Contemplative Prayer

I have never heard of this until today. What does everyone think about it? Or does anyone have more info on it?

Here is a short article I found.

---------------

Question: "What is contemplative prayer?"

Answer: It is important to first clearly define what "contemplative prayer" is. For the purposes of this article, contemplative prayer is not just "contemplating while you pray." The Bible instructs us to "pray with our minds (1 Corinthians 14:15), so clearly, prayer does involve "contemplation." However, praying with your mind is not what "contemplative prayer" has come to mean.

The concept of contemplative prayer has slowly increased in practice and popularity each year since the mid 1990s along with the rise of the Emerging Church Movement - a movement which embraces many non-biblical ideas and practices. Contemplative prayer is one such practice.

Contemplative prayer, also known as centering prayer, is a meditative practice where the practitioner focuses on a word and repeats that word over and over for the duration of the exercise. According to Abbott Thomas Keating, this is how it is done: "Choose a sacred word as the symbol of your intention to consent to God's presence and action within. Sitting comfortably and with eyes closed, settle briefly and silently introduce the sacred word as the symbol of your consent to God's presence and action within. When you become aware of thoughts, return ever-so-gently to the sacred word. At the end of the prayer period, remain in silence with eyes closed for a couple of minutes."

Although this might sound like an innocent exercise, this type of "prayer" has no Scriptural support whatsoever. In fact, it is just the opposite of how prayer is defined in the Bible. "Don't worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done" (Philippians 4:6, NLT); "At that time you won't need to ask me for anything. The truth is, you can go directly to the Father and ask him, and he will grant your request because you use my name. You haven't done this before. Ask, using my name, and you will receive, and you will have abundant joy" (John 16:23-24, NLT). These verses, and others, clearly portray prayer as being comprehendible communication with God, not an esoteric, tantric meditation.

Contemplative prayer, by design, focuses on having a mystical experience with "God." Mysticism, however, is purely subjective, and doesn't rely upon truth or fact. Yet, the Word of God has been given to us for the very purpose of basing our faith, and our lives, on truth (2 Timothy 3:16-17). What we know about God is based on fact; trusting in experiential knowledge over the biblical record takes a person outside of the standard that is the Bible.

Contemplative prayer is no different than the meditative exercises used in Eastern religions and New Age cults. Its most vocal supporters embrace an open spirituality amongst adherents from all religions, promoting the idea that salvation is gained by many paths, even though Christ Himself stated that salvation comes only through Him (John 14:6). Obviously, contemplative prayer is in opposition to biblical Christianity, and should definitely be avoided.

Josh,

It's very much in the new age, as I once was once heavily involved with this before I came to Jesus. It's basically witchcraft and I would certainly avoid it.

Let the Holy Spirit guide your prayers, and then you can rely on 1 John 5:14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

We're not asking for some selfish desire here but it has to be according to his will.

I've heard of chanting and other things, but I didn't realize people have tried to "christianize" this.

My initial reaction to this concept when I started reading this has been "this sounds like new age".

You know what? People just seem to complicate things when you work to 'improve' what Jesus said.

Being repetitious reminds me of what Jesus said: Mat 6:7: But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

ginnyrose

There's a book called "Experiencing the Depths of Jesus Christ" which I understand touches on this topic. I've read some of it. I'm not sure if the author calls it contemplative prayer, but I think it's along the same lines. It definately has to do with meditation and what some might describe as more mystical ways of connecting with God.

I also understand that this book and these concepts greatly influenced such saints as Hudson Taylor, John Wesley, and Watchman Nee.

God said: "Be still and know that I am God."

Paul said to let the Word of Christ dwell richly in you. Not just pass through your mind, but [i]dwell[/i] in you [i]richly[/i].

Those are just a couple Scriptures that came to mind that seem to touch on this topic. Though it may not be possible to absolutely "prove" the legitimacy of some of the specific techiniques in Scripture, I doubt they could be disproved either. Just like how you probably couldn't absolutely "prove" the legitamcy of a church choir or an electric guitar or sound equipment (which the New Age also uses) by the Scriptures, that doens't mean these things are wrong.

This stuff was God's and the Church's before the New Age started messing with it. Don't let them scare you away from your inheritance.

It is interesting.

Romans 8:26
"In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express."

That verse would tend to disagree that ALL prayer is things said in a known language, or even with words of any kind. What about the phrase "A picture is worth a thousand words." Isn't this how we think when we dream each night? Surely we can express ourselves to God and listen to Him in more than only words.

Interestingly I should point out a few verses for testing the spirits and our own thoughts to see if they are from God or in agreement with God.

James 3:17-18 (NIV)
But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.

Galatians 5:19-26 (NIV)
"The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other."

James 4:6
"...God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

Jesus was so emphatic that you identify a person by their fruit that He said so plainly twice, IN ONE GOSPEL!
Matthew 7:20
"Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions."

Matthew 12:33
“A tree is identified by its fruit. If a tree is good, its fruit will be good. If a tree is bad, its fruit will be bad."

Galatians 5:6
"...The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love."

Romans 14:23
"...everything that does not come from faith is sin."

These are but a few.

I have recently married a lovely girl from Russia. The old church there that has survived the severe persecution of its governments is called the "Russin Orthodox Church". Being 'Orthodox' they pride themselves as having a direct traceable lineage from the first 12 apostles. Infact their complex traditions that bewilder westerns and make us immediately think "RELIGEOUS SPIRIT!!! AHHHH" aren't altogether bad if you see them in the light of their origens. One such tradition that traces back to a monastary built on Mt Siani during the first 300 years after Christ, began a practise in earnest that had already begun in other places in the church. This was called "The Jesus Prayer". In it's longest form it reads (in English) "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." It has often been used as "Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy" or just "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus..." They were called the Hesseychasts (though i may have misspelt that name) They used to focus their eyes and their attention on their chests around the area of their heart and in time with their heartbeat they would repeat the Jesus Prayer over and over and over and over again. They would sit for long hours in this uncomfortable posture in places where they wouldn't be disturbed and cast all thoughts and images and other distractions from their mind and tried to get their hearts to focus solely on the Lord with love. New information about many of the monastic traditions relating to the Jesus Prayer is in the process of translation out of old Greek in the form of the book called the 'Philioklia'. (If you find that someone has finished its translation, please let me know where to look.) It details all the theology and traditions and practices and teachings related to much of the monastic life and meditation and contemplation. The end of the Hesseychats in doing this was to experience the "uncreated light" or as we are more familiar with "the shekina presence of God". One such Russian Orthodox monk in the 1800's named St Seraphim had the pleasant experience of shining so brightly that the guy walking next to him was afraid to look as he feared that he would become blinded, and when he did look, he saw what looked like a face in the middle of a brilliant fire that bathed the nearby forest with light. I have heard of other Christians with this experience too. This happened while St Seraphim was teaching him that the sole point of Christian life was to be filled with the Holy Spirit. He had other gifts from the Holy Spirit too, such as healing and the "word of knowledge" or as the orthodox translate it into english "clairvoiance".

The Catholics too have this devotion to meditation and contemplation. Take St Theresa of Avila for instance who on one occasion had all the nearby nuns sitting on her because she was so rapt in God that she began to float away into the air during a church service and the nuns didn't want to scare the congregation. Or St Francis of Assisi who during meditaions was witnessed to have experienced truly staggaring manifestations of the love and presence of God.

There are numerous mentions of meditation in the Bible and apparently when God told Joshua to meditate on Gods law given to him through Moses, it meant for him to 'SAY' not 'read' it over and over and over and over, ie memorise it by chanting it over and over again. He must have done what he was told to do as one of the first things he did after he crossed the Jordan river was to write that law (probably from memory) on twelve stones.

The passage in Mark where Jesus says that people are silly who try to get God to hear them by chanting things over and over again has caused me confusion considering the way God has honoured the saints past who appear to have done this very thing. But I don't think that these saints were saying their chants over and over again because they though that it might make it easier for God to hear them. Rather they were using these simple phrases to simplyfy the focus of their heart to love for the Saviour and nothing else. In my personal experience of doing this I have found that it helps me dramatically as I become still and know that God is God.

Thankyou for the article you found. here are some related ones I found on www.Sermonindex.net
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3021
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3022
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3023
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3024
It seems that links to meditation and contemplation are difficult to find on this site. Also i seem to be getting unrelated articles when i try searching for things in the archive. This causes me difficulty which is why I put the links here cause you'll otherwise probably not find them.

I will be interested in your response.
;-)

I spent some years being wary of meditation but was interested in meditation because of the scientific research done regarding its effect on a person and its usefulness in sending a person to sleep at night when they're having trouble sleeping, I had also heard that some Christians did it. I have come across enough resources now to change my mind and show me that God really likes it when we give Him our complete attention without asking for anything and just 'be' with Him.

Matthew 6:7-8 KJV
“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.”

Here is what Strong's Greek & Hebrew Lexicon says about the word that the original manuscripts used for “babbling”:

battologeo
battologew battologeo
Pronunciation:\tbat-tol-og-eh'-o
Origin:\tfrom Battos (a proverbial stammerer) and 3056
Reference:\tTDNT - 1:597,103
PrtSpch:\tverb
In Greek:\t
In NET:\t
In AV:\tuse vain repetitions 1
Count:\t1
Definition:\t1) to stammer
2) to repeat the same things over and over, to use many idle
words, to babble, prate. Some suppose the word derived from
Battus, a king of Cyrene, who is said to have stuttered;
others from Battus, an author of tedious and wordy poems. from Battos (a proverbial stammerer) and 3056; to stutter, i.e. (by
implication) to prate tediously:-use vain repetitions.
see GREEK for 3056

God would much rather answer prayers prayed by those who trust Him and therefore their prayers are completely honest and are humble and reverent, filled with faith, hope and love. I suggest that this statement by Jesus is more threatening to those who pray big long prayers and try to manipulate God by the human effort they put into their prayers (see John 6:63), than it is to those who practice silent meditation who knowing that God already knows their needs and have decided to give their precious time to God in humble silent trusting adoration (in addition to other forms of prayer).

Here is an example from the Old Testament of the two approaches (Gentile babbling and holy prayer) placed side by side and the corresponding responses from God:

1 Kings 18:22-39 KJV
“…called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. … And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded. …Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word. Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again. Then the fire of the LORD fell…”

As you can see, the prophets of Baal prophesied all day long, and prayed, and danced, and cut themselves and repeated themselves and got no answer all day long. Elijah prayed a short prayer with faith and the fire of God fell down. Clearly Jesus was supported by Scripture. This seems quite unlike the emotional prayers people pray in prayer meetings when everyone is watching, prayers which are in no less danger of falling into the “vain repetitions” category than meditation.

Joshua 1:8
“This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.” KJV

“Never stop reciting these teachings…” (Gods Word for Today translation)

Here is one Bible Dictionary’s definition of the Hebrew word used here for “meditate”
“read it in undertones,” or “recite it quietly”

Here from the book of Joshua, Joshua was told to completely and totally memorise the scroll of the Law by verbally reciting the law day and night over and over and over again. Certainly repetitious, but certainly not vain unlike the pagans’ vain babbling. You see his purpose was different. The pagans were trying to get their god’s attention. Joshua’s purpose was to let the Law dwell richly in him so that he would obey it always on every occasion.

People who meditate using a repeated phrase to focus and calm their mind are not trying to get God to answer their prayers, instead they are trying to give God their attention because of His great love not asking for anything and being grateful to just sit in His presence. They are also trying to discipline their bodies (1 Corinthians 9:27). I believe this is quite different to what Jesus was talking about.

I myself have been blessed by meditation and found that it seems to somehow enable God to flow deeper into my life and empower me to live His way, this is much like my experience with speaking in tongues.

This is some of what I have discerned from the scriptures regarding the legality and safety of meditation. I request to be shown clearly if this is an incorrect reading of scripture as I do not want to do the wrong thing.

I wholly reject contemplative prayer, in the form suggested on this post.

Hebrews 5v7, 'who in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear.

This scripture speaks about the Lord Jesus Christ and this does not sound like contemplative prayer to me.

Prayer can vary to the degree of need involved.

Who says our prayers have to be the same day in day out?

There can be supplications, prayers and intercessions, 1 Tim 2v1.

Thanksgiving, 1 Thess 5v18.

The needs vary, so the prayer varies, James 5v13-15.

Contemplative prayer can be found in Eastern mysticism, Hinduism and any Chrisitan who practices it are trifling with things they know nothing of.

Churches are introducing yoga to their congregations now. Why?

Thanks for the link Dorcas, it speaks for itself.

God bless.

Most of the dictionary meanings in this particular post are from http://net.bible.org/home.php and bible verses are from the NIV using www.biblegateway.com unless stated otherwise.

I searched for “Meditate” in the NIV and a few other translations and then went up and looked up the Hebrew that it was translated from. Here is my result.
The verse comes first, followed by the explanation of the Hebrew word regarding “meditate”.

Genesis 24:63
He went out to the field one evening to meditate, and as he looked up, he saw camels approaching.

suwach
xws suwach
Pronunciation:\tsoo'-akh
Origin:\ta primitive root
Reference:\tTWOT - 2255
PrtSpch:\tverb
In AV:\tmediate 1
Count:\t1
Definition:\t1) (Qal) to meditate, muse, commune, speak, complain
1a) meaning uncertain a primitive root; to muse pensively:-meditate.

And from http://net.bible.org/home.php:
“The meaning of this Hebrew term is uncertain (cf. NASB, NIV “to meditate”; NRSV “to walk”).”

Psalms 1:2
But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night. NIV

“The verb הָגָה (hagag) means “to recite quietly; to meditate” and refers metonymically to intense study and reflection.”

Psalm 39:3
My heart grew hot within me, and as I meditated, the fire burned; then I spoke with my tongue:

hagiyg
gygh hagiyg
Pronunciation:\thaw-gheeg'
Origin:\tfrom an unused root akin to 01897
Reference:\tTWOT - 466a
PrtSpch:\tnoun masculine
In AV:\tmeditation 1, musing 1
Count:\t2
Definition:\t1) whisper, musing, murmuring
1a) murmuring
1b) musing from an unused root akin to 1897; properly, a murmur, i.e.
complaint:-meditation, musing.
see HEBREW for 01897

Psalm 48:9
Within your temple, O God, we meditate on your unfailing love.

damah
hmd damah
Pronunciation:\tdaw-maw'
a primitive root; to compare; by implication, to resemble,
liken, consider:-compare, devise, (be) like(-n), mean, think,
use similitudes.

Psalm 77:12
I will meditate on all your works and consider all your mighty deeds.

hagah
hgh hagah
Pronunciation:\tdaw-gaw'
Origin:\ta primitive root [compare 01901]
Reference:\tTWOT - 467
PrtSpch:\tverb
In AV:\tmeditate 6, mourn 4, speak 4, imagine 2, study 2, mutter 2, utter 2, roaring 1, sore 1, talk 1
Count:\t25
Definition:\t1) to moan, growl, utter, muse, mutter, meditate, devise, plot, speak
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to roar, growl, groan
1a2) to utter, speak
1a3) to meditate, devise, muse, imagine
1b) (Poal) to utter
1c) (Hiphil) to mutter a primitive root (compare 1901); to murmur (in pleasure or
anger); by implication, to ponder:-imagine, meditate, mourn,
mutter, roar, X sore, speak, study, talk, utter.
see HEBREW for 01901

Psalm 119:15
I meditate on your precepts and consider your ways.

siyach
xys siyach
Pronunciation:\tsee'-akh
Origin:\ta primitive root
Reference:\tTWOT - 2255
PrtSpch:\tverb
In AV:\ttalk 5, meditate 5, speak 4, complain 2, pray 1, commune 1, muse 1, declare 1
Count:\t20
Definition:\t1) to put forth, mediate, muse, commune, speak, complain, ponder, sing
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to complain
1a2) to muse, meditate upon, study, ponder
1a3) to talk, sing, speak
1b) (Polel) to meditate, consider, put forth thoughts a primitive root; to ponder, i.e. (by implication) converse
(with oneself, and hence, aloud) or (transitively) utter:-
commune, complain, declare, meditate, muse, pray, speak, talk
(with).

Psalm 119:23
Though rulers sit together and slander me, your servant will meditate on your decrees.
(Same Hebrew word used as in Psalm 119:15.)

Psalm 119:27
Let me understand the teaching of your precepts; then I will meditate on your wonders.
(Same Hebrew word used as in Psalm 119:15.)

Psalm 119:48
I lift up my hands to your commands, which I love, and I meditate on your decrees.
(Same Hebrew word used as in Psalm 119:15.)

Psalm 119:78
May the arrogant be put to shame for wronging me without cause; but I will meditate on your precepts.
(Same Hebrew word used as in Psalm 119:15.)

Psalm 119:97
Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long.

siychah
hxys siychah
Pronunciation:\tsee-khaw'
Origin:\tfrom 07879
Reference:\tTWOT - 2255b
PrtSpch:\tnoun feminime
In AV:\tmeditation 2, prayer 1
Count:\t3
Definition:\t1) meditation, reflection, prayer, devotion, complaint, musing
1a) complaint
1b) musing, study (of object) feminine of 7879; reflection; be extension,
devotion:-meditation, prayer.
see HEBREW for 07879

Psalm 119:99
I have more insight than all my teachers, for I meditate on your statutes.
(Same Hebrew word used as in Psalm 119:97.)

Psalm 119:148
My eyes stay open through the watches of the night, that I may meditate on your promises.
(Same Hebrew word used as in Psalm 119:15.)

Psalm 143:5
I remember the days of long ago; I meditate on all your works and consider what your hands have done.
This verse is interesting as it includes three Hebrew words related to meditation and contemplation:
One is the same Hebrew word used as in Psalm 77:12. another is the same Hebrew word used as in Psalm 119:15. and the last:

zakar
rkz zakar
Pronunciation:\tzaw-kar'
Origin:\ta primitive root
Reference:\tTWOT - 551
PrtSpch:\tverb
In AV:\tremember 172, mention 21, remembrance 10, recorder 9, mindful 6, think 3, bring to remembrance 2, record 2, misc 8
Count:\t233
Definition:\t1) to remember, recall, call to mind
1a) (Qal) to remember, recall
1b) (Niphal) to be brought to remembrance, be remembered, be thought
of, be brought to mind
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to cause to remember, remind
1c2) to cause to be remembered, keep in remembrance
1c3) to mention
1c4) to record
1c5) to make a memorial, make remembrance a primitive root; properly, to mark (so as to be recognized),
i.e. to remember; by implication, to mention; also (as
denominative from 2145) to be male:-X burn (incense), X
earnestly, be male, (make) mention (of), be mindful, recount,
record(-er), remember, make to be remembered, bring (call,
come, keep, put) to (in) remembrance, X still, think on, X
well.
see HEBREW for 02145

Psalm 145:5
They will speak of the glorious splendor of your majesty, and I will meditate on your wonderful works.
(Same Hebrew word used as in Psalm 119:15.)

Here is another word from the New Testament:
1 Timothy 4:15
Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. KJV

meletao
meletaw meletao
Pronunciation:\tmel-et-ah'-o
Origin:\tfrom a presumed derivative of 3199
Reference:\t
PrtSpch:\tverb
In Greek:\temelethsan 1, meleta 1
In NET:\tplot 1, absorbed 1
In AV:\tpremeditate 1, imagine 1, meditate 1
Count:\t3
Definition:\t1) to care for, attend to carefully, practise
2) to meditate i.e. to devise, contrive
2a) used of the Greeks of the meditative pondering and the practice
of orators and rhetoricians from a presumed derivative of 3199; to take care of, i.e. (by
implication) revolve in the mind:-imagine, (pre-)meditate.
see GREEK for 3199

The Bible clearly says to think deeply about what it says, and about God and His attributes, and it says to do more, far more, as far as the depths of imagination and thought and ingenuity will take you and then some.
Should this be included under the umbrella title of “prayer”? Well that depends on your own personal opinion and has little effect on whether we should do it.
In conclusion, the Bible says to contemplate, and if meditation is repeating a phrase so that your mind doesn’t wander from your focus of adoring God then this would easily be included within the Biblical advice to contemplate. Can you fault my logic? Can you say there is no Biblical basis for Christian contemplation/meditation? If you can please tell me! Perhaps you might suggest that this was an Old Covenant activity that was wiped out by the New Covenant? God certainly enjoyed King David doing it!

Thankyou Dorcas for the Lectio Divina link it is very helpful. I might try it sometime, it sounds interesting.

I don't think anything is wrong with meditation, as it is in the Bible (thank you 'yourforgiven'). Even in Whitefield's journals, he mentions meditating some while at Oxford (that is, being silent before God in prayer).
I believe the problem comes when we don't understand meditation in its eastern manifestation. In the east, people meditate to focus their minds on their own advancement and sense of god-hood. It's a part of training their minds, which they believe advances them to a state of realizing their unity with 'God,' which is an impersonal force that permeates everything. When we meditate, I would hope that we would instead silently remember what God has done for us, and on the excellency of Our Lord, as a means to worship him.

Perhaps I should have signed myself as "forgive me" ;-)

That's a helpful perspective Dantejones

blank your mind

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Ah, the paradox of this life sometimes... Either we are apt to give little thought, or no thought or over the rails we go to some kind of man-ish idea, a construct of contemplation cooked up such as was brought out in the original here. Yes, it ought to be rejected.

What is prayer but many things at any given time? Often the great battlefield of the soul, the spirit, the desire [i]to[/i] pray and the very dragging away from it by the flesh, the world and the devil. Those three continually repeat or rather is it [i]beat[/i] the saint all the days along this pilgrimage. The world silently and subtly draws off, we find ourselves drifting or adrift... Other times it is wonderful to indeed ...[i]shut up already[/i] and listen but this ought to be more the norm than exception anyway no? Out of the prayer closet and into the world ... [i]praying without ceasing[/i] and listening, recognizing that we are always in Gods very presence. A dear brother just brought this rather alarming note to my attention, might have to post something in this regard elsewhere.

Maybe all I am attempting here is to say, with so much at stake, with so much to intercede for, persecution, warring saints, worldliness in the Church ... Goodness just a sampling of items discussed even here in this forum ought to give us plenty of ammunition and food for prayer. Pondering our navels over praying the Lords will ... What has been coming up in addition to all these things of late is just [i]change[/i], I certainly hope to God we are challenged and changing daily by all the absorption of such spiritual truth and food for thought that permeates this very place. It is rich food for the soul and spirit. Holiness in it's truest, deepest sense. In spirit and in truth. Just to be exceedingly honest before God in our prayers and our praying is enough of contemplation to last a lifetime, what need for 'method' or for proscriptions and centering on mystical experience or concentrating upon a word by rote or repetition ... To present ourselves as we are and as we think is far and away enough of challenge unto itself.

The great danger in this is in crafting experience rather than the experience, if it comes at all or in the manner we might have it crafts us. There is also something entirely selfish about this whole thing if we were to stop and ... think about it.

[i]This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.[/i] (Jos 1:8)

[i]Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.[/i] (Psa 1:1-2)

I guess we need to ask ourselves what is the original meaning of the term "meditating on the word".

-from Strongs...
hâgâh
haw-gaw'
A primitive root (compare H1901); to murmur (in pleasure or anger); [b]by implication to ponder[/b]: - imagine, meditate, mourn, mutter, roar, X sore, speak, study, talk, utter.

Its meaning here primarily is ‘to ponder’. In other words think upon these things which were written for doctrine, reproof, and instruction in righteousness. Meditate does not mean to empty your mind of all thought and wait for subjective emotional experiences. We are never commanded in the scriptures to pursue such disciplines.

Hagah also means 'to study'. Don’t just read a passage and memorize it but digest its full meaning within the context it was written. In the Joshua passage the meaning, in context, is for Joshua to study the law carefully as his only reliable guide as the new leader of Israel. "that thou mayest observe to do". Here is the purpose of the meditation on the word-obedience which will lead to success, "for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success."

I believe the phrase, "This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth" refers more to the digesting of God's word than of the speaking of it over and over again. The Scripture, "man shall not live by bread alone..." comes to mind here.

[i]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.[/i](2Ti 2:15)

In Christ,

Ron

Its meaning here primarily is ‘to ponder’. In other words think upon these things which were written for doctrine, reproof, and instruction in righteousness. [u]Meditate does not mean to empty your mind of all thought and wait for subjective emotional experiences. We are never commanded in the scriptures to pursue such disciplines.[/u]

Hagah also means 'to study'. Don’t just read a passage and memorize it but digest its full meaning within the context it was written. In the Joshua passage the meaning, in context, is for Joshua to study the law carefully as his only reliable guide as the new leader of Israel. [u]"that thou mayest observe to do". Here is the purpose of the meditation on the word-obedience which will lead to success, "for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success."[/u]

Amen. Thanks brother. I agree completely.

Contemplative prayer is a wide umbrella. The best description of it would be Mary sitting at the feet of Jesus. Pretty much the classic manual for contemplative prayer is the Cloud of Unknowing.

Lectio Divina is simply praying the Scriptures, meditating and praying the Word back to God.

Sorry if this sounds like talking down but Protestants tend to shy away from contemplative prayer and it really is one of the most beneficial forms of prayer.

Karsten

p.s. The Catholic Catechism on Contemplative Prayer:

II. CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER

2709 What is contemplative prayer? St. Teresa answers: "Contemplative prayer [oracion mental] in my opinion is nothing else than a close sharing between friends; it means taking time frequently to be alone with him who we know loves us." Contemplative prayer seeks him "whom my soul loves." It is Jesus, and in him, the Father. We seek him, because to desire him is always the beginning of love, and we seek him in that pure faith which causes us to be born of him and to live in him. In this inner prayer we can still meditate, but our attention is fixed on the Lord himself.

2710 The choice of the time and duration of the prayer arises from a determined will, revealing the secrets of the heart. One does not undertake contemplative prayer only when one has the time: one makes time for the Lord, with the firm determination not to give up, no matter what trials and dryness one may encounter. One cannot always meditate, but one can always enter into inner prayer, independently of the conditions of health, work, or emotional state. The heart is the place of this quest and encounter, in poverty and in faith.

2711 Entering into contemplative prayer is like entering into the Eucharistic liturgy: we "gather up:" the heart, recollect our whole being under the prompting of the Holy Spirit, abide in the dwelling place of the Lord which we are, awaken our faith in order to enter into the presence of him who awaits us. We let our masks fall and turn our hearts back to the Lord who loves us, so as to hand ourselves over to him as an offering to be purified and transformed.

2712 Contemplative prayer is the prayer of the child of God, of the forgiven sinner who agrees to welcome the love by which he is loved and who wants to respond to it by loving even more. But he knows that the love he is returning is poured out by the Spirit in his heart, for everything is grace from God. Contemplative prayer is the poor and humble surrender to the loving will of the Father in ever deeper union with his beloved Son.

2713 Contemplative prayer is the simplest expression of the mystery of prayer. It is a gift, a grace; it can be accepted only in humility and poverty. Contemplative prayer is a covenant relationship established by God within our hearts. Contemplative prayer is a communion in which the Holy Trinity conforms man, the image of God, "to his likeness."

2714 Contemplative prayer is also the pre-eminently intense time of prayer. In it the Father strengthens our inner being with power through his Spirit "that Christ may dwell in [our] hearts through faith" and we may be "grounded in love."

2715 Contemplation is a gaze of faith, fixed on Jesus. "I look at him and he looks at me": this is what a certain peasant of Ars in the time of his holy curé used to say while praying before the tabernacle. This focus on Jesus is a renunciation of self. His gaze purifies our heart; the light of the countenance of Jesus illumines the eyes of our heart and teaches us to see everything in the light of his truth and his compassion for all men. Contemplation also turns its gaze on the mysteries of the life of Christ. Thus it learns the "interior knowledge of our Lord," the more to love him and follow him.11

2716 Contemplative prayer is hearing the Word of God. Far from being passive, such attentiveness is the obedience of faith, the unconditional acceptance of a servant, and the loving commitment of a child. It participates in the "Yes" of the Son become servant and the Fiat of God's lowly handmaid.

17 Contemplative prayer is silence, the "symbol of the world to come" or "silent love." Words in this kind of prayer are not speeches; they are like kindling that feeds the fire of love. In this silence, unbearable to the "outer" man, the Father speaks to us his incarnate Word, who suffered, died, and rose; in this silence the Spirit of adoption enables us to share in the prayer of Jesus.

2718 Contemplative prayer is a union with the prayer of Christ insofar as it makes us participate in his mystery. The mystery of Christ is celebrated by the Church in the Eucharist, and the Holy Spirit makes it come alive in contemplative prayer so that our charity will manifest it in our acts.

2719 Contemplative prayer is a communion of love bearing Life for the multitude, to the extent that it consents to abide in the night of faith. The Paschal night of the Resurrection passes through the night of the agony and the tomb - the three intense moments of the Hour of Jesus which his Spirit (and not "the flesh [which] is weak") brings to life in prayer. We must be willing to "keep watch with [him] one hour."