Entire Sanctification...Really?

I grew up going to a Nazarene church. I was saved many miles from home while not attending any church. Upon returning to my hometown, I began meeting with this pastor to ask questions and the like. I was a new Christian and was eager to learn, having already felt the calling to ministry. I knew next to nothing about any doctrine and he told me he had not sinned in twenty-some years and that I was going to hell if I did. That was it. He did NOT sin.

This man was, and is, not perfect. It seems to me that he redefined sin. Going by this “new” definition it is easy for him to say he has no sin, but most people see it differently.

His teaching of “Sinless Perfection” contains a state that is impossible to achieve. I stopped going to this church after only a few meetings with him, and now, some years later, have only recently started to investigate entire sanctification, due to a spark of interest that occurred while studying church history and John Wesley.

I currently attend a church with a few grace as a license to sin types that say “its ok, we all fall short” all the time.

It would seem that both sides are not truly seeing the sinfulness of sin, and what a horrendous thing it is. One side embraces it as no big deal, while the other simply repackages it so they cannot see it; effectively hiding it from themselves ,and getting them out of having to deal with it.

Holiness is oh so important !

If the article I am giving a link to holds water then…I…well…

I really would appreciate having some input by some of you that have a more thorough understanding of this “entire sanctification” thing.

I hunger and thirst for righteousness. I long for holiness.

Please read the entire article. He quotes Brennan Manning, and that raised a flag, but the article has some points and explanations I had not heard before and they really have me thinking.

Please let me have your opinions on this subject, but especially this description.

http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/entire.htm

I will be working alot in the next few days, starting tonight, but will try to check in.

God bless you all

TJ

Hello Travis,

When I was growing up, I spent some of my time going to a holiness church and heard much about "entire sanctification." Quite honestly I rejected it for a whole host of reasons, the primary thing in retrospective this many years later was my own rebellion. I considered it anti-intellectual and unscriptural both assertions which have been proven by the Holy Spirit to my satisfaction to be false.

I have spent most of 2006 earnestly seeking this experience and have read many of the holiness classics on the topic. One of my favorite books is entitled "Perfect Love" by a wonderful man of God named J.A. Wood. It's in an easy to read format here: [url=http://www.raptureready.com/resource/wood/wood.html]Perfect Love[/url].

I read the article you cited and it explains the doctrine reasonably well but it doesn't explain how to enter into it. I saw the reference to Brennan Manning his experience doesn't equate to entire sanctification in my mind. I have hundreds of accounts of the experience, particularly by the saints of old and was blessed to receive a first edition copy of a little book called "Holy Ann -An Irish Saint and many others.

If you're interesting in reading some of the testimonies go to [url=http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.htm]Wesley Center Online[/url] and go to the Holiness Classics Library (you'll need to sign up) and go to "How They Entered Canaan." You can also go to [url=www.enterhisrest.org]Enter His Rest[/url].

There was a great holiness preacher and teacher named A.M. Hills and some of his articles are on SI. There are some very good articles here: [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=499]Aaron (A.M.) Hills[/url].

I have a very straight and convicting article penned by Catherine Booth that I'm going to send you via email.

I have not yet come into that place yet but from what I have seen is those saints that I know who are sanctified have a singlemindedness for Jesus and it's not a fixation on sinless perfection. Here's how J.A. Wood explained "entire sanctification:"

19. What is entire sanctification or Christian perfection?

Negatively, it is that state of grace which excludes all sin from the heart. Positively, it is the possession of pure love to God. "Blessed are the pure in heart." "The blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanseth us from all sin." "Love is the fulfilling of the law." "The end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart." In the grace of justification, sins, as acts of transgression, are pardoned. In the grace of sanctification, sin, as a malady, is removed, so that the heart is pure. In the nature of the case, the eradication of sin in principle from the human heart completes the Christian character. When guilt is forgiven in justification, and all pollution is removed in entire sanctification, so that grace possesses the heart and nothing contrary to grace, then the moral condition is reached to which the Scriptures give the name of perfection, or entire sanctification. Though the leading writers of our Church define this gracious state in different phraseology, there is an essential agreement among them; their disagreements are more in infelicities of expression than in real differences, and more speculative than fundamental. Their essential agreement will be seen in the following quotations:

Here's a question and answer by John Wesley that I believe is relevant to your question:

Q. 11. But if all this be consistent with Christian perfection, that perfection is not freedom from all sin; seeing sin is the transgression of the law:' And the perfect transgress the very law they are under. Besides, they need the atonement of Christ; and he is the atonement of nothing but sin. Is, then, the term sinless perfection, proper?

"A. It is not worth disputing about. But observe in what sense the persons in question need the atonement of Christ. They do not need him to reconcile them to God afresh; for they are reconciled. They do not need him to restore the favour of God, but to continue it. He does not procure pardon for them anew, but `ever liveth to make intercession for them;' and `by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.' (Heb. 10:14.)

"For want of duly considering this, some deny that they need the atonement of Christ. Indeed, exceeding few; I do not remember to have found five of them in England. Of the two, I would sooner give up perfection; but we need not give up either one or the other. The perfection I hold, `Love rejoicing evermore, praying without ceasing, and in everything giving thanks,' is well consistent with it; if any hold a perfection which is not, they must look to it.

Hopefully I haven't given you too much information but feel free to send me a message if you have questions. Remember justification is by faith and sanctification is also by faith alone. We never earn anything from God but He has made provision through his precious blood to be free from the power of sin.

Our fellowship has a little radio broadcast and we played this song yesterday that recorded by the Kingsmen back in the 60s used the melody from old country song that Jim Reaves recorded, which is entitled "Please Release Me From My Sin:"

Please release me from my sin
Welcome Jesus come on in
For anly you can cleanse my soul
Release me from sin to sin no more

Let me walk on sacred ground
And lead the lost ship that you found
Just lead me on through heaven's door
Release me from sin to sin no more

Send your spirit from above
And teach me your sweet ways of love
I seek for all you have in store
Release me from sin to sin no more

Please release me from my sin...
Release me from sin to sin no more

Negatively, it is that state of grace which excludes all sin from the heart.

Are we speaking of a work of God which has 'shut out' the possibility of a single transgression from the heart or of the removal of the nature of Sin? I presume we are speaking about the latter.

Robert Barclay, the Quaker apologist, seemed to believe that George Fox had 'attained' a state of grace in which it was impossible for him to fall. Barclay was quick to say that he did not believe he himself (ie Barclay) had attained such a state.

I had a godly friend whose preaching was so absolute that many thought he was claiming a position similar to that of Fox but in his own thinking he always distinguished between the herald and the pastor. "God" he used to say "only commands what is perfect, but in some circumstances He may permit what is imperfect." As a 'herald' he would declare the absolutes of the gospel and the work of regeneration, as a 'pastor' he would spend long hours praying and encouraging saints who had fallen.

T. J.
The Nazarine Church that I attended did not practice entire Sanctification.
Someone told me the locked up the Books on Sanctification, and would not let their Members read them.
Entire Sanctification is in a small part, you are one with Jesus and you know Him in such a way that you've never known Him before.
You just do His bidding, and He reveals Himself to you. You fellowship with Him, and the majority of the Christian World thinks you are crazy, because you stay in continuious Peace and Grace.
I have been entirely sanctified, but let the cares of this life, the fear of man, and my own negligence take me away from His Presence.

We have to keep reading the Word, Praying, and just let Him know we love Him more than anyone.
I know God is going to sanctify me again, because I am searching for this sweet fellowship with my Saviour.
There isn't one word that could ever describe it, but it is over-whelming Love Of God.
God Bless you.
Keep asking, and seeking.
Nellie

It usually comes with a Crisis.
I know that I was in the Spirit and God told me to sing a Song at our Church, "Let me Touch Him."
The Pastor humiliated me in front of the whole Choir, and when I got Home that night, I prayed to die, I was so hurt.
I remember crying so hard that it seemed I would never stop.
I told my Husband that God was going to bring something good out of the situation.
I went and talked with the Pastor, and he told me that only a Man could sing that Song.
I finally told him to just let someone sing it in the Church.
He sang it.
I know that God wanted me to do the Song, but was blessed when it was sung.
In my whole life, I have never been as hurt as I was then.
God poured oil on my wounds.

I wasn't trying to usurp authority over the Pastor, but I was wanting to obey God.

Entire Sanctification is possible, Brother, and I pray He will Sanctify you Wholly.

It is God that worketh in us, both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phil 2:13

Ron said

"Are we speaking of a work of God which has 'shut out' the possibility of a single transgression from the heart or of the removal of the nature of Sin? I presume we are speaking about the latter."

From those I've known who have entered into this experience, the joy of the Lord has been palpable and unescapable. They're not proud but humble because sanctification is God's work, not man's. We can't earn it. It comes by faith alone, not by works.

Here's a quote from Reverend J.A. Wood's book entitled "Perfect Love:"

27. Do you teach a sinless perfection?

Our answer must be according to what is meant by "sinless perfection;" which is a term we never use in teaching Christian perfection.

1. If by sinless perfection be meant infallibility, or a state in which the soul cannot sin, we answer, No. We believe in no such perfection in this life; and further, we know of no one who teaches any such thing, although has been asserted over and over, thousands of times, by the opposers of Christian perfection.

2. If by this term be meant, a perfect fulfillment of the Paradisiacal law of innocence, and freedom from all voluntary transgressions of the law of love, we answer, No. Mr. Wesley says: "Therefore sinless perfection is phrase I never use, lest I should seem to contradict myself. I believe a person filled with the love of God still liable to these involuntary transgressions. Such transgressions you may call sins, if you please; I do not." Plain Account, p. 67

3. If by this phrase be meant, a perfect observance of the evangelical law of love, so as to love God with all the heart, soul, and strength, we answer, by the grace of God, Yes. See Deut. xxx. 6.

4. If it be meant a moral condition, in which the soul has no disposition to sin, and will not sin, and by the grace of God is kept from sinning, we answer Yes, to the glory and praise of God.

5. If this question means, does God fully pardon all our sinful acts and absolve us from all guilt, and does He entirely cleanse the soul from a sinful state, so that it becomes pure, or entirely free from sinful proclivities we answer, Yes.

28. Does Christian Perfection exclude a need of the atonement?

No; not for a moment. All Christian life is in Christ, and is dependent upon Him, as the branch upon the vine. "I am the vine, ye are the branches. -- Without me ye can do nothing." The pure in heart abide it Christ, by a continuous faith, which is the vital bond of union with him. Sever this connection, and the spiritual life of the soul ceases at once. Christ does not give life to the soul separate from, but in and with himself.

Purity of heart sharpens the spiritual vision and secures steady and unbroken reliance upon the atonement; hence, those cleansed from all sin, in the fullest sense "live by faith on the Son of God." None see their need of the atonement so clearly, or feel their need of its merits so deeply, as the entirely sanctified. He, more than any other man, feels, --

"Every moment, Lord, I need The merit of thy death."

It requires the same power to sustain creation, it did to produce it; so, it requires the same Jesus who cleansed the soul, to keep it clean. Cleansing grace is keeping grace, and is retained, as it was obtained, by faith. In Christ they are, and in Christ they must abide. Their only danger is in apostasy. "According to your faith be it unto you," is the divine order in keeping as well as in receiving grace. "Who are kept by the power God through faith unto salvation."

Dr. Clarke observes: "What is it that cleanseth the soul and destroys sin? Is it not the mighty power of the grace of God? What is it that keeps the soul clean? Is it not the same power dwelling in us? No more can an effect subsist without its use, than a sanctified soul abide in holiness without the indwelling Sanctifier." -- Clarke's Theology, p. 187.

Mr. Fletcher says: "To say that the doctrine of Christian perfection supersedes the need of Christ's blood, is not less absurd than to assert that the perfection of navigation renders the great deep a useless reservoir of water." -- Last Check, p. 574.

Praise Jesus!!!

tjservant wrote:

I hunger and thirst for righteousness. I long for holiness.

Mt 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.

Love your desire and thirst for truth.

Read John Wesleys "Marks of the new birth" If you cant locate it pm me. And please keep posting even on (do not judge)

Hisservant rich

Matthew 4:17

Wesley is pretty unique in this doctrine. Personally I don't believe we can achieve glorification (or perfection) here on earth. Still it gives no liscense to living in sin (in case that's not clear).

2 Corinthians 1:10
who delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver us; in whom we trust that He will still deliver us,

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the LORD.”

1 Peter 1:2
2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Philippians 1:6
6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

[url=http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/bbwentire.htm]BB Warfield on entire sanctification.[/url]

[url=http://www.peacemakers.net/unity/joholyspirit15.htm]John Owen on Entire Sacnctification HERE.[/url]

[url=http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/topic/sanctification.html]More on Sanctification at Monergism.org HERE![/url]

2 Peter 3:17,18; 2 Thessalonians. 1:3; Colossians 2:19

BB Warfield on entire sanctification.

John Owen on Entire Sacnctification HERE.

More on Sanctification at Monergism.org HERE!

Pretty one sided if you ask me... All those authors believed in 'Indwelling sin' and never believed that they could get free from sin.

They believed the nature of man and his flesh is sin... and that is just not biblical.

Entire Sanctity is a privilege and the responsibility of every believer HERE on this earth...

Entire Sanctity is a privilege and the responsibility of every believer HERE on this earth...

How many here on SermonIndex have attained this state of Christian perfection?
If you have, when is the last time you sinned?

JaySaved wrote:

Entire Sanctity is a privilege and the responsibility of every believer HERE on this earth...

How many here on SermonIndex have attained this state of Christian perfection?
If you have, when is the last time you sinned?

Are you asking this in sincerity or will you use this against the doctrine? Because whether or nat anybody on this site has achieved it or not does not matter nor does it deny or refute the doctrine of Christian Perfection.

I would answer your question the same way Wesley answered his critics about whether or not he knew if any people had attained such a state...

"Q. Can you show one such example now? Where is he that is thus perfect?

"A. To some that make this inquiry one might answer, If I knew one here, I would not tell you; for you do not inquire out of love. You are like Herod; you only seek the young child to slay it.

"But more directly we answer: There are many reasons why there should be few, if any, indisputable examples. What inconveniences would this bring on the person himself, set as a mark for all to shoot at! And how unprofitable would it be to gainsayers! 'For if they hear not Moses and the Prophets,' Christ and his Apostles, 'neither would they be persuaded though one rose from the dead.'

Pretty one sided if you ask me... All those authors believed in 'Indwelling sin' and never believed that they could get free from sin.

2 Corinthians 1:10
who delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver us; in whom we trust that He will still deliver us,

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the LORD.”

1 Peter 1:2
2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Philippians 1:6
6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

Colossians 2:19
19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

I think that the negitive effect of this doctrine is the self-righteousness men twist it to be. It gets bad when preachers go out proclaiming thier own righteousness.

Even IF this was true- how much would it matter?

EVEN IF we have "truly righteous" acts now and then we must still continue in the faith until glorification.

_________________________________________
Do Christians Sin?

I agree that God doesn't take away our ability to obey as christians, yet we've all disobeyed regaurdless.

1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

2 Corinthians 1:10
who delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver us; in whom we trust that He will still deliver us,

Romans 6:5-14
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

The idea that sanctification is a liscence to sin is ridiculous...

1 John 3:6
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 1:6
If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

Point is if you live in sin you are lost. Now if falling in to sin means you are lost then we're all lost because I'm sure you've fallen into sin being saved. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that christians are sanctified after conversion. If you say you haven't sinned since conversion then consider God's standard.

Rejoice always
Do all to God's glory
Looking with lust (Mat 5)
Being angry in your heart (Mat 5)
Giving thanks in all things
Doing all from faith
No complaining
Perfection
Loving God with all you heart mind and strength
Puting God first

I know God gives us ability to do these things but I haven't found a single person who does not sin at all like Jesus. Point being there is no licsence to sin here: If someone takes it that way they have no desire to uphold righteousness and I believe are lost. A christian loves what is good. Also, if a professing christian is not living in righteousness you can be sure that he is lost.

1 John 2:3-4
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I agree that righteousness is not something we ourselves conjure up, but God does. Righteousness flows from a redeemed heart. Without fruit there is no salvation. I'm not saying that we have a "sin nature" but that we fight against our flesh. If there is a pattern of sin in our lives and we walk in darkness we're lost.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

1 Peter 2:11
Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,

But if we live and walk in the flesh...

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" Do I seek to stop sinning or have I stopped sinning? To be born of God means that I have the supernatural power of God to stop sinning.

You have the power to stop but you still have your flesh. Its not either or its both. When you become a christian you seek to stop sinning and stop sinning (as a practice of sin). But you may still fall into sin. This doesn't mean that you are lost. That should not excite a christian because christians hate sin. We should desire to be totally pure.

Here is a quote from weslyan theology:

We believe that after we have experienced regeneration, it is possible to fall into sin, for in this life there is no such height or strength of holiness from which it is impossible to fall. But by the grace of God one who has fallen into sin may by true repentance and faith find forgiveness and restoration.

This is why we wait eagerly to be in heaven: God will be there and we won't sin anymore!!!

The writings on monergism.org are reformed- they are biblical.

Once again that is one sided...if you are a Calvinist they are biblical... ;-)

I think that the negitive effect of this doctrine is the self-righteousness men twist it to be. It gets bad when preachers go out proclaiming thier own righteousness.

Men who are truly holy do not get self-righteous. Some men might, but once againt that does not refute the argument.

Men that think they are justified or regenerate when they are not, do not refute or dismantle the argument that justification and regenretion are actual pure doctrines and very possible to attain and experience.

Also,

When a man repents and gets saved, his repentance consists in turning for self-righteousness, to trust Christ's righteousness not his own.

Christ Righteousness, imputed righteousness is the very reason our Sanctification is accepted. There is no need to toss away Christ's righteousness, it actually becomes the saints actual righteousness by impartation.

I am sure you know about imputed and imparted righteousness right?

So if Christ's imputed righteousness is perfect, why not also His imparted?

This automatically replies 'Entire Sanctity' of spirit, soul, and body, throughout the whole man.

I understand those who say that those who claim they're sanctified are self-righteous. I'm sure that Wesley and others would agree. There's nothing more odoriferous than a self-righteousness spirit. Self-righteousness is a cheap substitute for entire sanctification and makes it an achievement of the flesh. It does not draw the heart to Jesus.

Two of my dearest brethren, a husband and faith, who have entered into this were told by the Holy Spirit to make cookies and some other goodies for a young Buddhist man. This young man, whom my brother and sister have been witnessing to this young man for some time, broke down in tears and said I love you and your husband. There's a supernatural drawing of people's heart to the heart of Jesus. I've read countless examples of similar type experiences but wanted to recount a more contemporary one.

I believe that sanctification is by faith, not by works as did Wesley and others. It's not something that can simply be intellectualized, it has to be walked out.

In Wesley's sermon 89 entitled "The More Excellent Way" he said this:

From long experience and observation I am inclined to think, that whoever finds redemption in the blood of Jesus, whoever is justified, has then the choice of walking in the higher or the lower path. I believe the Holy Spirit at that time sets before him "the more excellent way," and incites him to walk therein, to choose the narrowest path in the narrow way, to aspire after the heights and depths of holiness, -- after the entire image of God. But if he does not accept this offer, he insensibly declines into the lower order of Christians. He still goes on in what may be called a good way, serving God in his degree, and finds mercy in the close of life, through the blood of the covenant. I would be far from quenching the smoking flax, -- from discouraging those that serve God in a low degree. But I could not wish them to stop here: I would encourage them to come up higher, without thundering hell and damnation in their ears, without condemning the way wherein they were, telling them it is the way that leads to destruction, I will endeavour to point out to them what is in every respect "a more excellent way."

There are many other than the Wesleys, who have taught and believed in "entire sanctification" although they may not have used the exact same terminology. Here's a few brothers and sisters that come to mind that I've read over the last year that believed and walked this out: John and Charles Wesley, John Fletcher, Adam Clarke, Matthew Henry, Smith Wigglesworth, William and Catherine Booth, William Seymour, Duncan Campbell, Rees Howell, G.C. Bevington, Phoebe Palmer, and many others.

What ensued in these lives as I've looked at them closely is that as they entered into this experience great revivals ensued. I'm presently reading an autobiography by J.A. Wood, the delightful author of "Perfect Love."

I believe that sanctification is by faith, not by works as did Wesley and others. It's not something that can simply be intellectualized, it has to be walked out.

Wesley never believed that Sanctification was by works, you have misread him sir.

I would recommend you to read 'Plain Account of Christian Perfection' and 'Checks Against Antinomianism; by John Fletcher. Both reaffirm the idea that Sanctification is faith alone.

But nevertheless you are right about it needed to walked out. Holiness must be preached by a holy life.

Amen, death to self.
God Bless
Nell