Jesus,
I'm watching James Dobson on Larry King live, please Lord help me. Lord, why is it that I don't feel any kinship with him, why is it that I don't see You in his walk and witness?
Lord, why is it that I feel he is the one of the most dangerous men in America today?
its the eyes, God, you gave me the gift of looking into a man's and seeing the map of his heart, I judge the man not, but I am not drawn to him, nor what he purports to stand for.
Not to drawn to it, I'm drawn to you Jesus.
James Dobson says to larry King; It doesnt say in the Consitution that is there should be seperation between "church" and "state".
He is a dangerous man.
"give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.
Lord help us.
(ps...did you notice I'm posting to myself? lol)
These men would like nothing more than to have a "state" church. Yet another reason to question the "Christian" right.
Bartle,
I pulled up the text of the US Constitution on the web and I could not find a word in it pertaining to church and state,unless I did not read it carefully...
Now we do not have a tv so I do not know what Dobson is saying....so perhaps my post is premature?
ginnyrose
bartle wrote:
James Dobson says to larry King; It doesnt say in the Consitution that is there should be seperation between "church" and "state".
Brother, might I humbly ask you to do some research on this topic? Particularly going back to when this started in our American history: the letters that went between Thomas Jefferson and the Danbury Baptists (it's ironic that this goes back to letters and not the actual constitution!).
Here is an article by David Barton that has quotes from our founders:
http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=9
This article is just the tip of the iceberg. Wallbuilders has some excellent resources that are well worth looking into by anyone interested in the truth of America's foundation.
This whole issue has been so twisted around. When our forefathers said separation of church and state they were referring to the government prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Here are some quotes from Jefferson:
"[N]o power over the freedom of religion . . . [is] delegated to the United States by the Constitution.Kentucky Resolution, 1798 3"
"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted [prohibited] by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions . . . or exercises. Letter to Samuel Millar, 1808 6"
They didn't want a state Church. Many of them had come out of that in England. It's why they came over to America - freedom of religion. And what is restricted today? Is it not the freedom to mention Jesus Christ in public? It seems the very things Thomas Jefferson wanted prevented is what has happened today. The government is restricting religious matters.
I have not watched what you watched on Larry King Live with Dr. Dobson. But perhaps you don't understand where the man is coming from. Please brother, please, study the history of America and perhaps it will help you understand a little bit more where this man and others are coming from.
May God bless you, brother, as you cry out to Him, He will answer you.
May God bless you too.
I have done a lot of reserach on the topic, and please forgive me when I say this, because I thank you for your suggestion, but I find wallbuilders of spurious scholarship because of David Barton, whose website is wallbuilders has been written about, It was quoted by wallbuilders that James Madison wrote:
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."So said James Madison, architect of the Constitution, defender of religious freedom and fourth president of the United States, according to the Religious Right.
But to church-state separationists and historians of the post-colonial period, something about this Madison quote has never felt quite right. It seemed unlikely that the same Madison who advocated "total separation of the church from the state" and battled to disestablish the Anglican Church in Virginia would say it.The sentiment appeared to clash with his well known advocacy of a healthy distance between religion and government.
A few years ago, with the quote popping up increasingly in the mass media (including Rush Limbaugh's daily radio show), Robert S. Alley, professor emeritus at the University of Richmond and author of James Madison on Religious Liberty, undertook a dogged effort to track it down. Enlisting the help of the editors of The Papers of James Madison at the University of Virginia, Alley scoured reams of documents, books and writings. After coming up empty handed, the Madison scholar concluded that the quote was probably fictional.
Now the major purveyor of the quote, Texas-based Religious Right propagandist David Barton, has admitted it's bogus. Last year Barton's group, WallBuilders, issued a one-page document titled "Questionable Quotes," a list of 12 statements allegedly uttered by Founding Fathers and other prominent historical figures, that are now considered to be suspect or outright false. Madison's alleged comment about the Ten Commandments is number four on the list and is flatly declared by Barton to be "false."
Advocates of separation of church and state were left breathless over Barton's audacity. For nearly 10 years, the Texas propagandist has traveled the country putting on programs about America's alleged "Christian heritage" at fundamentalist churches and other venues. During these events, Barton argued that the separation of church and state is a myth foisted on the country by the Supreme Court 50 years ago. The United States, he insisted, was founded by Christians and was intended to be a fundamentalist-style "Christian nation."
(http://candst.tripod.com/boston2.htm)
So thank you for your well intentioned posting, but I feel the spiritual health of this nation will never be whole until WE, as a nation repent together over the issue of slavery and the affect it had on the foundational aspects of this republic, and I when I see or hear men like James Dobson, I see a man whose spirit reflects the malignancy of a nation crafting a document like the Constitution while at the same time, visiting a veritable holocaust upon stolen human beings from Africa.
Our foundations from the start were rotten, its time to get real, instead of playing the pharisee game and talking about "value voters" and "family values" and "our Godly founding fathers", and how we "must take America back for Christ".
It's all a lie, and everytime I see James Dobson, thats the phrase that keeps coming back: its all a lie.
Don't mean to offend you, nothing personal.
and I close with may God bless you, bartle
Bartle, thanks for sharing what you watched on TV, although I find this exceedingly grievous. It sounds like a death rattle. The wages of sin is death. When church marries the state you have spiritual idolatry of the worst degree. This is the ultimate consequence of putting more trust in man than in God. The world loves it when the church trusts in it's principles. And they are eager to broadcast these "victories".
The camel has been swallowed, even while the gnats are being meticulously strained. If our evangelical heroes have slipped this far from the Biblical standards, just think of the entire evangelical community, which is so prone to trust in its “experts”, rely on their books, eat out of their hand, and never question anything they say (God forbid, right?).
Thousands are on a death march, and can’t see it. In their evangelistic fervor they bring everyone down with them.
I feel that God has permitted this falling down – actually out of mercy. If proud sinners don’t experience judgment in THIS life, then they will remain oblivious to the reality of eternal judgment. When the proud fall, then perhaps there is a possibility they will look up again, and cry out to God in their distress. Maybe then they will be willing to receive TRUE salvation.
If building the kingdom of God costs us the loss of the securities offered by the kingdom of this world, can we accept that? Which kingdom do we care most about? Only one of them will last.
“Lord, help me”
God asks, “Help you what?
What is it we really want God to do for us?
For me it is this: “Lord show me where I commit spiritual adultery and don’t know it. Please come and purify my heart, no matter what the cost. Lord help me to stay loyal to you, and not be tempted to place my trust in man - to seek his approval or to fear his criticisms and rejections.
Hi everyone, I would like to share some passages of Scripture
[b][color=660033] And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.[/color]
[b][color=660033]There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.[/color]
[b][color=660033]Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.[/color]
[b][color=660033]And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth[/color]
[b][color=660033]And I was afraid,
and went and hid thy talent
in the earth[/color]
I have been in the Book of Acts lately, today finishing up, as Paul reaches Rome; and as the Holy Ghost leads me, I feel its' too late already.
These men, soaked full of pride, pharisiacal pride, wedded to power and those who yield it, wedded to money, misleading the "flock", will take this nation down the road so many empires have gone, they will marry Christ with the empire, just as Constantine did with the Roman Empire, and they will craft a bastardized, apostate version of a nationalistic civic religion, masquarading as "christianity".
Its not the JW's, the mormons, the moonies, or even the RCC we have to worry about. Its not the Episcopal's, the Presbyterian's and the United Methodist's, who have so sullied the faith with their own apostasy, which is giving spiritual covering to a total "social gospel", they have no power, as the lampstand as been removed from them.....its the "religious right", the "evangelicals", the "reconstructists", "dominionists" that will craft this civic nationalistic religion, its men like James Dobson, D. James Kennedy, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and David Barton, we have to watch.
I heard with my own ears James Dobson say that he is "for" a "strong military" and "fiscal responsibility".......fiscal responsibilty? what does that mean? Does it mean giving the rich of this land a tax break to the tune of 700 billion dollars, while spending 700 billion more dollars on this "strong military"?...while we create a permanent working class poor in this nation, destroy the middle class and most of the children of this earth don't have clean drinking water?
These men are leading the "church" down the road to apostasy and hell.
Now, many of these men I mentioned are old and gray, but they have many many followers who are young and zealous, and heed their cry to "fight the culture wars", and "take back America for Christ"....maybe some of these are on this forum, and I say this to them:
Jesus is jealous of His Bride, that is the Body of Christ, the True Church, watch out. As long as this continues, and I believe that they will be, in the short term, successful in this unholy union, but in the process will drag down this fine republic and craft a theocratic dictatorship.
It happened to the Roman's, why should we be different? and the Roman Empire, which at one time, was a shining light, a robust republic, was destroyed, but ask yourself, what remained?
The Roman Catholic Church, an apostate institution, that has done more to murder and stumble the "least of these", than any church or institution in this world. Do you think its any mystery that even today, many of their very own priests are predatory homosexual child molestors?
They should all get fitted for the millstones that will placed on their necks.
"religious right", "evangelicals", watch out, the Lord will come with fire and a flaming sword, and you will cry "Lord Lord", and He will not hear you.
fall on your faces and repent NOW!!!
Ted Haggard was but a thermometer showing the high fever the "patient" is running.
We pray for revival?
are you serious?!? You actually BELIEVE revival is coming?
No, the annointing is coming, and not the annointing you think, you are going to be annointed for BURIAL.
The persecution is coming, and it will NOT be from the "heathen", it will be from those WITHIN the "church" who claim they are doing it "in the Name of the Lord".
But He sees ALL, He sees the god you truly worship, the god of this world, money, greed and power, and you will pay for all eternity.
I see it all so so clearly.
Let His will be done.
You can either worship God, or you can worship money and power, you cannot serve two masters, because Jesus is jealous for His Bride, the Body of Christ, the Church.
Firmly in His grasp, bartle
Sobering comments brother. The mixture of politics and psychology into the body of Christ has resulted in a form of godliness with no power. It grieves my heart.
May we awake from our slumber before its too late. Thank you for this clear call in the spirit to awake from the slumber.
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