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lovegrace Nov 27, 2006

You might have heard the stats that 50% of the world's population lives off 2$ a day and 75% of the world's population lives off 1$ a day.

Well, something that has been coming across in my life is money. More specifically, the love of money.

We probly all know the scriptures 'no one can serve two masters'. But something I've seen, I challenge you to look as well, is that the Love of Money is in the church.

I say this, not as a matter of discussion (which is probly unavoidable, being a forum and all..) but I post this to say, Saints/Brothers/Sisters please pray.

Yes, there are probly other things to do right now, like read a thrilling thread or something but I encourage you, from the bottom of my heart to PRAY for your brothers and sisters.

I've never seen so much evil. This 'evil' is, I believe, in the hearts of many radical believers. Not that they serve money, but that they put the AMERICAN DREAM above our brothers and sisters very own lives.

My heart is breaking. Please, I can only imagine the sounds of the deep crys that we don't hear. The unspoken voice. The Word says to speak up for the mute. Let's do that. Pray for the Family of God [u]and[/u] in HUMILTY, [b]not[/b] stubborness but meakness rebuke them.

The radical gospel that I know of, hasn't fully penitrated the hearts of my fellow (wealthy in the eyes of those stats) brothers/sisters (maybe even you). That gospel of GIVING EVERYTHING FOR THE SAKE OF CHRIST.

Not the literal 'sell everything' but the heart behind it.

Father, Oh God. I can't comprehend my brother dying without something to drink. I can't imagine my sister dying without a chance to win the world for You. Oh Father. Call my other brothers and sisters to rise up, God. Rise up and hear their cry. By the leading and power of your Spirit, may they serve their own Family. Let them forsake all for You and help those that your yearning to help.

Oh God. Break our hearts and open our eyes.

T
Tears_of_joy Nov 27, 2006

Yes.

My pastor preached on that subject this sunday.

Oh for that american dream, many will pay terrible price in eternity.

Also the church here is dreaming such dreams.

[i]Psalm 119:36 Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, [b]and not to covetousness.[/b]
37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.[/i]

[i]Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: [b]for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.[/b][/i]

[i]John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.[/i]

[i]1 Tim.6:8 [b]And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.[/b]
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
[b]11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things;[/b] and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.[/i]

Heartbreaking message on this subject preached by brother David Wilkerson - [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1628]The Redeemer Is Coming To Zion[/url]

C
Compton Nov 28, 2006

Not the literal 'sell everything' but the heart behind it.

And with this slight of hand you may have just explained how the love of money finds pragmatic sanctuary in our churches...our resonable approach to stewardship. The confession of the willing heart...as if 'willingness' could feed or clothe anyone.

My feelings here is that this is one rabbit hole you should be sure you can accept wherever it takes you before entering it. I know I've only had the courage to peek inside...

Blessings...in the only the most spiritual sense!

MC

T
Tears_of_joy Nov 28, 2006

The radical gospel that I know of, hasn't fully penitrated the hearts of my fellow (wealthy in the eyes of those stats) brothers/sisters (maybe even you). That gospel of GIVING EVERYTHING FOR THE SAKE OF CHRIST.

“So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:33).
This is perhaps the most unpopular of all Christ’s terms of discipleship, and may well prove to be the most unpopular verse in the Bible. [b]Clever theologians can give you a thousand reasons why it does not mean what it says, but simple disciples drink it down eagerly, assuming that the Lord Jesus knew what He was saying.[/b] What is meant by forsaking all? It means an abandonment of all one’s material possessions that are not absolutely essential and that could be used in the spread of the gospel. The man who forsakes all does not become a shiftless loafer; he works hard to provide for the current necessities of his family and himself. But since the passion of his life is to advance the cause of Christ, he invests everything above current needs in the work of the Lord and leaves the future with God. In seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, he believes that he will never lack food and clothing. He cannot conscientiously hold on to surplus funds when souls are perishing for want of the gospel. He does not want to waste his life accumulating riches that will fall into the devil’s hands when Christ returns for His saints. He wants to obey the Lord’s injunction against laying up treasure on earth. In forsaking all, he offers what he cannot keep anyway, and what he has ceased to love.
-William MacDonald ([url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12995&forum=34#100363]True Discipleship[/url])

T
Tears_of_joy Nov 28, 2006

[b]Forsaking All[/b]

[i]“So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:33).[/i]

To be a disciple of the Lord Jesus, one must forsake all. This is the unmistakable meaning of the words of the Savior. No matter how much we might object to such an “extreme” demand, no matter how much we might rebel against such an “impossible” and “unwise” policy, the fact remains that this is the Word of the Lord, and He means what He says.

At the outset, we should face these unbending truths:

1. Jesus did not make this demand of a certain, select class of Christian workers. He said, [i]“Whosoever he be of you…”[/i]

2. He did not say that we must simply be willing to forsake all. He said, [i]“Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not…”[/i]

3. He did not say that we must forsake only a part of our wealth. He said, [i]“Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath…”[/i]

4. He did not say that a diluted form of discipleship would be possible for the man who holds on to his treasures. Jesus said, [i]“…he cannot be my disciple.”[/i]

Actually, we should not be surprised at this absolute demand, as if it were the only such suggestion in the Bible.

Did Jesus not say:

[i]“Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven…” (Matthew 6:19, 20)[/i]?

As Wesley justly said, “To lay up treasure on earth is as plainly forbidden by our Master as adultery and murder.”

Did Jesus not say:

[i]“Sell that ye have, and give alms…” (Luke 12:33)?[/i]

Did He not instruct the rich young ruler:

[i]“…sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me” (Luke 18:22)?[/i]

If He did not mean exactly what He said, what then did He mean?

Was it not true of the believers in the early church that they [i]“sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need” (Acts 2:45)?[/i]

And has it not been true of many of God’s saints down through the years that they literally forsook all to follow Jesus?

Anthony Norris Groves and his wife, early missionaries to Baghdad, became convinced that “they must cease to lay up treasure on earth, and that they should devote the whole of a very substantial income…to the Lord’s service.”1 Groves’ convictions on this subject are set forth in his booklet, CHRISTIAN DEVOTEDNESS.2

C. T. Studd “decided to give his entire fortune to Christ, and to take the golden opportunity offered him of doing what the rich young man had failed to do….It was simple obedience to the black and white statements of God’s Word.”3 After distributing thousands to the work of the Lord, he reserved the equivalent of $9,588 for his new bride. She was not to be outdone by her husband. “Charlie,” she asked, “what did the Lord tell the rich young man to do?”

“Sell all,” he replied.

“Well then, we will start clear with the Lord at our wedding.” And off went the money to Christian missions.

The same spirit of devotedness animated Jim Elliot. He wrote in his diary:

“ ‘Father, let me be weak that I might lose my clutch on everything temporal. My life, my reputation, my possessions, Lord, let me loose the tension of the grasping hand. Even, Father, would I lose the love of fondling. How often I have released a grasp only to retain what I prized by “harmless” longing, the fondling touch. Rather, open my hand to receive the nail of Calvary, as Christ’s was opened—that I, releasing all, might be released, unleashed from all that binds me now. He thought Heaven, yea, equality with God, not a thing to be clutched at. So let me release my grasp.’ “4

Our infidel hearts tell us that it would be impossible to take he words of the Lord literally. If we forsook all, we would starve. After all, we must make provision for our own future and the future of our loved ones. If every Christian forsook all, then who would finance the work of the Lord? And if there were not some Christians who were wealthy, then how could the higher class of people ever be reached with the gospel? And so the arguments come pouring forth in quick succession—all to prove that the Lord Jesus could not have meant what He said.

The fact of the matter is that obedience to the Lord’s command is the most sane and reasonable life and the one that yields the greatest joy. The witness of Scripture and of experience testifies that no one who lives sacrificially for Christ will ever suffer want. When a man obeys God, the Lord takes care of him.

The man who forsakes all to follow Christ is not a shiftless pauper who expects to be supported by his fellow Christians.

1. He is industrious. He works diligently for the supply of his current necessities and those of his family.

2. He is frugal. He lives as economically as possible so that everything above immediate needs can be put into the Lord’s work.

3. He is foresighted. Instead of accumulating wealth on earth, he lays up his treasures in heaven.

4. He trusts God for the future. Instead of giving the best of his life to the building up of vast reserves for old-age security, he gives his best to the service of Christ and trusts Him for the future. He believes that if he seeks first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, he will never lack food and clothing (Matthew 6:33).

-William MacDonald (True Discipleship)

H
hmmhmm Dec 7, 2007


Tears_of_joy wrote:
The radical gospel that I know of, hasn't fully penitrated the hearts of my fellow (wealthy in the eyes of those stats) brothers/sisters (maybe even you). That gospel of GIVING EVERYTHING FOR THE SAKE OF CHRIST.

“So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:33).
This is perhaps the most unpopular of all Christ’s terms of discipleship, and may well prove to be the most unpopular verse in the Bible. [b]Clever theologians can give you a thousand reasons why it does not mean what it says, but simple disciples drink it down eagerly, assuming that the Lord Jesus knew what He was saying.[/b] What is meant by forsaking all? It means an abandonment of all one’s material possessions that are not absolutely essential and that could be used in the spread of the gospel. The man who forsakes all does not become a shiftless loafer; he works hard to provide for the current necessities of his family and himself. But since the passion of his life is to advance the cause of Christ, he invests everything above current needs in the work of the Lord and leaves the future with God. In seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, he believes that he will never lack food and clothing. He cannot conscientiously hold on to surplus funds when souls are perishing for want of the gospel. He does not want to waste his life accumulating riches that will fall into the devil’s hands when Christ returns for His saints. He wants to obey the Lord’s injunction against laying up treasure on earth. In forsaking all, he offers what he cannot keep anyway, and what he has ceased to love.
-William MacDonald ([url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12995&forum=34#100363]True Discipleship[/url])

i thought this was worthy of another read, and by Gods grace applied even more unto our life's...

May it be so

sermonindex Dec 7, 2007

Brothers, on Krispy's Christmas thread I had a long post I wrote on-line here.

I then decided to leave the first half off. Thanking God that He may have led me to do that on there.

I fully agree with your zeal and that expressed by Jim Elliot and the others.
Have prayed a very similar prayer and have received His answer to it.

This was the original first half of my post on the Christmas thread that I didn't post and I will explain more after it -

[i]Watching all these "Christmas" threads and feeling that condemnation may be poured on some of us and also how it may bring divisions and rob a very strong Potential for "Witness" to the world.
Do we really need condemnation now?
I live on one meal a day, started years ago in honor of all the missionaries around the world. I don't watch TV - I don't have medical insurance - I'm very ill and I live in a nightmarish environment, without family anywhere near. I give every waking minute to Him alone, in whatever ways He leads as best as I can. I do force my body to do things for my Church and to visit those in the Nursing Home.
It's not my fault that others cannot be free from communist countries right now. I have no income whatsoever to send to the less privileged than myself. I have nothing to give to anyone - but the reason for the Hope that's within me and that's HIM - Jesus Christ - the Savior of the world.

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

WHY must we make threads against Christmas? - the only time that many of us even hear from our unsaved families and others or when they are tolerant to hear the reason for Christ's coming.

Why set one more reason for Division between us - just when most of the other heavy debates have ended ?

I have nothing festive at all going on for Christmas, as in the past. I will probably be alone in my room, either on the computer or in an upright position in bed as usual. But when they began to play the Christmas hymns - the warmth of them and hearing what many of you will be doing this month, it filled my own soul with such happiness and I felt that I was with you all as Family in spirit, by hearing all that some of you posted and told of your plans.
I felt I could mentally visualize each of you with your families having a joyful time and it filled me with great Joy. It was spilling off onto me - and because I don't care for Fictional stories - your Christmas stories being real life - present tense - has been a true heart felt lift for me and I thank you.


Why not preach "the right thing to do" on 'many' threads - 365 days a year - but leave others to have Christmas - even if it's by proxy? [/i]


To explain now on this thread - why I agree with you all and how we can feel this burden for ourselves personally, without it oppressing us about others who we think don't feel this way.

When I grieved over the state of things in the Church some time ago, to the point of even becoming down-trodden over it - the Lord gave this verse to me and I saw a great light in it -
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, [b]The Lord knoweth them that are His.[/b]

In His Foreknowledge - HE knows who will be saved in the future and who will be with Him in eternity, even now.

To exhort one another unto good works is good - but the Lord had to say to me - that I can not FORCE Devotion on anyone - but must be careful for myself chiefly.


"Them that are His" [i]will[/i] live His life, here on earth - whether they ever meet us - or read our posts - or ever hear the sermons we have heard. They hear or will hear the Shepherd's Voice and Will follow.
We need not beat anyone into devotion. Only goats need to be driven - Sheep will follow the Shepherd.

The LORD has given me strong command to pray for everyone that comes in my field of vision or to my knowledge - as He said - "pray for the Saints EVERYWHERE."

And pray that the LORD would free up those who are yet to come to Him. He knows them that are His - and will be in the end.

It is important to show the world the reason for our HOPE. This life is too short to get frustrated with each other's words.
We need to pray for each other and know that, 'them that are His' will hear Him and Follow and desire to lay down their lives for Him in the present tense and the future - literally.

Sacrifice starts now - not when the gun is to the head.

But again - to not be down-trodden - we must have that Faith in GOD - that YES, He will have a people that resemble Him. He has written that He would.

Watch your own lives carefully. Watch that pride will not lift brother against brother nor that we feel that we can take the job of the Holy Spirit in other's lives.

Forgive me if my posts are not written well or proper because of illness, I no cannot put my thoughts into words as I did years ago. But I will be praying that HE Himself will bring Scriptures to your mind or eyes that express so much better what I've tried to reply with here.

My love and appreciation for you all as my Family, runs very very deep. You have been my stay through these years. And as persecution will come, my thoughts will be with you all also.

May He Bless you and your Families with the Greatest amount of Himself that a human being can contain. And whosoever prays that - be prepared to hold on to your hats. When HE more fully reveals Himself to us - after we've asked - we can barely contain the Glory and Majesty of HE Who is Both Equally Love and Holy.
May we desire both in His even measure.
His Love burns also, as equally as the fire we know as His Holiness.
May we learn the Divine equal balance and trust Him more through prayer for others and for ourselves, always.

His Great Love and John 17 to His Family.

T
Tears_of_joy Dec 8, 2007

Dear sister Annie, I know that it is hard thing to share the heart. And thank you that you share something from your heart, I appreciate this! These words came to me after reading your post:

Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another [b]to provoke[/b] unto love and to good works:

Thank you.

sermonindex Dec 9, 2007

lovegrace said

[b]I've never seen so much evil.[/b]This 'evil' is, I believe, in the hearts of many radical believers. Not that they serve money, but that they put the AMERICAN DREAM above our brothers and sisters very own lives.
That was a good post, brother. Thank you for pouring your heart out here, again.

Have you noticed how its grip rests on what MC has tagged 'a bi-covenantal' gospel - a mixture of the Old and New Covenant with verses pulled from all over the place, sometimes completely reversed from their original context, to make it seem like all God has on His mind is the business success of a saint.

Mattie has posted a good thread today on seeing scripture through the eyes of the persecuted church. That's a rich truth to grasp, also.

S
Spitfire Dec 9, 2007

I've never seen so much evil. This 'evil' is, I believe, in the hearts of many radical believers. Not that they serve money, but that they put the AMERICAN DREAM above our brothers and sisters very own lives.

Oh! The American Dream gospel, yes! This has proven to be the deepest barb in my soul and, quite honestly, it is like pulling teeth to get it out of me. Just this past week I was having a conversation with God and I told him that I feel as if my internal hard drive has been contaminated with malicious code. I was raised in the American Dream gospel. It was the only gospel I knew up until about 3 and half years ago. I almost feel it is impossible for me to overcome. I'm constantly struggling with feelings of frustration and restlessness which I think may be stemming from this internal message about "success". I'm struggling to break free from my old way of life, but I don't like doing without. That's just the honest truth. I like stuff. I know that I am worshipping mammon! I'm actually shocked to discover how much I love it! Oh my God! I need help! Please help me! Dian.

P
psalm1 Dec 9, 2007

you can give all that mammon to me. It may cost you some shipping but think of how good you will feel.
Ive been doing without for so long im sure Im overdue for a blessing.

Just kidding.......But then again.........?

David

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