Whatever Happened to Repentance???

This is the title of Pastor David Wilkerson's latest sermon delivered at Times Square Church in New York City. You can listen to it here: [url=http://www.tscnyc.org/sermons.php]Repentance[/url].

For those who keep up with Pastor David, his wife had surgery some months back and apparently his son Greg is quite ill. For those who have been blessed by his many sermons on SI, I ask that you keep him and his precious family in prayer.

For many, they have found it to be too hard to live and too hard to preach...

This is true. And also we are dealing with a sort of 'slow death' in that like a person wearing down and freezing in the frozen tundra they are succumbing to the times in which we live. The world is offering more and more gadgets and things to turn our affections away from God and towards the things of this world. The more a person's heart is captured by the world the less they even think about the need for real repentance.

One of the word's for repentance means to 'change the mind'. The enemy is looking to change believers minds [i]back[/i]. He captures the imagination and folk start sliding away from their first love. They become comfortable there and it becomes difficult to move them out of it. It becomes very TENSE. You get labeled as negative and some sort of harsh person. You're accused of getting angry and then getting in the pulpit.

Any peace apart from repentance is a false peace (Wilkerson). Finney said it is impossible to please sinners. The conscience only rests when repentance has taken place to the best of the person's knowledge. What a wonderful thing! A clear conscience.

Amen, Robert!

I would guess the cause is pride. Have you all not experienced it: when the Holy Spirit nudges us to change we like to respond with "but..." "I do not want to.." "What will others think of me?" "My church/pastor does not teach this.." "I would be too embarassed..." It is I, I, I in the center of all our excuses. In my opinion it is pride that prevents repentance and in turn revival. The Scriptures also say "Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18

One day this verse spoke to me: 1Ti 5:24 "Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." I got this mental picture of standing before the great white throne judgment seat and having my sins enumerated before the whole world and not having them under the blood: thus condemned to hell. What a fool I had been! SO I had to think: which is worse: humbling myself before a few people and admitting I am wrong, needing help (and then getting it) OR waiting until the judgment day? Either way my sins are going to be exposed, and it is up to me to chose when this will occur. As I see it, it is pride that prevents people from doing it now.

ginnyrose

Either way my sins are going to be exposed, and it is up to me to chose when this will occur. As I see it, it is pride that prevents people from doing it now.

This is a point I have often thought of. Those ministers who have 'fallen' in the faith have already been [i]exposed[/i]. Their sins are not following after them.

The sad thing that too often happens is that Christians present their good works before hand and then their sins follow after. We need this in reverse. What if we presented ourselves transparent and was honest and leveled with folk while at the same time not allowing our right hand know what the left hand doeth in our 'good works'? You push your failures in front and allow the good works to follow.

But this is not what I see. I see folk always trying to come off as if they are in perfection or something and you almost never hear of them having to repent. Can this be possible? The sin of slothfulness alone is epidemic in ministry and the church. Not to mention others sins of gluttony and lust and a whole gamut of stuff. We hear a lot of, "I'm doing thus and such for the Lord" but not a whole lot of, "Woe is me for I am undone and have [u]failed[/u] the Lord." Its almost as if folk have got it together 24/7/365 and never have a single incident. Well, quite candidly, I'm not there. I still have to repent and ask forgivness of the Lord and men from time to time. I'm not proud of it, but that is reality.

I cannot be as thorough in pasting passages and links in as I would like to be as I am at work, sorry.

This is a good thread, agreeing with all comments so far. John Welsey wrote an article on Christian Perfection (I believe it's on this site) and I think the issue really comes in accepting that we are not perfect but also not using that as an excuse to keep on sinning.

I believe that repentance from dead works and faith towards God will provide us not only with a desire not to sin but also the ability not to do so. That is not to say we will be perfect and never sin (it sounds like a contradiction but it's not).

We are called to "walk in the Spirit" not in the flesh (Romans 8) and yet we know we will still continue to make mistakes. This was the struggle that Paul faced in Romans 7 and the supposed contradiction that we are free from and have the ability not to live in sin, but will also make mistakes is brought together beautifully in 1John1.

1Jo 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of Life,
1Jo 1:2 (for the Life was revealed, and we have seen it and bear witness, and show to you the everlasting Life, who was with the Father and was revealed to us),
1Jo 1:3 that which we have seen and heard we declare unto you, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.
1Jo 1:4 And we write these things to you so that your joy may be full.
1Jo 1:5 And this is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.

So, I think I might not have made clear what my point is - In answer to your statement Robert, I think we are meant be living in a life that is not characterised by sin, but not one that is ever going to be totally free from it.

The importance is in the fact that we strive towards perfection and that our reaction to the fact we still sin is "Oh what a wretched man I am" (end of Romans 7) as opposed to a "nobody's perfect" which leads to our repentance becoming out of habit as opposed to sincerity of heart.

SOrry if that was a little off point and rushed but I hope it adds to the discussion a bit. I'll explain clearer later today if needed :)

God Bless,

Adam.

{quote}

I believe that repentance from dead works and faith towards God will provide us not only with a desire not to sin but also the ability not to do so. That is not to say we will be perfect and never sin (it sounds like a contradiction but it's not).
..........................................

If the ability to not sin wasn’t given to the Christian, the Word wouldn’t be able to say, “Resist the devil and he will flee from you.”

The words pride and slothfulness bother me. Sometimes I wonder if my life isn’t anything but chaff. Many times when I thought I was at the head of the class I was really at the back. Those that are first will be last. It is so easy to see a victory in my life then be satisfied with that and not go on. Isahiah had been a prophet for a few years before he was undone and found out his lips were unclean. Maybe much of the words that were unclean were words that a preacher preaches on Sunday morn. David Brainerd once said words close to this, “If they only knew my heart they wouldn’t think so highly of me.” Pride stinks in the nose of God.

David’s mighty men clave to the sword and held the ground against all odds. I guess this fits well with another thread going on. To be like David’s mighty men a person needs to have given up his life. There needs to be repentance and with repentance comes death. It is when the seed dies or in other words we die to the flesh that God brings a resurrected life. Then God can take a desert place of our fleshly life and make it a watered garden.

GaryE

If the ability to not sin wasn’t given to the Christian, the Word wouldn’t be able to say, “Resist the devil and he will flee from you.”

Yep, absolutely right, sorry - I'm used to having to fight my corner on this stuff, not on here clearly :)

Lets not forget the first part of that verse
James 4:7 "Submit yourselves therefore to God"

This is the part that most of us have a problem with.

Also look at 1 Peter 5:6 - 10
5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Verse 9 "resist stedfast"
God Bless, Wayne

For those of you who don't know, the actual title is "Whatever Happened to Repentance Preaching?" (not just repenting)

He even talked about a couple pastors who lead megachurches, a feel-good message, are now preaching repentance after being filled with the Holy Ghost. Now they have an audience of about a hundred.

It's a reminder to pray for prosperity teachers and not just to talk about them. (i'm the number one guilty party)

Finney said it is impossible to please sinners. The conscience only rests when repentance has taken place to the best of the person's knowledge. What a wonderful thing! A clear conscience.

I think this is a good time to share some wisdom from a sermon by Dr. Edwin Orr. Some practical steps for us all to take on the road to repentance. He said,

"Let the circle of the sin be the circle of confession.

If you sin secretly and no one in the world knows except God…tell God!
(Proverbs 28:13)

If you sin privately and someone else is hurt by the thing or by your example put it right privately with that person as well. (Matt.5:23-24)

If you sin openly let everyone who knows about it that you have put things right."
(James 5:16)

Dr. Orr also made a point that we sin in specific ways so we need to confess in specific ways. He backs this assertion up with scripture.

When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned.
Lev. 5:5

"We sin in specific things.

Ask God to search you

And if there is specific sin, confess sincerely and put that specific thing right with Him and others also if necessary."

This is sound biblical and also practical wisdom so all of us can begin right now to repent if we are sincere about it.

When you come to the prayer closet, come clean. This is a principal of prayer for revival I believe.

If my people which are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and heal their land. 1Chr 7:14

If you and I do this today fully we will know how to communicate it with other Christians. It begins with us.

If you and I do this today fully then our prayers will be unencumbered and the Holy Spirit more apt to move on our behalf in our prayers for revival and A great American Awakening.

The sad thing that too often happens is that Christians present their good works before hand and then their sins follow after.

Wow...this really is a bondage in the church. I know I need more honesty and reality with God's people. We should preach an uncompromised message not because we are perfect...but because we are not and must be constantly walking in the grace and filling of the Holy Spirit to avoid calamity and ruin in our lives.

Perhaps we have made church a marketing appeal to the world rather then a fellowship for the church herself.

Whatever the case, confessing sin is terribly risky business in today's churches...surely this must change in order for us to be emptied of our own pride and vanity, and completley filled with the Holy Spirit.

Blessings,

MC

as for me, I agree, by the grace of God we have been given the ability to obey in everything that God commands!

Amen. It is [i]totally[/i] by grace. All through the Bible we see God talking about how He was going to do this; "I will take your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh" and the verse that got me recently was when David prayed in the psalms "Create in me a clean heart, oh God"... David asked God to create the heart in him - how often do we get burdened because we pray "help me clean up my old heart" instead of accepting that we need God to create a clean heart in us...

"He who is in Christ is NEW creation"

Apologies for not providing references, little time.

Adam.

As for the full topic in hand, "Whatever Happened to Repentance Preaching?" - it's amazing how unpopular this preaching is even in the evangelical churches today.

Oh that God would raise up people that would preach this, and that the Spirit would convict men's hearts.

My apologies on the thread. Thanks for the correction... I would encourage you to listen to Pastor David's sermon...

May the Holy Ghost bring the conviction of sin that only He can bring. It's the kindness of God that leads toward repentance as stated in Romans 2:4.

There seems to be a vital ingredient missing in this thread: confession. How can anyone repent without first confessing his shortcomings? I’m not referring to a religious rite or a generalized formulated statement – but just plain honesty about the deep innermost parts of one’s being.

I fear that many fail to appreciate the long and painful process of brokenness that leads to self-awareness (confession). We prefer the hasty path towards repentance. Yet, without honesty, we will only ever attain superficial repentance at best.

Confession is the process of moving beyond the denials, discovering ourselves and agreeing with what we see – that we, indeed have chosen the wide path. Confession involves the stripping of all our cover-ups, defenses, and self-righteousness. It involves the convicting work of the Spirit.

Confession is the most difficult hurdle to overcome - even harder than repentance. Only when we can practice true confession, that is a - honesty and admission, will we move towards repentance, willingly and eagerly.

I wonder: why is there such a dearth of discussion about confession - at least in comparison to topics on repentance? Is it that we don’t see the need? Is it that we ourselves have short-circuited the path of honest confession? Are we ourselves still in denial about a lot of our own sin? (Of couse, we can't answer that honestly apart from divine revelation)

How can a preacher expect his pew-dwellers to be honest about themselves when he fails to be honest about himself?

Our spiritual leaders must set the example. They must preach from the position of weakness and neediness and not from the position of “better-than-you”. They must recognize their own fallenness, if they want their underlings to do so.
We need good role-models. After all, people, like sheep, will follow.

We all know preachers/ religious people/ parents, etc who never admit their shortcomings, and yet are quite bold in denouncing the sins of others. However, that is never very effective.

Really, no matter what sin we denounce, in some way we are guilty of the same root cause of that sin. After all, we all struggle with remnants of the old nature.

From the book: Fundimentals of Preaching by J Killinger:

"Confession permits other people to think about their failures without feeling that they are under attack. They can identify with the speaker."
Diane

There seems to be a vital ingredient missing in this thread: confession. How can anyone repent without first confessing his shortcomings?

Roadsign you didn't scroll down far enough, look at my last entry. kdb

look at my last entry. kdb

"People who cover over their sins will not prosper.
But if they confess and forsake them,
they will receive mercy." Prov. 28:13 NLT

What can keep us from recognizing and admitting sins?
How do we know if we are covering some sins?

Diane