About at my wits end here.

I need some "Christian" advise here, I have a 33 year old daughter that has never been married raising 3 children 16,13,and 5 the father is in jail for life, she gets no child support she is in the Church now she Loves the Lord and also a Prayer partner at Church she has been forgiven and she is trying to live right now and do right. I have had burden of trying to keep her family and mine afloat. My wife and I of 34 years started over with our children because we both Love children and wasn't looking forward to an empty nest so we also have son's 17 and 12, I give my Daughter money "all" the time and she now owes me $2000.00 on one of my credit cards, $400.00 for car insurance she makes $36,000 a year at her job.

I can't relate to that and how to live off a fixed income I have worked for myself for 30 years, although I am not rich God has Blessed me with a good income to support "one" family with our needs. I hate debt I have paid off my work truck and my wife's car just to get my debt down. My wife thinks my Daughter is living high on the hog off Daddy's money and that we suffer here because me always helping out my daughter. Of course Christmas is near daughter is needing money and now Dad don't know what to do if I loan her "more" money am I being an enabler? or is it Biblical that it is my responsibility to take care of her family also?

This all has created such a burden on my heart because now my Daughter has called off Christmas here with the family "I knew this would happen" because I am refusing at this moment to loan her more money. I have Prayed about this many times and have not received an answer, I know there are others just like me out there, but I want Christian advise with maybe some scriptures to let me know what I need to do. I really hate to post my personal problems here but my heart is so heavy I almost feel like crying and will probably end up crying anyway before it's all over. I Love my Daughter and my Grand kids very much and I don't not want to see them suffer at all, but I also don't need the strife at my home that I will encounter if I loan my daughter more money, what in the world does a man do?
Thanks For Listening
Mr. Bill

Anyone's advise to you will be from human reasoning at best, regardless of their knowledge of the scripture though it may be based solely upon sripture. However, I believe there comes a time in everyones life when things truly "go south" that the question must be asked: What would Jesus do --- fix the temporal at the expense of the eternal?

AMEN x 3 !! Brother Orm!

MrBill,

I'll pray.
mamaluk
In Christ

Thank I appreciate the feedback and I knew there is no silver bullet fix here, I know the answer will come through constant Prayer, I have never known God to be early but he is never late he is always right on time. I guess I was just looking for some sort of direction here, and if I don't get any that's really ok, because that would led me to believe God has other plans, and maybe even a huge Blessing right around the corner for my daughter, or me who knows, but we can be sure of one thing God is still on the throne, And He will remember His own, Tho’ trials may press us and burdens distress us,He never will leave us alone;
Thanks
Mr. Bill

Thank I appreciate the feedback and I knew there is no silver bullet fix here, [b]I know the answer will come through constant Prayer, I have never known God to be early but he is never late he is always right on time.[/b] :-) I guess I was just looking for some sort of direction here, and if I don't get any that's really ok, because that would led me to believe God has other plans, and maybe even a huge Blessing right around the corner for my daughter, or me who knows,[b] but we can be sure of one thing God is still on the throne, And He will remember His own, Tho’ trials may press us and burdens distress us,He never will leave us alone;[/b]

Now this really blesses my heart, you will be mighty fine, and I'll pray that whatever God's guidance turns out to be, it will be as clear as His Light.

Thank[i][b]you[/b][/i] , MrBill

Hi Mr.Bill...

I will certainly lift this matter in prayer.

Have you considered simply telling your daughter everything that you have told us? If you explain your situation and feelings in an open, honest and logical manner -- then she might be able to better understand the dilemma that she is causing in your life.

I know that this is not a "solution," but it has always helped that my parents were great at explaining "truth and consequences." I didn't always act according to what they told me, but I understood what their perspective was and the reason behind it. Eventually, it helped to shape me much more than I was willing to admit.

Regardless, I will be praying for you and your family. May the Lord grant you the wisdom for dealing with this issue!

:-)

hi mr. bill,

thankyou for sharing your heart. i really understand the brokeness your going thru. families are more harder to handle.

please know that i am not saying that you should do the same, or that you are in the same position i was, but just sharing my testimony incase it helps any.

the Lord wanted me to draw back with my family because i was in the way in what the Spirit wanted to do. He wanted to break them, and i was always interfering by trying to bring comfort when they really need to be broken in order to learn to depend on God , and not me. when i finally obeyed God, and drew back some, it was tough, i went thru a lot of persecution. they got really mad at me and try to put all sorts of guilt trips on me, saying i'm not a christian because i didn't help them all the time. even though it was hard, i aslo felt peace at the same time knowing i obeyed God, and not man.

God, taught me a lot thru my family. i played a lot of favortism with them and because of that it cause me to give them their wants and not their needs. it also cause me to fret and have an unhealthy worry about their lives that i was always bothering them making sure that everything was o.k.. i really needed to learn to mind my own buisiness just like what the word says.

i was also accuse of not loving my family because i did not give into them all the time, they just don't understand the love of Christ and i knew that my love would be misunderstood, because the love of God is not like the world. doesn't it seem that His love does get misunderstood a lot of time, until later people realize that, yeah, that person really did love me more than others who just gave me my wants?

i know i love them more than anyone. to realize how much i had crippled them, causing them to look to me instead of Christ, broke my heart. i realize that was not true love, it was not trusting in God for their souls. the Lord showed me how i was trying to be the savior to my family and thats why i was at my wits end. you know when you are trying to be the savior when your relationship in the Lord is dry because you've been too worried about other people's lives.

i've learned you get into a lot of trouble getting into other peoples buisiness, and giving advice that you were not called to give. it also cause me to fear man above God.

my concern is her attitude towards you when you told her no. its not very Christ like to get upset, and then cancel the whole xmas family get together. she sounds a bit spoiled.

sometimes helping hinders in what God wants others to go thru. we could be in the way of the Holy Spirit work when we are always their getting them out of every trial, and always giving them their wants.

yes,i agree with others to seek God on this.

i will be praying for you and your family.

God bless,
lisa

This is why God led me here to post this as hard as it was, you "all" have Blessed me so much with your hearts and also the testimonies here. I guess we all can so easily get caught up in the Love for our families we often forget God just may trying to be work here, this is what I have done, and God working here through you have confirmed this, this also confirms I myself am still work in progress, and that is a good thing to know God is still working in my life, not just good but an awesome feeling.
Thanks Bill

Mr. Bill,

Your daughter is emotionally blackmailing you by withholding herself and your grandchildren until you send the check. I say you call her bluff. She is probably convinced you will crack and send some money. And if you do you will pay the price at home with your wife.

This sounds like a complicated situation. It is not your responsiblity to provide "Christmas" to her and her kids. If you have to use the credit card to give her the money, then you shouldn't do it.

You know what the right thing to do is. But you don't want to do it, because you don't want to let your daughter down. She has to stand on her own two feet.

God Bless You!

Murray

I believe the right thing to do here is the hardest thing to do. DO NOT GIVE HER THE MONEY. She needs to depend on her heavenly Father more than her earthly father. You might be in the way sir.

I didn't FULLY depend on God until I was at the end of myself in life. It's not going to be easy brother. Pray without ceasing.

(PS - this is not scriptural but just my own opinion)

Santana wrote:
It's not going to be easy brother. Pray without ceasing.

(PS - this is not scriptural but just my own opinion)

Yes "at the moment" this appears to be a no win situation for either of us, but I know God already knows the outcome, In this old clay body it sure is hard at times like these and I have to admit my heart is hurting, but God won't let that last long I don't think before he speaks to my daughter about her attitude and I am believing she "will" have a change of heart. I have a buddy that has never wanted kids he is now 59 and very lonely, so I don't know which is better, to have or not to have, but my kids have strengthened my relationship with the Lord, and they have really been a Blessing to my whole life and at 55 I would still have another one if my wife was able this is how much we Love kids, is there something wrong with us? or is the normal for a child of God to think like?

bartle wrote:
Please forgive my audacity as to give you, an older man, my "advice", as I am a broken vessel, flawed and cracked. But I know this, money and needy family members can be a toxic brew, you have to be straight and firm, but the little ones do so love to recieve presents on Christmas.
In Jesus love, neil

As for as I know God can and will use anyone, age is irrelevant to God. "money and needy family members can be a toxic brew", your sure hit the nail square on the head here I have personally found this out. I guess sometimes you can compare giving money to someone for a long time like giving drugs to a drug head, he will mow you yard,wash your car, clean your house as long as you keep the drugs coming but cut them off and now there ready to kill you.

I don't feel as if my daughter wants to kill me but to me with her actions, I feel as though she may as well have said it. You know bottom line it's my fault for ever getting this all started giving her money, but what is a family member supposed to do when someone's hungry like she was when I first started helping many years ago, but when she got a her feet a little I should have cut her off but I did not, it got to be a habit and I never looked at it as being a bad habit but looking back now I think it was.

I told her this morning that I have laid this at the Cross, that is all I know how to do with something this sensitive because I sure can't think of anything better to do, that will give all of us a better peace within, we all just need to let go and let God, was my advise to her and hopefully she will see it that way also.

Mr. Bill, really appreciate the post! Thanks for your transparency and desire for council! After thinking about this I found scriptures for both sides.

Scripture for stopping the funds:
Rev 3:19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

Scripture for keeping it up:
Luke 6:30, 34-35 "Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again...And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful."

Either way:
Gal. 6:9 "And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."

Hope that doesn't coufound things for you. I'd have to say that I agree with other posts. I know this isn't conforting, but you didn't get your daughter into the situation she is in. I applaud you for helping her, but it sounds like she is really taking advantage of you. To charge $2000 on a card is very excessive. I'm not sure I've ever had a balance come close to that. Also, for my NEEDS it wouldn't take anywhere near that figure to pay for it. It's lots easier to spend money you didn't earn! Or should I say blow money you didn't earn. I really don't know the situation, and am not trying to slander your daughter.

Again, I applaud you for helping, but it doesn't sound like she's really that much in need. I reject the idea that you can't live on $36,000 a year. Yes, you can. I take home about the same amount and my wife stays home and schools our 4 children (among other things). I am currently paying loads of money on my mortgage, which I'll have payed off in the spring (Lord willing). It took 7 years to pay it off. Upon that I am remodeling my home and have spend a load on that. I have the same bills as everyone else and still have the ability to save, and all that on what your daughter makes. In the western world, we think we need so many things to live, when in reality, we don't! Our appetites make us a slave, and we become a servant or bondsman to our things, wants and desires. I believe this is why Jesus gave such hard advice to the rich young ruler--his money was an idol and security. So, I believe there is definitely blessing in going without (our wants that is).

Thanks again for the post and may our Lord bless you with guidance in this time of difficulty and conflict!

NLONG wrote:

I reject the idea that you can't live on $36,000 a year. Yes, you can. I take home about the same amount and my wife stays home and schools our 4 children (among other things). I am currently paying loads of money on my mortgage, which I'll have payed off in the spring (Lord willing). It took 7 years to pay it off.

Wow! If you accomplished this living there in Elkhart Co., IN that is quite some accomplishment!

Good for you!

ginnyrose

Will likely ruffle a few more brows here but want to lift up something from someone here who I do not always agree with;

Anyone's advise to you will be from human reasoning at best, regardless of their knowledge of the scripture though it may be based solely upon sripture. However, I believe there comes a time in everyones life when things truly "go south" that the question must be asked: What would Jesus do --- fix the temporal at the expense of the eternal?

Would God have you interfere with what He may be trying accomplish, if indeed that is what He is tryng to do? --- and I always believe that is the case.

May God give you His wisdom and strength in this,

Two points. One, that disagreeing need not be on the personal level and that is the primary problem that gets us all out of sorts.

Secondly, that this statement is well worth truly pondering; "Would God have you interfere ..." ?

Bill, an example of this has sat entrenched for a long while now from Oswald Chambers. It hit's home by way of similarity to your situation with it's comparisons but stops short of injecting particulars. For what it is worth, it is in opposition to a great deal of this counsel given here and often strikes me deeply because it is in opposition to what "I think" ought to be done just as well;

[i]Chambers possessed a rare capacity to trust matters to God in prayer and wait for Him to move. When one student informed Chambers that the couple hired to cook and clean were stealing supplies, he decided not to confront them, but to ask God to convict them.

The loss of food and linens continued for several weeks until one day the man came to Chambers, deeply guilty and sorrowful, to confess his thefts. “I’ve known about it all along,” Oswald told him, “but we wanted to wait until God’s Spirit spoke to you.” The man was astounded, and both he and his wife came to a personal faith in Jesus Christ.

In another case, Chambers might have acted differently. He often said, “You cannot tie God down to a particular line. Get to know how God deals with you and how he deals with others through you in the most practical way.”[/i]

Oswald Chambers
[i]Abandoned to God.[/i]

Brother, you would be astounded if I told you some of things in the financial realm that would make me quite the fool in the eyes of some of this counsel.

We can have a measured outcome with our practical applications and natural wisdom that outright denies just plain obedience. Ormly touched on it succinctly, Chambers as well. The possibility exists that the extreme opposite may be what is necessary .. a lavishing on the order of Mary in John 12:3. Or the seemingly opposing viewpoint derived from,

Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

I am sorry, this matter of presuming and measuring outcome is still bothersome and is eking out all over the place. Something of a twisted gnosis that has penetrated and caused us to do that which is the exact opposite of;

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Even the possibilities mentioned above are but worthless if not put under this scrutiny.

the couple hired to cook and clean were stealing supplies, he decided not to confront them, but to ask God to convict them.

lean not unto thine own understanding.

We cannot deny the fact that the Bible has a lot to say or infer, also, about chronic financial dependencies. There is a place for it and a place not for it. God has given us some helpful instruction for avoiding the formation of a welfare mindset. (I believe this was a factor in the fall of the Roman Empire.)

In our socialistic society many are dependent of the government, and that mindset has leaked into other institutions - like family. It sure doesn't do much for faith and maturity. Nor is it always healthy for relationships. And once firmly established, it is hard to break free from.

While it may seem better to go along with this, and hope that the dependent child will "see the light", God just might, at some point, have something else in mind - for the sake of spiriutal growth. And where HE directs, he will also enable.

Bill, it is most reassuring to know that you desire to follow the guidance of your Master.

You probably are already familiar with the Christian book:

Boundaries
When to say YES
When to say NO, by Cloud/Townsend.

The general theme of the book is about ownership - knowing where we begin and another person ends. We must not be owned by another human being, and must be set free so that we can belong first and formost to the Lord. Only then are we all free to take personal responsibility for our choices. Those choices will also be the best for those we love - in the long run.

I believe that the apostle Paul is a good example. "Though I am free, and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone to win as many as possible." 1 Cor. 9:19 Paul was not owned by any man, yet he submitted for THE SAKE OF THE KINGDOM.

Jesus never let others control him. Yet he WILLINGLY chose to lay down his life FOR THE SAKE OF THE KINGDOM (not man's selfish desire). There is a big difference. Learning how to live in this kind of freedom is just where God aims to lead us.

You may be at your wits end, but I suspect that you are at the beginning of a very exciting adventure with God. Go for it, brother!

Diane

All you guys have been so wonderful in your responses and believe me everyone's help is so precious to me, it's been a really hard week for me Daughter hasn't even called me I had to pick up the phone last night when I got in from work just to call and talk to my Grand daughter just to see what was going on, my grand daughter told me the my daughter was at Church "on a Friday night?" I did not understand but it was none of my business.

I know what is going on she used to come over Preaching to her Mom and I and sometimes telling us there were some changes we needed to make with her Two Brothers Chris and Daniel like keep Chris off the computer less TV and more of this and that, maybe she needs to be preaching into the mirror. Isn't it really crazy how someone as strong as my daughter is supposed to be in her faith and how close she say's she is to God now and how she is so involved in the Church and she is doing her Dad this way, I wonder if she is telling anyone about her faults?

I Love my daughter and I am hurt so if I say something here that might be a little out of line I am sorry maybe just venting a little also, and this is probably not really Christ like on my part I am sorry. I "will" get over this with time just like a bruise it takes time to heal. I will heal but this healing period is hard and I know there is a lesson here for me and I know God has a message here for me and he will help me, but I can tell you right now at this very moment I feel like a lost sheep and very sad, I don't handle this stuff very well "I don't know how many Dads would" but we all have our weaknesses even us Christians.

I want all of you to know I am not looking for opinions or advise that I might want to hear to make me feel better or justify my actions and you all have been so well with yours, thanks so very much! this did not come to stay it came to pass, and pass it will but I just must learn like someone said earlier no to lean on my own understanding or I will be nuts in a week, I must learn to trust God here and try my best to place this "totally" in his hands.
Thanks Guys.
Mr. Bill

Bill,

I have been reading this thread...my heart goes out to you...wanting to do the right thing and not knowing what that is but wishing someone could just tell you....then the problem is how can I tell this is the right thing? Is it when it resonates with my spirit? Likely, but there are emotions involved which do get in the way at times. How do I know? We, too, have children who are faithful to God and those who are doing it their own way....

All I can say is that God will allow us to experience these vexing thigs to teach us more on how to pull back and allow Him to do the work and not us play GOD. Will we ever learn to not do this? How can I tell when I am trying to play God? And we do not want to interfere in the process of God's working in the life of the child. THIS is what scares me! Really! How often do our well-meaning actions actually interfere in this process? I am learning to say what needs to be said and then pull back and not argue the point...this is very contrary to my natural nature. So, God is using this to help change me from glory to glory....a trying process to say the least.

A story: when son #2 was causing us a lot of grief by his rebellion, I questioned deeply where we had gone wrong in our teaching. The conventional wisdom was that if you taught your child well, have his faith in you, then when he comes to the age of accountability, he will then transfer this faith to God. One day as I was deeply grieved in my spirit and questioning myself and God, God spoke to me, so loud and clear. I was standing in front of my clothes washer, tending to it...God said "You let me be God and you be mom!" Brother, this comforted me so much! YES! I can and will be mom and will back off from trying to be God! Now this does not mean I will relinquish my concern and voice these to my son, but the intense pressure to conform will not be there. That is God's job. PTL! In the meantime, I will continue my interest in his welfare and keep pleading with God to hurry up!:-x

Blessings to you and your family....

ginnyrose