So, I was looking up Revival links on iTunes and came across this title, and it being Jay Bakker's church, I thought it was a sarcastic title, but I was wrong. Personally I am horrified by the disgusting filth, but does anyone else want to take a listen and share their reaction on it?
How we need a revival!
link: http://www.revolutionnyc.com/media.htm
Ben :-o :-( :-?
"But be ye [b]doers[b]decieving
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that [b]work
Listened to it. I have comments to make, not in favour of it, but I'll try not to sound biased, such as the speaker of the message was.
1 Tim 4v1-3, 'Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
verse 2, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
vers 3, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
It was sad to listen to. It was obvious that satan so has these people deceived that truth has to be twisted to make them feel good about themselves.
To also make themselves feel good, they have to condemn those who don't agree with them.
As for the sermon, the 'theology' in it had holes the size of cannon balls.
Hebrews 4v13, 'And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Sadly, they are headed for hell, unless God Himself reaches these people. How He will do it, only He knows, but the time is short.
That's it, for now!
God bless.
When the Word of God specifically calls something sin, who are we to say it isnt so? Do we dare call God a liar? Thats not something that I want to be held accountable for before the Judgement Seat...
Krispy
As an aside, did he say something in the message about he's glad he's got his beer with him, but he hopes the people won't notice?
Did I hear wrong, or not?
Strong delusion.
God bless.
I read through the 'Idea' of Revolution (the site hosting this clip). It reads:
"[i]To show all people the unconditional love and grace of Jesus without any reservations because of their lifestyle or religious background, past or future. This love has no agenda behind it (I Cor. 13:5). This grace sets no timeline on personal change or standards for spiritual growth (Romans 4:4-5). The idea is to be a part of people’s lives because we truly care for them rather than to fulfill a religious duty; to walk with them through all their struggles as a part of their life, not as a religious outsider.
This is evidently Jim Bakkar's son whom I understand started out in 'ministry' in Pheonix at a very well known church that in no way would hold these views. My pastor was in attandance at the meeting when this young man gave his testimony and he was reunited with his father Jim. It is a very moving thing to watch or listen to. However, there has been some further collateral damage from all of the goings on back then.
It is important that we find a way to confront some of the misguided folk who have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. I have heard ministries that are dedicated to reaching the youth that absolutely believe in no repentance, no sin preaching and 15 second sinners prayers. They believe they are doing God a service.
Generally, I don't like saying it, but it seems that the ministries directed at youth seem to 'get by' with just about anything doctrinally or morally. And I'm a youth pastor. The older folk seem to just want to thank God they are doing something for God- so DON'T discourage them! Let them minister with blatant sin in their life and maybe- just maybe they'll repent. But whatever you do- don't run them off. I have seen youth destroyed almost beyond hope of recovery. Their consciences are all but seared from standing as a priest to do the work of God with every intention of going back out to a life of fornication or some other blatant sin. Their minds end up in a confusion you won't believe.
And while were on the subject we ought not be surprised when we look for the most RADICAL looking folk on earth to minister to, that when they do 'get saved' what they will sometimes bring to the table. I have heard preachers from these radical; street backgrounds that would CUSS a blue streak and preach Sunday Morning. I have witnessed this in the streets and have been a victim of their volitile and unpredictable behavior. I don't care how radically in sin a person is- they still need to be born again in a way that yields a Christ like life. I'm not impressed because some guy who has been to prison for 50 years is totting a bible- I want to see evidence of such a radical change that their life gets in step with God's word and they stop using 'excuses' that to do so would be to side with the 'religious' folk or to become pharisees. That is a cop-out. God can save a person from the lowest gutter- but thats what He does- He saves them.
We renounce who we used to be- we don't take it on as a means of ministry. That is taking Jesus' name onto whatever your pleasure. I want to be who I am and I want to 'add' Jesus to it? That is what were talking about here. I can come to Jesus and be a Christian_________ (You fill in the blank). And in my experience it does NOT last. They are trying to hang on to what they were rather than DYING to what they were.
Col. 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
When God says something is sin we cannot do that very thing in the name of Jesus. This needs to be the key in all we do and say. So it better be done and said in Christ's perfect love.
In His service,
Preacheraflame
When God says something is sin we cannot do that very thing in the name of Jesus. This needs to be the key in all we do and say. So it better be done and said in Christ's perfect love.
This is a great point also. It is amazing to me as I read the New Testament how many [i]facets[u]expression
There was a man I came into contact with last week that was mocking our out reach ministry to the homeless as if he were demon possessed. I had taken all I could and turned to the man and rebuked the devil that was undoubtedly working in him. He suddenly came to his right mind and spoke a few more bizarre things. The Spirit of the Lord came upon me and I began to preach righteousness and judgment to come to this man. He then threatened to choke me to death and folk around we in fear he would. But, out of character for me as it was, I took a strong stand in love and the man's countenance changed. I gave him a bible and shook his hand. I found out later he had conspired to start a knife fight in our outreach in August and other things. the thing that stunned me is that a gal asked him as he was leaving WHY he took the bible. He said it was because it was the first time a Christian really challenged him and did not come off as goody goody (para). He could not receive love as I am used to giving it (hug, pat on back, God bless you, etc.). He needed challenged.
This week a gal came as we were loading up and was asked if she knew Jesus Christ. The Spirit of the Lord came on her and she was utterly broken with little preaching. All soft spoken and in love. We prayed with her and she turned to Christ. Now, what is it? Was the one wrong and the other right? No. We have to be sensitive to God and allow the Lord to deal with us one by one and one person at a time. No cookie cutter methods. Sometimes things are said in love that are not all that lovely [i]sounding
RobertW said
Oh! Yes I do. It's mean. That's because it's Isaiah 5:20 - 23 in action, as much as bowing down to idols (Lev 18) in action.Their minds end up in a confusion you won't believe.
{quote} Robert
Was the one wrong and the other right? No. We have to be sensitive to God and allow the Lord to deal with us one by one and one person at a time. No cookie cutter methods.
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Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
.................................................
I’ve always taken the last two verses to mean that there are people who are won over only by love and there are people who are won over by only hearing of their sin condition and destiny if they persist in that condition. A method that would work for the one wouldn’t work for the other.
It amazes me how the modern Church deals with the sin of homosexuality.
God never has anything nice to say about homosexuality or homosexuals in the entire bible.
In Genesis He destroyed two entire cities full of Sodomites. (some preachers are ready to apologize for God's behavior)
In Leviticus He calls it an abomination. (Calling it gross is one of the last things a preacher might say.)
In Romans He calls it vile, unseemingly, inconvenient, unnatural, filthy. (this is to harsh of language for some congregations).
And 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says homosexuals and sodomites will not inherit the kingdom of God. (but some prefer the term "gay" and say that they certainly won't end up burning in hell)
We will never get anyone saved, if we tell people that they are already saved.
I’ve always taken the last two verses to mean that there are people who are won over only by love and there are people who are won over by only hearing of their sin condition and destiny if they persist in that condition. A method that would work for the one wouldn’t work for the other.
That's an excellent passage to site Gary (Jude 22, 23). I am also finding this more and more.
I’ve always taken the last two verses to mean that there are people who are won over only by love and there are people who are won over by only hearing of their sin condition and destiny if they persist in that condition. A method that would work for the one wouldn’t work for the other.
It's true. Back when I used to fight and sell drugs, I had local Christians who would "befriend" me and would "love" on me, and never once did it ever challenge me to change my life.
It was only when a hell-fire preacher came into the jail that I was in, and laid out our sin and told us we were heading for hell, that I finally was convicted by the Holy Ghost, became disgusted with sin, and fell in love with Jesus.
The responses have been excellent and insightful. It befuddles me sometimes as to how a preacher can drink beer at the pulpit, speak a gross misinterpretation of Scripture and not be convicted of these acts. Talk about a Shepherd feeding his sheep the wrong food while leading them down a path towards destruction and hell rather than towards Life and Christ...! It makes my stomach turn!
{quote}
It was only when a hell-fire preacher came into the jail that I was in, and laid out our sin and told us we were heading for hell, that I finally was convicted by the Holy Ghost, became disgusted with sin, and fell in love with Jesus.
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This reminds me of a man that came in the chapel a while back. He told me about a man that had lived a terrible life in his youth then later on became a pastor. He said one day he asked this now pastor about this and what had happened. The pastor said he heard about hell and he didn’t want any part of it.
The odd thing is that some really hard people are never won over by hell fire preaching. For some it is only the demonstration of love that will make a difference. The demonstration of love was what set me up. I was around people who loved on me even though it was obvious that I wasn’t living a Christian life.
On my special day I heard about hell. I had no doubts that it is a real place, but I knew I could do nothing about my sin condition. Up to that point I had tried to free myself of different sins but couldn’t stay free. The simple message of what Jesus has done to take away sin and set me free was given. For some reason I had never heard the words {born again} up to that time. What I heard was that the Lord wanted to do this {new birth} in my life and he wanted to set me free. There would be an all new beginning and the Lord would give me victory. Some of the Christians who had loved on me were the ones who invited me to this meeting.
Robert,
As I read your post I get the feeling the older people share some of the blame for the sin that is allowed in churches among its youth....what would happen if the church would again require its members to make public confessions of sins that hurt others?
Let them minister with blatant sin in their life and maybe- just maybe they'll repent. But whatever you do- don't run them off. I have seen youth destroyed almost beyond hope of recovery.
It puzzles me how older people can be so blind unless it is because they have unconfessed/unrepented sin in their own lives they do not want to face up to...what say, Robert?
ginnyrose
bro Jesse
It amazes me how the modern Church deals with the sin of homosexuality.
it amazes me too, we are tolerant of it and afraid to speak against it. it seems to me however we are even more tolerant of adultery, porn, fornication all of which have done more damage to the Church and the lives of those in the Church since those are by far much more prevalent sins. The homosexual is also aware that these things are wrong yet when they see us paying a blind eye to them, they have mo incentive nor desire to repent because they see hypocracy. We need to tackle both issues.
God never has anything nice to say about homosexuality or homosexuals in the entire bible.
AMEN, indeed our Lord has not spoken well of fornicators, adulterers, liars, thieves etc.
In Genesis He destroyed two entire cities full of Sodomites. (some preachers are ready to apologize for God's behavior)
actually bro Jesse, the other sins of Sodom and Gomorrah which warranted their destruction are mentioned in Exekiel 16
[b] 49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
Indeed homosexuality was something which sodom was guilty of but God was going to wipe them out anyway because they were prideful, gluttonous, lazy etc. of all the things which our Lord got angry with Israel about, idolatry and pride seem to come first, social injustices, then laziness. Those seem to be the things which get GOd the most and i think the sexual sins come forth as a result of all that. i suppose we assume homosexuality was the prevalent sin and the reason for the destruction of those 2 cities since it is the only one mentioned by name. sure it is one if them but let us not neglect the others.
And 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says homosexuals and sodomites will not inherit the kingdom of God. (but some prefer the term "gay" and say that they certainly won't end up burning in hell)
the first sexual sin mentioned in that list is "fornicator", then "idolater" then "adulterer" perhaps Paul was aware that those sins were more prevalent in the Church than homosexuality. Not to excuse this sin but is the same not true today? i believe sometimes we focus a lot on homosexuality to keep us from dealing with our own adulteries and fornications to our detriment and the homosexual's detriment because they see our hypocracy and last i checked, hypocracy is something Israel was always accused and guilty of and punished for along with idolatry. those are things we are very guilty of and lest we repent, we will likewise perish.
God help us!
you know i used to think that the homosexual were lying when they said they were born that way. they are right you, perhaps they have the wrong perspective. nonetheless it ties into how we are all born with a sin nature and have propensity to sin and commit sins, which is what i mean when i say they were born with it, in the same way we were born with the propensity to sin and do so just as they do and we also need to repent.
...they were prideful, gluttonous,lazy etc. of all the things which our Lord got angry with Israel about, idolatry and pride seem to come first, social injustices, then laziness. Those seem to be the things which get GOd the most and i think the sexual sins come forth as a result of all that.
I would tend to agree with this progession and relationship. Idle and bored people are soon sensually indulgent people. If people allow themselves to become more wantonly piggish, sexuality is only one unabated appetite that is unleashed...gluttony, greed, jealousy, ambition, and other revelries begin to surface.
Base corruptions, such as sexual perversion, but also overeating, material greed, and laziness, accompany each other because at their core they are all the same selfish aphrodisia.
MC
GaryE, i have the same testimony. i knew i was filled with evil, a drug addict whore. i needed to hear hope. i was desperate for a message of hope from anybody. no one gave me that message until i was lead by a friend to visit this small fellowship. the pastor preached a simple message of the cross, and how Jesus came to set us free from sin. i was raised hindu/bhuddist, and always knew since i was a little child that there was only one God, and knew that the living God was not made of stone. when i heard the simple gospel, it blew my mind! i was in awe that Jesus died for me so that i may have life! it broke me to tears that someone love me so much that He gave His life away so i may have life. i got down on my knees and cried out to God in the mist of all. i didn't care that i look like a fool. i wanted Jesus to be my God, and cried out to Him. right after that, i was so filled with His love and peace that consume me, and after that i never looked back!!!
its very important to be lead by the Spirit. i believe in preaching about hell and sin, but not all need to hear that message. i was one. i knew i was full of sin, and was going to hell. i needed to hear a message of hope.
It's interesting, I was thinking of posting on this very topic today.
I've noticed something in the evangelical church that we have to be careful of - that in standing up against the world's view on this (which I am wholeheartedly behind doing) that we don't let the enemy get in by us driving away people with same-sex attraction. I have known a couple of devoutely commited (one even married) Christians who struggle with same-sex attraction and yet deny the flesh every day and take up their cross and follow Christ.
The problem is that in speaking out against homosexuality without a combined explanation of the love of God we drive people with homosexual attraction who need the love of Christ away from Him - the only true solution.
I understand the frustration with the World and especially with false teaching on this issue in the Church but it is vital that homosexual people don't become the modern-day leper in the evangelical church, which I fear is what they have become.
Let us please not let the enemy push us too far in rubber-stamping what is sometimes homophobia with the Bible.
Homosexual actions are sin, detestable to God, but the cross provides the soluion.
Adam.
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