False Prophets Chaos!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-292748952186052796&q=benny+hinn+tongues&hl=en

LOOK AT THIS VIDEO ON THE CURRENT CHARISMATIC MOVEMENT!

not everything on this video is false... Not all is of God

some is definitely emotion. some probably started in the spirit, then got carried away. Some of it is men of God who aren't perfect in word or speech. Lots of stuff is taken out of true context and even the manner in which it was meant.

The speaker gives absolutely no balance in scripture and is totally one sided.

"if any man offend not in word, that man is perfect lacking nothing, able to bridle the whole body."

lets not be so quick to excuse.

Don't you mean false teachers?

2 Peter
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, as false teachers will also be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction.

If, in fact, you mean false teachers I have a questions for you:

- Are they denying the Master (who bought them)?
[i][size=x-small](P.S.: Let it be noted that the false teachers are BORN AGAIN christians, who once were saved, but then denied the Master, WHO BOUGHT THEM, bringin on themselves swift destruction.)[/size][/i]

the charismatic movement has some exaggerations and some errors, but they should not be labeled as the False Teachers in the bible, nor false prophets, they are our brothers in Christ.

Watched the video.

Nothing to say really, just use our own judgment.

God bless.

(P.S.: Let it be noted that the false teachers are BORN AGAIN christians, who once were saved, but then denied the Master, WHO BOUGHT THEM, bringin on themselves swift destruction.)

Look at this verse CAREFULLY! I still haven't heard a DECENT explanation from an arminian.

1 John 3:6
"Whoever (habitually practices) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

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Heres another video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xCwmw8tf7k

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the charismatic movement has some exaggerations and some errors, but they should not be labeled as the False Teachers in the bible, nor false prophets, they are our brothers in Christ.

2 Peter 2:1
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them— bringing swift destruction on themselves."

You can't go to hell and have ever been saved. (1 John 3:6)

not everything on this video is false... Not all is of God

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

Oh gracealone, i have held my tongue for as long as i can.

You not only withhold the fullness of your personal walk, but also the fullness of your ministry.

1co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

This more excellent way is not an essential for salvation, but it is not only a greater and closer walk with jesus, but i say, IT MAY BE THE ESSENTIAL FOR THE SALVATION OF THOSE YOU CARE ABOUT.

Ac 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Ac 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many * * days hence.

to paraphrase. DON'T WORRY ABOUT PREACHING TO THE GENTILES OR THE ENDS OF THE EARTH UNTIL YOU ARE BAPTIZED IN THE HOLY GHOST. gracealone, you post about the importance of evangelism, but you rail and persecute the means by which God gives us to confirm our message.

1co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in DEMONSTRATION OF THE SPIRIT AND OF POWER:
1co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

What do these demonstrations look like. Signs, wonders, miracles.

My pastor once told me we don't seek God for the signs. For they are just a sign, they can't give you life. He said we don't go to McDonald's for the golden arches but for the hamburgers. We don't come to God for signs, but for the bread of life.

I agree completely. However, IF I DON'T SEE THE GOLDEN ARCHES, I KNOW IM NOT AT MCDONALDS. If i don't see signs wonders and miracles, i know that Jesus isn't here.

Mr 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mr 16:17 And these SIGNS shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mr 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

If there are no signs, do you really believe?

The devil has stripped you of many things. "Fear hath torment." that word torment mean in the greek means, "to prune." Your fear of the fullness of God has pruned your ministry.

Last i say this, Jesus said, if you know the father you would know me, for i and the father are one. right? Well i say, if you don't know the holy spirit, you don't know jesus, for Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one! Do you know the holy spirit when he manifests himself? Let me say, I guess that you probably are truly saved. And i know that the signs and wonders of God are puzzling and perplexing, but as the bible says, "that christ may dwell in your hearts by faith." So must we receive all things of God by faith, and not the natural man, which receives not the things of the spirit.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be ?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

I also ask for scriptural proof that the signs and wonders that followed the apostles are not for today.

First off you're going on a tangent. I'm not talking about all charismatics... I'm talking about the ones on my videos. Also, show me in history where Charles Surgeon, Martin Luther, George Whitfield, John MacArthur SPOKE IN GIBERISH. Besides that, I have to say that the fruit of the movement is best desribed by these videos.

2 Corinthians 12:12
Truly the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds.

Acts 2
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”

These wer intelligible languages meant as a sign to unbelievers.

1 Cor 14

12
Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.

22
Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers

40
Let all things be done decently and in order.

15
What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

26
Let all things be done for edification.

33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

1 cor 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. (What is this better way??? Its LOVE not tounges)

DON'T WORRY ABOUT PREACHING TO THE GENTILES OR THE ENDS OF THE EARTH UNTIL YOU ARE BAPTIZED IN THE HOLY GHOST. gracealone, you post about the importance of evangelism, but you rail and persecute the means by which God gives us to confirm our message.

First off, all true Christians (charismatic or not) have been baptized into the spirit PERIOD!

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

I'm not persecuting the TRUE church. If you were a christian you'd be on Gods side here (Matthew 12:30). You wouldn't tell me not to preach the gospel. Also, God converts sinners and that is our means of CONFIRMATION.

Besides all this LOOK at what YOU'RE DEFENDING! These people on this video are complete heretics even denying the trinity!!!!!!

Ac 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was * at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Ac 19:2 He said unto them *, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed ? And they said unto him *, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Ac 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized ? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Ac 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Ac 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Ac 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

All believers are not baptized in the holy ghost, but with the baptism of repentance. The baptism in the holy ghost is a separate work.

Ro 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound ?
Ro 6:2 God forbid *. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein *
Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

You also passed over 1 cor 13:1

1co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

I know that love is the principal, but tongues is important. And the tongues of angels is the gibberish you are talking about.

I do believe you should preach either way, baptized in the h.g. or not, but you won't be anointed for the fullness of your calling.

I do acknowledge the greatness of the fruit of the men you listed. However, i believe they would have done more had they been baptized in the H.G.

The baptism in the Holy Ghost is way more than tongues. Tongues is just the outward evidence of an inward filling.

And before you call the work of the spirit of God to be of devils....

Mt 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mt 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mt 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mt 12:4 How he entered into * the house of God, and did eat the shewbread *, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mt 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mt 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mt 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mt 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mt 12:9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
Mt 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful * to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
Mt 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out ?
Mt 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Mt 12:13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.
Mt 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
Mt 12:15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Mt 12:16 And charged them that they should not make him known:
Mt 12:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
Mt 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Mt 12:19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
Mt 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
Mt 12:21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
Mt 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
Mt 12:23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
Mt 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mt 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mt 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand ?
Mt 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out ? therefore * * they shall be your judges.
Mt 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mt 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Mt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mt 12:32 And whosoever * * speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever * * speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The Holy Spirit you are persecuting is the same holy spirit that dwells in you as a believer. I do believe your saved. I just think you need to be baptized in the holy ghost. i don't try to offend by seeming like I'm on a tangent, but i get tired of people calling the work of God the work of devils. You had better be careful of what you accuse to be false. I do agree that leading people around on ropes like dogs is the persuasion of devils. Not necessarily possession, but emotion and lack of understanding. Also note what the onlookers said about the disciples at pentecost.

Ac 2:13 * Others mocking said *, These men are full of new wine.
Ac 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Ac 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Ac 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Why did they think they were drunk? Probably because that is an effect of the holy spirit. I have experience it many times and you might too if you believed and surrendered to the work of God.
God bless.

Here's my thoughts on this, that while it's clear on the video. and that some groups have made some real errors in judgement, we all have to be careful when you watch edited pieces of information through any media without knowing the whole. Proverbs says that the fool answers without knowing the whole. In much the same way that the media (news reporters) exploits a story for thier own purposes in order to move public opinion the direction they want to, this video has the potential to do the same.

Having said that I disagreed with most of these ministries shown on the video many many years ago anyway, but that's for me personally.

Some of the video clips were decepetive (From the director). Like the director cutted the clip before it would've been put in context, then not applical for the video.

Yes the video is biased, but that's nothing to not exspect. Take everything with a grain of salt.

Man, that last part. UGH! Oh God, I know Your heart breaks, they have left and denied their first love.

Oh, I pray that the Love of Money be removed not only from the mainline 'evangelists' but the rest of the church as well.

First off, all true Christians (charismatic or not) have been baptized into the spirit PERIOD.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

If you believe otherwise then YOU MUST account for this CLEAR verse.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

This verse, I believe, refers to conversion. We find the same in Gal. 3:27 and Romans 8:16. But what is the "Baptism" which Paul speaks of to the believers in Ephesus in Acts 19? "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"

If we follow your understanding of I Cor. 12:13 (which Paul wrote!) Why would Paul even need to ask this question to men who were already believers in Christ? True, we are all baptized into Christ by one baptism at conversion, I wonder, is there a separate filling to "tarry" after in the upper room of our hunger for God?

Well, I happen to belive there is (for I have experienced it by the grace of God), and men like DL Moody and Finney also discovered it, and wrote of it. Do some research on DL Moody in particular; when he was baptised in the Holy Spirit, his ministry and prayers took on an entirely new dimension. RA Torrey tells about it. Finney himself had a very dramatic Holy Spirit baptism, which he described vividly. I'll see if I can find it and post it here.

I understand, of course, that you are driven by Calvinistic unfluences and have been taught from the pulpit that there is no such baptism to seek - and that you may even consider Finney a heretic, but certainly you cannot discount his revival that even your staunch Calvinistic precursors such as Asahel Nettleton and Beecher had to admit that God moved extraordinarily through Charles Finney - especially during the famous 1830-31 revival in Rochester, NY. Now, why would Finney and Moody lie of such a baptism if everyone simply gets baptized and filled by the Holy Spirit at conversion? Why would Ravenhill and Wilkerson and Keith Green and Moody and Finney and Cymbala and others lie about a Spirit Baptism that is separate from the conversion experience?

Brother Paul

(edit) Here are some short, somewhat abridged testionies of famous men of God who have experienced the Spirit's Baptism after conversion.

D. L. Moody
D.L. Moody was a successful minister but by his own admission later, he lacked the power in his ministry. One day two women came up to him after a service. They said,
"We have been praying for you."
"Why don't you pray for the people?" he asked.
"Because you need the power of the Spirit," they said.
"I need the power! Why," said Mr. Moody, in relating the incident years after, "I thought I had power. I had the largest congregations in Chicago, and there were many conversions.”

Moody also said that in a sense, he was satisfied. He was in a comfort zone. But these two praying women rocked the boat. They told him that they were praying for an anointing by the Holy Spirit for D.L. to have a special service to God. He could not get this off his mind and he said, “There came a great hunger in my soul. I did not know what it was and I began to cry out to God as never before. I felt I did not want to live if I could not have this power for service”.

After the great fire of Chicago, DL was working to raise money to rebuild a tabernacle. He said his heart was not into it because he kept crying out to God to fill him. He withdrew and prayed during a visit to New York to raise money and he cried that God would fill him with His Spirit. DL describes it this way:

“Well, one day, in the city of New York -- oh, what a day! -- I cannot describe it, I seldom refer to it; it is almost too sacred an experience to name. Paul had an experience of which he never spoke for fourteen years. I can only say that God revealed Himself to me, and I had such an experience of His love that I had to ask Him to stay His hand. I went to preaching again. The sermons were not different; I did not present any new truths, and yet hundreds were converted. I would not now be placed back where I was before that blessed experience if you should give me all the world -- it would be as the small dust of the balance.”

R. A. Torrey
R. A. Torrey gives his testimony:
The address of this afternoon, and the addresses of the days immediately to follow, are the outcome of an experience, and that experience was the outcome of a study of the Word of God. After I had been a Christian for some years, and after I had been in the ministry for some years, my attention was strongly attracted to certain phrases found in the Gospels and in the Acts of the Apostles, and in the Epistles, such as "baptized with the Holy Spirit," "filled with the Spirit," "the Holy Spirit fell upon them," "the gift of the Holy Spirit," "endued with power from on high," and other closely allied phrases. As I studied these various phrases in their context, it became clear to me that they all stood for essentially the same experience; and it also became clear to me that God has provided for each child of His in this present dispensation that they should be thus "baptized with the Spirit," or, "filled with the Spirit."

As I studied the subject still further, I became convinced that they described an experience which I did not myself possess, and I went to work to secure for myself the experience thus described. I sought earnestly that I might "be baptized with the Holy Spirit." I went at it very ignorantly. I have often wondered if anyone ever went at it any more ignorantly than I did. But while I was ignorant, I was thoroughly sincere and in earnest, and God met me, as He always meets the sincere and earnest soul, no matter how ignorant he may be; and God gave me what I sought, I was "baptized with the Holy Spirit." And the result was a transformed Christian life and a transformed ministry.
(I have added the bold for emphasis).

Charles G. Finney
I was powerfully converted on the morning of the month of October, 1822. In the evening of the same day I received overwhelming baptisms of the Holy Ghost, that went through me, as it seemed to me, body and soul. I immediately found myself endued with such power from on high that a few words dropped here and there to individuals were the means of their immediate conversion. My words seemed to fasten like barbed arrows in the souls of men. They cut like a sword. They broke the heart like a hammer. Multitudes can attest to this. Oftentimes a word dropped without my remembering it would fasten conviction, and often result in almost immediate conversion. Sometimes I would find myself, in a great measure, empty of this power. I would go and visit, and find that I made no saving impression. I would exhort and pray, with the same result. I would then set apart a day for private fasting and prayer, fearing that this power had departed from me, and would inquire anxiously after the reason of this apparent emptiness. After humbling myself, and crying out for help, the power would return upon me with all its freshness. This has been the experience of my life.
---
Stephen Olford gives a similar testimony as he checked into a motel and committed to stay and pray until he was baptized by the Holy Spirit so God could empower him for service. God answered and gave him a powerful ministry reaching the world through radio during the golden radio years and he continues his ministry by teaching ministers. Billy Graham said that Stephen Olford had a powerful influence over his life. Stephen prayed with Billy until he was baptized and then God exploded Billy Graham’s evangelistic ministry.

I have included some of the testimonies of some of the greatest theologians and evangelists in history. Why have we missed this important truth about the gospel? This truth is overshadowed by counterfeits and sensationalism which directs us away from the true power God desires for every believer. Also notice that none of these men reported speaking in tongues. It is a misguided belief that tongues is a required sign as proof of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. By their testimonies and writings, none of these men ever spoke in tongues, yet when they were baptized by the Holy Spirit, it transformed their lives and empowered them for God’s service. The baptism of the Holy Spirit immediately shifted their focus from their ministry to God’s purpose. The purpose of speaking in tongues is not important to this study. What is important is that God’s power is like God’s grace. He offers it equally to all

I kindly ask you to keep an open mind by the power of the Spirit.

"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" If we follow your logic, based on your understanding of I Cor. 12:13 (which Paul wrote!) Why would he even need to ask this question? We are all baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit at conversion, this is true. But is there something else to "tarry" after?

Just because he asks this question doesn't mean mean that this happens to everybody. Obivously this happened because Christ was sending his Spirit to those who were believers at that time. Because although they were believers Christ had not yet sent His Spirit. From the Day of Pentecost thats when Christ began to send His Spirit to validate His promise to send the Spirit. As the apostles were teaching, Christ was validating thier message by sending His Spirit to Greek believers as well as Jews so that it could be manifested that they are true apostles and that Greeks could be saved. He was stamping His approval on the newly founded true Church.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

2 Corinthians 12:12
Truly the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds.

Acts 10:45
And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

Why would Finney lie of a baptism if everyone gets baptized and filled by the Holy Spirit at conversion as you say? Why would Ravenhill and Wilkerson and Keith Green and Moody and Finney and Cymbala and others lie about a Spirit Baptism that is separate from the conversion experience?

we all have to be careful when you watch edited pieces of information through any media without knowing the whole.

As I was fast-forwarding through the video, Noah came to mind. Noah was caught on the “video-camera” of someone’s mind –his son Ham who thought nothing of blabbing on his dad’s disgraceful condition. God was not pleased with Noah……. oops… I mean, with Ham (!!!) – and even cursed Ham and his descendents as a result.

Yet, we think nothing today of exposing the shameful condition of others – displaying their “nakedness” for the world to see. It even feels righteous, even expected as part of the of “revival burden” package, or discernment “ministry”.

I feel that this pastor on the video acted shamefully by drawing the public eye to these shameful behaviors. What would he think of a camera catching him eating a big piece of cake while in his underwear, and then exposing it to the world (shame, shame on a Christian leader who is a glutton)

Remember, some of these people on these clips may be relatives of viewers and may be devastated, or these people may have repented long ago.

The flesh relishes in the exposure of sin. Let’s face it, we still practise the ancient ritual of tarring and feathering – using shame as a means of teaching the “criminal” a lesson or two. This video is just one example of what the Pharisees did with the woman caught in adultery. The dragged her through the streets and planted her on the “platform” where Jesus was teaching a crowd. Imagine: her relatives, her kids, her peers all watching. Her reputation would have been marred for life, even thought THAT DAY she very likely repented.

Where are our Shem’s and our Japheth’s? Those who cover shame instead of going st’ st’ st’ st’ and then talking about it.

I fear that, even while seeking revival we may actually be inviting a curse on ourselves if we do not exercise careful discernment in how we post about other people’s sins.

Why is it that threads that talk about contriversial people (sinners) are far more popular than threads that expose our own sins, and exhort us to godliness?

It is so easy to get distracted from the pursuit of godliness. We end up with a famine on threads that edify, and encourage the lost, despondent, and lonely – those who might drop in looking for a refreshing drink of water - the very ones whom God is so eager to touch through us.

Let us not set up temptations. Do we really want people to have their minds defiled with such images and comments? Let's face it, once you hear or see something, it's hard to erase.

“Whatever is true…. noble… right…. pure… lovely….. admirable…
If anything is excellent or praiseworthy – think about such things.” Phil. 4:8

I kindly ask you to keep an open mind by the power of the Spirit.

"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" If we follow your logic, based on your understanding of I Cor. 12:13 (which Paul wrote!) Why would he even need to ask this question? We are all baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit at conversion, this is true. But is there something else to "tarry" after?

Just because he asks this question doesn't mean mean that this happens to everybody. Obivously this happened because Christ was sending his Spirit to those who were believers at that time. Because although they were believers Christ had not yet sent His Spirit. From the Day of Pentecost thats when Christ began to send His Spirit to validate His promise to send the Spirit. As the apostles were teaching, Christ was validating thier message by sending His Spirit to Greek believers as well as Jews so that it could be manifested that they are true apostles and that Greeks could be saved. He was stamping His approval on the newly founded true Church.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

2 Corinthians 12:12
Truly the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds.

Acts 10:45
And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

Why would Finney lie of a baptism if everyone gets baptized and filled by the Holy Spirit at conversion as you say? Why would Ravenhill and Wilkerson and Keith Green and Moody and Finney and Cymbala and others lie about a Spirit Baptism that is separate from the conversion experience?

John 21:16
He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Tend My sheep.”

God bless you, sister. Yes, let's keep an open mind in God's Spirit. I am prepared not to argue, but to discuss in a spirit of meekness and respect for a dear fellow servant of our Lord Jesus Christ. And now, let us begin:

Obivously this happened because Christ was sending his Spirit to those who were believers at that time. Because although they were believers Christ had not yet sent His Spirit.

Sister, how have you concluded this? I thought the Spirit was poured out in its entirety on the day of Pentecost. Immediately after Peter preached, 3,000 were converted. Was the Holy Spirit later hampered in by geographic location and/or ethnicity? If so, when and why did God suddenly stop demonstrating and stamping approval on his church? You said that just because Paul asked the question to the Ephesian believers that it doesn't mean it pertains to everybody. Again, how have you concluded this? Experientially? It appears to me that your reasoning is a convenient disregarding of this entire occurence so it can fit nicely into a biased theological framework. I would think that we would need this demonstration power especially today for these perilous times in which we live! Just because J. Vernon McGee and Dr. David Jeremiah and RC Sproul and John MacArthur and Hank Hanagraaf (sp?) say one thing, it certainly doesn't make it valid. Before Luther, the doctrine of justification lay buried. Before Wesley, the doctrine of sanctification lay buried. The men you propose as great Bible scholars are, in fact, awesome men of God, but we must remember that even the great Charles Spurgeon spoke from his own own theological bias - illuminated by the Holy Ghost - and interpreted the scriptures as such.

So, why and when did God stop stamping approval upon certain believers as according to scripture? Where in scripture does it say he would stop the signs before that which is perfect had come?

Honestly, I believe it’s a lack of scripture knowledge.

That's a presumptuous statement, friend! John Wesley spoke of (and experienced) the Spirit Baptism. And men like John MacArthur and RC Sproul are also [i]modern[/i] preachers - and much more modern than Ravenhill and Finney and Moody! Are you prepared to say that Moody and Torrey and Ravenhill and Wesley were blind and deceived and experienced an unbiblical doctrine (who were not Pentecostals or Wesleyans) and that only the theologians of your Calvinistic ilk are right and have the proper interpretation? Most of the preachers you presented to me in your defense were Calvinists. I respect them all, and though I believe they were wrong on some things, I wouldn't say that only the Arminian theologians have truth and all others are in error.

Were they lying?

No, they couldn't lie about something they had never experienced - unles they knew they received it and still claimed they hadn't. The burden of proof is on you! We claimed to have experienced it; yet you say that we haven't. You claim that it's impossible, unscriptural, that it's a heretical lie. But I say that a person can be willfully blind to a truth that their denominational, cessationist taboos forbid them from seeking. It's always more safe to just go with the flow. 8-)

God bless you,

Brother Paul

wow! way too much to take in without a broken heart driving me to prayer. God is faithful.
these men represent the pentecostal church in america in our day...thats sad. (i say that without judging these individuals)

but they and there actions and deciet should not be our measure by which we determine truth or doctrine. we can't denounce our belief in spiritual gifts becuse of the distorted view of a handful of ministers...(in comparison to the many believers past and present they represent a small number) we must seek God in prayer and stay true to the Word of God.
paul; said follow me as i follow Christ...in order to know if he was following Christ one must know christ for himself