans 8:3First Paul identifies the problem with the law. It was weak through the flesh. As I have stated prior, the law teaches us only what sin is. It teaches us what God requires of us.It is only a tutor leading us to Christ. We cannot fulfill the law with our carnal minds. We have no knowledge of how to change what is wrong in us. Now the second part of this verse points us to the only way. God sent His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin; HE CONDEMNED SIN IN THE FLESH. The ministry of Jesus show us how He overcame the weakness of mankind. Jesus followed the Holy Spirit. He is the forerunner leading us to the only path that one will be saved. We must follow the Holy Spirit. To love God with all our being and to love one another fulfills the law. Sin in our lives prevents us from fulfilling the law. Jesus preaches, "I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life." John 8:12Jesus came not to end the law but to fulfill it. Those who deny Him will walk in darkness. Those who choose to remain in the darkness will be condemned by the law. Those who obey the call of the Holy Spirit will know the Life that is revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. They will not walk in darkness. They will have the Eternal Life. Because Jesus gives to us what is His through the work of the Holy Spirit, we will learn of His righteousness. The fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives will no doubt teach us how to love God with all our being and to love one another as He loves us.In ChristJeff