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Woman should not teach men.

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DoulosQuinn Dec 23, 2006

We must not use our feelings, experience, opinions or our heart that is deceitful. (Jer 17:9) We must rely upon the WORD that reveals GOD's love and salvation. HE directs every guideline by love to protect us, as if HE was saying "...don't hurt yourself, don't hurt yourself..." We must listen to our Father who inspired “…But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence…” 1Timothy 2:12 and the verses around it. “…Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” GOD reveals that there is a fundamental reason that goes back to The fall, and being born in the 21st century, knowing GOD’s WORD, being wise, being skilled, being the daughter of Billy Graham, or Chuck Smith does not negate HIS warning.

people say
“…I have seen the amazing ways that the Lord has used many women (who at first I dismissed) in incredible ways.”

We cannot honestly even assess what we see as “good” by our understanding which falls short of perfect evaluation? Further more what of those that shrug off the WORD can they truly succeed in anything? Paul addresses whether we can do good by doing evil? (READ Romans 3:8) When we think that we can diminish one part GOD’s WORD that we don't understand or have failed to receive, the rest is compromised. This will diminish at least in our mind the incorruptibility of an unshakable hope found only in the whole counsel or “intention” of GOD's WORD. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isa 55:9 or "Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvelous things without number:" Job 5:9

people say: "...look at the life of Jesus and how much he did to change the view and way that women were treated within that society you have to wonder…”

HE did clear up that women are co-heirs of Salvation, and that man & woman bear the image of GOD, that they have responsibilities, and strengths that are unique. But HE did not change HIS mind on where they are to remain in the order that HE created. HE is so good to take away Satan's lie that “GOD has put an oppressive roll or burden on us.” HE sets free those that have been seduced by a pagan culture that forsakes the joy, and peace which come with HIS HOLY presence. Truly HE is best perceived as we honor our MAKER as being Just and True in all HIS ways.

Lets also be honest about men and women, look at our culture today, and how being “liberated” to search for what we think is best has impacted our society. When men or women approach one another there is always the selfish nature that is covered up one way or another. They are not buzzing around to pollinate flowers sister! Interacting between men & women would benefit from prudence that was scoffed out of practice years ago. No decent woman would pretend that walking around in a bikini 60yrs ago was not lewd, because even then they did not have any doubt about the ungodly nature of men and woman to lean toward sin which affects entire societies. It is such a lie to pretend that it is not an issue with acceptation to perverts, since man fell it has always been a stumbling block into carnal thinking, and carnally gained advantages.

I am grieved that a generation of preachers tip toeing around this subject of man's role, and woman’s role in the area of teaching, and authority to avoid the pressures of ignorant masses has left you to have to guess who you should be persuaded by, rather then it being fully revealed by the LIGHT of the WORD defended by men who LOVE the LORD with all their hearts, and lay down their lives for the truth. But as I see it most of our teachers have compromised addressing it clearly, and directly, leaving some of us to believe they have intended to gain unchallenged acceptance in a “liberated” generation , and win themselves wives in a backwards culture( "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. " Isaiah 3:1) Being motivated to find comfort, strength, confidence, security, even status by pursuing a mate, is being like Jacob. HE say’s “No good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly” (Psalm 84:11), yet “he that finds a wife finds a good thing” (Proverb 18:22), we see that we are to seek GOD’s approval alone, and HE does not lie. Being motivated to capture the affections of any woman commonly effeminizes some men, and drives other to find an identity of manhood in this world through Harley's, big trucks, and trophy wives, rather then being a real man like Jesus Christ who sought not HIS own, was tough enough to lay it down, and mighty enough to take it back up. “…Narrow be the way…few there be that find it.“ (Matthew 7:14)

Some women say:
“…I have been amazed at how the Lord is showing me a new and libirating way of worship to Him and live to glorify His name…”

There are no new ways to worship the LORD, there has, and will always be one way.

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever." Heb 13:8

HE said:
\t
"...the true worshipers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship HIM." (John 4:23)

there is not any reality behind "evangelical" feminism, thats a false gospel, good news is GOD perfection heals a backwards world by HIS death

As for the main issue, Jesus Christ wants us “to be one as HE and The Father are ONE,” (John 17), but “Behold how good & pleasant it is…like the oil…” can only happen as a result of not cowering away from the WORD, so as not to lose those weak in the faith. Instead I dare say we must stand firm in the WORD, and patiently reason with those who have been submitted to false principalities, we are follow HIM in "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" 2Co 10:5 Do not forget that judgment starts at the house of GOD! I am grieved to say this is an issue for the entire Body, not just men who have usurped authority beyond measure that refuse to keep accountable to the WORD before the Body (Matthew 18:17) “The Called out” is ALL of those called out not just the chief servants (pastor, elders, deacons). Fellowship should include reasoning through the doctrine of the Apostles, as well prevent disputes from being dismissible as divisive challenges of authority. That is a lazy copout of those who are not fit to contend for The Faith, rather some seek as little resistance as possible, and use authority to intimidate submission, rather then enlist faith, reason, and HOLY Spirit. Whether it is Roger Oakland addressing globalism, or John Doe Bible college student addressing perceived compromises. But the Scripture should be the beginning, and finishing authority. Especially in the genuine training of bondslaves of the MOST HIGH. As for knowing psychology has no place in the church, that the “Old Earth Theory” is disbelief, and conforming to the world is wicked. These things are evidences we need to humbly repent, not to brazenly charge on. If we are to err, prudence would be to err in caution, rather then presumption. We are called to be HOLY because our goal is to be like HIM not persist on remaining in liberties as if carnality with “fire insurance” (eternal security) is as good as it gets. HE can show us HIS glory here, and taste goodness that will even benefit us in eternity! Why pretend by resisting the HOLY Spirit that it is some kind of courageous stand against legalism? GOD is good!

B
BereanMinded Dec 24, 2006

I think you say so much it's hard for people to understand.

I agree for the most part, about the subject, but I don't think every preacher tip toes around it.

What about Debrah being a judge?

Or Aquila and Prisila teaching Apollos?

Even the the dauthers or Phillip in Acts 21:8,9 who gave prophesy?

It seems the LORD made exception, Like David with the show bread.

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DoulosQuinn Dec 24, 2006

I was really dumping in as much as I could so I could cover most aberrances from the truth. I would receive a little direction on how to clear up any hard points, or places that don't "flow" well.

Anyway thanks for responding, this forum is kind of "clickish" I have offended more people by taking stands in the WORD then I would think possible among Christians (see santa's forum), I just love the LORD and am not trying to "cut off any ears" but instead of driving into meaningful discussion, some just click together and cry foul.

Anyway you had some good questions, I had those too. I appreciate people that don't just jump on a band wagon blindly. I have answers that are suitable, but I would prefer to study up freshly and respond to each one carefully a little later.

Quinn

M
MrBillPro Dec 24, 2006


DoulosQuinn wrote:
this forum is kind of "clickish" I have offended more people by taking stands in the WORD then I would think possible among Christians

Quinn

"clickish"
a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons ; especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purposes.

Lordy,Lordy,Lordy yes it's all our fault.
Just because you think you right don't necessarily mean you are, we all have the right to voice our opinions or views without being shot down like a bird out of a tree, I don't mind listening to anyone views as long as they can "gracefully" explain them. :-)

sermonindex Dec 24, 2006

Anyway you had some good questions, I had those too. I appreciate people that don't just jump on a band wagon blindly. I have answers that are suitable, but I would prefer to study up freshly and respond to each one carefully a little later.

If your purpose in coming to the forums here is to be a self-assumed teacher and correct people then that is not a worthy purpose to be here. Almost everyone that participates in the forums desire for God to be glorified and to see the body of Christ healthy and growing in holiness (likeness to Christ). As I said before brother perhaps you need to read more then post and come to this site to grow in the Lord and not self-assumingly try to grow others. The basis of the website is the audio sermons and I would encourage you to delve into such speakers as:

Zac Poonen, Leoanrd Ravenhil, A.W. Tozer and others...

P
Peacecraft Dec 25, 2006

Quinn,
This is something I want to study more because as a woman, God has given me a great joy in evangelsim and preaching and its good to know the limits and bounds to what a woman can say and go about it in way that is holy and pleasing to God. I think we do need to really look into the context of what Paul is talking about when he speaks to the church about women. How were they behaving? Were they trying to do the men's job with a lack of wisdom? Saying that women can never teach men is a bold statement and it seems God used women when men wouldn't stand up in certian circumstances so I think it is a deeper issue to delve into. Something which I need to do myself... :-)

M
MrBillPro Dec 25, 2006


Peacecraft wrote:
God used women when men wouldn't stand up in certian circumstances so I think it is a deeper issue to delve into. Something which I need to do myself... :-)

Hey God used a woman to bring Jesus Christ into the world and he really did not have to, he could have just had him appear I am sure if he wanted to now I would say he uses women, I don't think any man has topped that yet. :-P

J
JennRich Dec 25, 2006

Mr. Quinn, I think you might be "preaching to the choir" on this site. . . I am a woman and I agree wholeheartedly that women should not teach in church (except children, or other women). . . did you hope you would offend somebody when you created this thread? It sounds like you did. . .

Actually I think women have the more "envious" position of submitting to their own husbands, and of being quiet at church. Our position is naturally more humble, and more than once the Scripture says that God gives grace to the humble. That's a precious truth to me.

Also, if we exhibit a quiet and gentle spirit, it is of great worth in the sight of God (1 Peter 3). It doesn't say that man's great leadership skills are of great worth in the sight of God . . .

I hope you have a Merry Christmas. You would love Paul Washer's sermons that are found on this site. He's right up your alley.

JennRich


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DoulosQuinn Dec 25, 2006

(SermonIndex) I did not come here to draw disciples to myself brother Greg, I think it is fair to expound, and reason through scriptures THAT is what koinania is supposed to be about "the apostles doctrine" which is Christ Yeshua. As I wrote earlier, agreeing with you! men seeking to establish their authority among the saints have no Biblical support for that "nicolatinism" The LORD hates that. So we must agree to walk together (amos 3:3), right? Behold how good it is to dwell in unity (psalm 133)? The WORD's of our LORD never perish, and are the best basis for meaningful fellowship, it the only friendship that will last. I desire to have HIS WORD being clarity, where ever the author of confusion confronts our understanding to stir us to "dig for gold" as it were. ( NOT preaching to choirs, or hoping to offend people)

[I notice all over the world today, those with the Spirit of peace, demonstrate patience, and are hopeful to encourage meaningful dialogue, while on the other hand I think I've pegged the children of disobedience who seek to draw you out by malignment then by defending yourself further accuse you, like their father. I love dialoging among Christians here though...you know?]

(JennRich) Hey I'm grateful you have not been sucked into the confusion that is so commonly prevalent in our culture (even church culture) today, like always Glory to GOD, thank you for directing me to Paul Washer for review I hope your discernment about "my alley" was GOD given...we'll see :-)

(MrBillPro) GOD uses weak things, foolish things, even me! but I would always credit the wonderful GOD we have, not credit support to rally a "battle of the sex's" Ha Ha Ha! We are all in need of The GREAT KING, utterly dependant, like a child in a manger...

(peacecraft, laura) You should research! I would suggest doing google to read articles by Paul W. Felix, or Ron Rhodes on "Evangelical Feminism", that is wisdom to not just talk an emotional stand, I really am proud of you sis, that is the stout hearted courage of Sarah (1Peter 3:5). May the LORD reveal HIS secret counsel in the matter.

(Berean Minded) Deborah was giving judgement over the nation, it people, but since we know that GOD's WORD does not contradict it self, it is fitting by GOD's Spirit you mentioned David, and the show bread, GOD made room for human need's which demonstrates HIS selfless love, The people needed a Judge, and I believe the WORD implies the men (her husband at least it seems) were to busy worrying about their own interests that she filled the role, because she was filled with the Spirit and a prophetess. Deborah ‘s husband Lapidoth which means “Torches: unto the calamities” ( JB JACKSONs DICT of Hebrew names) which I might connect to Isaiah 50:11 "Behold, all you that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your own fire, and in the sparks that you have kindled. This I will give you; that you shall shall lie down in misery." Obviously she was godly and when she rendered judgement is was GOD's wisdom making demonstrating HE anointed her specifically, which HIS ways being unsearchable I can only presume HE was very present in each case considered, and she was very very submissive, even to the point she would say "The LORD GOD of Israel commands..." (Judges 4:6) But since Barak (who is in Hebrews 11's "hero's of faith") doubted she was given greater honor. Deborah "the Judge" was honored by the nation Israel as the Deborah's wet nurse was given honor by person Israel in Genesis 35:8. Both beautiful examples of women that really trusted, and submitted to GOD. But consider this, she did not go to the gate, or stand in the midst of the assembly to give judgment or prophesy, they came to her, and where she lived. (Judges 4:5)

That principle applies to Phillip's Daughters that you sited as well, they did not prophesy in the assembly, but at Phillips house while he was present. Which is a sign that were obedient to remain silent when the saints gathered.

The last example being Pricilla the wife of Aquila, true enough she clearly assisted the LORD and her husband to expound the WORD more completely to Apollos, yet her husband being present being principally responsible, and accountable in this situation was covered by the WORD's restriction, and in this case also they also did not contend together in the synagogue, they took him to themselves.

Woman should remain silent in the "called out" assemblies, and ask their husbands, fathers, or fathers in the faith with much prayer and humility.

JennRich was right in seeing that this calling for woman is grace, the precious grace of GOD not to take for granted.

LOVE Quinn

J
JennRich Dec 25, 2006

Quinn wrote:
[I notice all over the world today, those with the Spirit of peace, demonstrate patience, and are hopeful to encourage meaningful dialogue,

JennRich writes:
You're right, meaningful dialogue is important. . . but we can LEARN far more by reading/listening to the rich sermons on this site, than by mere conversations among ourselves.

I read that the Scottish people used to meet in each others' homes and raise Biblical questions among each other, but they always did this following a sermon at church. They would discuss what the pastor had preached, then "gather up the fragments" from it afterward.

G
ginnyrose Dec 25, 2006

Quinn wrote:

and I believe the WORD implies the men (her husband at least it seems) were to busy worrying about their own interests that she filled the role, because she was filled with the Spirit and a prophetess.

I do not find in the Word any implication that this was the case: the men were too busy doing something else to fill this need in the life of the nation. Deborah was a woman who had the Holy Spirit, which was a rare incidence in the life of any OT believer. It was given to her by God for edification to use among His people. To imply otherwise is to discount the working of God in the lives of his people.

Quinn, threads of this sort often times rattle females because too many times it is not balanced by the whole teaching of the Word. Too many times Scriptures are taken out of context to support a man's philosophy of a female's role in society. Some want to oppress females and use the Scriptures to do so, others will deny the Scriptures limiting the roles of a overseerer to males, etc. All teaching considering females roles in the life of the church must carefully take into consideration Joel 2:28,29: And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit; I Corinthians 11:1-16; history of the church in regards to females as recorded in Acts, Romans 16; Titus 2.

I have personally witnessed males who take this "silent in the church' to the extreme where a female is not allowed to sing, even in the assembly. There is no [Biblical] historical precedent to support such an interpretation. So what does it mean? Like all scripture, it must be understood in the larger context.

Quinn, in places your post seems to be confusing. It might be helpful if you were to balance it out with your opinion of how a female could effectively operate in the body of believers instead of concentrating on what she cannot do.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

C
crsschk Dec 25, 2006

Well stated Ginnyrose.

Quinn,

Have hesitated to speak to you since you have gotten off to such a poor start here but can no longer hold my peace. I think you have some very wrong notions about what takes place here on this forum.

There is upwards of 3 years worth of conversation, sharing, exhortation and edification and more praying than could be imagined within this sphere of what many consider to be something of a Church, at least in the truest meaning of being the Lords Body. In that sense, 'we' are a church, a fellowship and I am taking great umbrage at your recognized or not contentious attitude. Perhaps it's only a misunderstanding but you are certainly coming across in this fashion. To infer that there is no appreciation for iron sharpening iron or a shying away from difficult issues couldn't be any further from the truth.

Whatever your knowledge or experience it is detrimental due to the spirit in which you convey these things, especially being so new to your surroundings.

For my part, I did not help matters by some of my poor choice of words, nor did I direct some of my thoughts elsewhere to you in particular as I ought to have done. Let me do so now. Forgive me for being vague rather than clear earlier in the now closed [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13898&forum=35#107202]Santa: Did You Know?[/url] thread. Not all of that was directed to you personally, that a part of what was stated generally about 'conspiracy' was directed towards the idea of turning word spellings inside out to reference a sort of satanic conspiracy just as much as anything, but I digress, poor handling on my part to begin with and it ended up only adding more fuel and confusion. For that I apologize. Another generality expressed was mentioned here indirectly to you as well;

This and that which is to follow I need to confess is [i]my[/i] confession first and foremost, that it may be a consideration only secondarily.

Recent days have seen and been wrought with great difficulties, challenges, and an unveiling of things deep down within, proving in fact that, [i]the heart is desperately wicked[/i].

Poor choice of words spoken here in a variety of places, clouded judgment and unspiritual leanings, not a dependence on God but on the 'reserves', whatever they may consist of. A great lack of prayer predominates and is my woeful lack, may it be rectified speedily, may those led pray for the fool.

Rather than attempt to unravel various misunderstandings, my own part in abridging contentions and controversies and only causing them to worsen, let me take advantage to thank those for the rebuke warranted in it's various forms, all things at all times a consideration and a pondering. I repent of all these above, I ask your forgiveness, I seek your prayers.

Honesty Brethren, [i]it[/i] is the prophecy that the Lord desires and I tremble to speak His mind when my own may be so far from His.

In all sincerity and without false humility, nor with any equivocation whatsoever, this is precise and I repeat it wholeheartedly;

-"[i]Behold I am vile! I abhor myself![/i]" (Job 40:4)

May the Lord have mercy.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10733&forum=34]Jonathan Edwards - Undiscerned Spiritual Pride[/url]

Again, this was as much to you as to anyone else here and covers other areas, other postings. No excusing conduct that is unbefitting of a servant of the Lord, explanatory only to the point of necessity.

You are bringing much unneeded grief to this fellowship with an overbearing attitude whatever your intention or motivation. It may escape you, but you are coming across as a know it all and with a Mighty Mouse like "I have come to save the day!", BUT ... We all can do this in some form or fashion and most us of here are very astute to recognize both the plank and the speck and are not afraid to hold each other accountable, just as well, quick to forgive and move on.

[I notice all over the world today, those with the Spirit of peace, demonstrate patience, and are hopeful to encourage meaningful dialogue, while on the other hand I think I've pegged the children of disobedience who seek to draw you out by malignment then by defending yourself further accuse you, like their father. I love dialoging among Christians here though...you know?]

Brother, please, leave the insinuations and assumptions behind, do you not see the pride laced in such a statement? There is such a vast expression here that has been a drawing of others to really get down deep into the truths of this incredible life. We are striving to be transparent (I pray) as we ought and should be as reborn children of the Most High. We do fail as much as we succeed in this very peculiar gathering, this cyber way of communicating. It takes a great deal of patience and slow work and effort at times to really work through matters. Misunderstandings abound, it is just the nature of the structure with expressions being misapplied and torqued out of context, second thoughts, regrets, repentance and correction. On top of that, there is a whole cross section of saints in various states of understanding, from different cultures, upbringing and understanding. Many of us are not all that skilled at the vocabulary sometimes stressed to the point of breaking, attempting to make sense of the tremendous inward change that has taken place, others far better at it.

Many of the sisters in the Lord here are spiritual stalwarts, dwarfing many of us males and humbling as many. They are mothers, sisters, widows and very wise, their counsel invaluable, true lovers of God who need no special mention other than their expressions are evident of this fact. So for you to come in and start straightening everybody out is as unwise as it is unproductive. Lay down the sword and humble yourself brother. I will do the same, may we all do the same.

Phi 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than themselves.

Let us be given the opportunity to do this across the board.

K
kdbutton Dec 26, 2006

A woman speaks out in church: http://www.christianword.org/revival/heroes.html

"Meanwhile in Cardinganshire, in a tiny village named Ney Quay, the Lord had been quietly preparing other instruments for the coming awakening. The Rev. Joseph Jenkins had been deeply concerned about the lack of anointing in his own preaching, which compelled him to desperately seek a deeper life in Christ. Andrew Murray's book, 'With Christ in the School of Prayer' came into his possession and moved him greatly at this time. He became increasingly burdened by the indifference among the Christians around him and the apathy of the young people in his own church. He exhorted them earnestly to obey the Spirit. This was in the early part of the year 1904. A Testimony Lights The Fire The kindling was now ready, but the spark to light the fire would come from an even more unlikely source. In a Sunday morning prayer meeting for young people, Pastor Jenkins asked for testimonies of spiritual experiences. Several tried to speak on other subjects but the pastor stopped them.

At last a young girl named Florrie Evans, who had been gloriously converted just a few days before, stood and with a trembling voice said: "I LOVE JESUS CHRIST - WITH ALL MY HEART"! [b]With these simple words the sparks that God had planted in so many hearts burst into flame and the great Welsh Revival began.[/b]

The fire quickly spread to Blaenanerch, New Castle-Emlyn, Capel Drindod, and Twrgwin. Streams spread abroad like lava from a great volcano - soon multiplied thousands were aflame with the Holy Spirit's testimony of the glorious Son of God."

D
DoulosQuinn Dec 26, 2006

There was a Welsh Revival, that is for sure, my great grand parents were saved during this move.

I even believe that it is quite possible Florrie Evans had an outburst.

But I not being privy to witness, or hearing second hand or by GOD's first hand am able to recieve that she kicked it all off by contradicting GOD's WORD, it not very likely, especially considering how much prayer, fasting, and even sorrow was set in great motion long before the outbreak of the HOLY Spirit. Obviously the fire was real, but a child crying out was the result, not the initiater.

D
DoulosQuinn Dec 26, 2006

Crsschk
I am confused about how “well stated” Ginny Rose was, but true enough we (you and me) did get off on the wrong foot, (In Santa’s Forum) and am deeply impressed by the godliness demonstrated by your gracious effort to reason with me with such humility. I see your wisdom, and can assume you have a significant role in the Body for HIS good pleasure.

Please understand I am still unsure about how to receive all of this admonishment

“I am taking great umbrage at your recognized or not contentious attitude. Perhaps it's only a misunderstanding but you are certainly coming across in this fashion."

“You are bringing much unneeded grief to this fellowship with an overbearing attitude whatever your intention or motivation. It may escape you, but you are coming across as a know it all and with a Mighty Mouse like "I have come to save the day!"

"...leave the insinuations and assumptions behind, do you not see the pride…”

“for you to come in and start straightening everybody out is as unwise as it is unproductive”

I am new to this forum but have discussed relevant issues “matter of factly” without confrontations of insult before many people. I really just want the LORD to be recognized, so I am oblivious to how I am seen, all the more to exhort others to fix their eyes on Jesus, The ONE true shepherd. But am willing to remain a spectator since you have been here so long, and are so well respected. Sorry for troubling everybody. GOD bless you all as you truly Bless HIM in pure worship. I hope your discussions are very edifying, and stir the Body to action.

D
DoulosQuinn Dec 26, 2006

Ginnyrose
“I do not find in the Word any implication that this was the case: the men were too busy doing something else to fill this need in the life of the nation. Deborah was a woman who had the Holy Spirit, which was a rare incidence in the life of any OT believer. It was given to her by God for edification to use among His people.”

It was implied, just like Nabal’s name spoke to Abigail back then and us today, Peoples names have meaning, even inspired truths, look at the Patriarchs, even take the names of the sons of Seth, their names defined and placed in order up to Noah give a salvation message, there are other great examples.

Many people see how GOD equips the called, not call the equipped, yes she received HIS Spirit because the need was there.
WHAT IS obvious to me is GOD doesn’t contradict HIMself, HE said not to teach, (she didn’t), or have authority over men ( I do not read her doing that directly either, even when she goes with them to war), to remain silent in the assembly ( which is not contradicted)

She sings with Barak out in the field, like Miriam sings with the daughters of Israel,

“…threads of this sort often times rattle females because too many times it is not balanced by the whole teaching of the Word. Too many times Scriptures are taken out of context to support a man's philosophy of a female's role in society. Some want to oppress females and use the Scriptures to do so…”

GOD’s loving WORD should not rattle women, even if it is discussed in a thread. What scriptures are “out of context to support a man's philosophy of a female's role in society?” GOD is very clear HE goes all the way from Timothy to Genesis to explain that the “fundamental reason that goes back to The fall…” as my paper explains keeping the context of the message. I believe you been persuaded by your own bias. I believe that carnal men have created much distrust in the sight of many women, but HE commands women on how to witness too, with a quite spirit, not out right exegetical challenges. YOU ARE WALKING ON DANGEROUS GROUND! Why call GOD an oppressor? David Wilkerson in “Do I Believe” in the compilation MP3’s on this site, said The Israelites would not accuse GOD directly, instead they looked to human error, to deny HIS WORD. I believe you are denying the crystal clarity of HIS WORD. Because you have been deceived the same way millions of others have.

Do you think there is no such thing as a man any more? How about Jews, is there such a thing as a Jew any more? Of course there is, but in regards to salvation we all stand level, bared, and naked before HIM to whom we have to do (Hebrews 4:13)

Women are co-heirs of life’s grace (1 Peter 3:7 ), and we are heirs of Christ (Romans 8:17)
But a woman was created for man (1Corithians 11:9) so please don’t pretend like men are running around looking for an excuse to make these call’s by HIS WORD, we are responsible, and accountable whether you deny GOD purposes/intentions or not.

“I have personally witnessed males who take this "silent in the church' to the extreme where a female is not allowed to sing, even in the assembly. There is no [Biblical] historical precedent to support such an interpretation. So what does it mean? Like all scripture, it must be understood in the larger context.”

If the WORD ( great biblical/ HIStorical precedent) says that she sould remain silent, maybe we should lean toward caution, rather then presumption…if we fear the LORD.

”Quinn, in places your post seems to be confusing. It might be helpful if you were to balance it out with your opinion of how a female could effectively operate in the body of believers instead of concentrating on what she cannot do.”

Me making up protocol for women from “my opinion” would be foolish, I refuse that. Wisdom would say to see where the Bible is clear, and does not contradict the rest. The LORD loves us HE said not to fear, HE has good things for us. It comes down to trusting GOD=wisdom, or fearing man=snare. TRUST GOD.

And stop teaching please… “All teaching considering females roles in the life of the church must carefully take into consideration Joel 2:28,29…I Corinthians 11:1-16; history of the church in regards to females as recorded in Acts, Romans 16; Titus 2.” THIS twisting and reordering scripture through a reverse filter, I dare say is casting shadows to draw contradictions as authoritive, and is better is addressed in “Evangelical Feminism” by Paul Felix.

If you really are “spiritual stalwarts, dwarfing many of us males and humbling as many.” I am sure GOD would give you the humility and courage to accept HIS order as grace like Sister Jenn, because there is no superiority, just us, and the only wise GOD, worthy of ALL GLORY.

D
DoulosQuinn Dec 26, 2006

JennRich you were right! Paul Washer's sermon on dating was good, he had the point about 60yrs ago that lewd behavior was unacceptable. He was pretty firm about his convictions too, thank you.

sermonindex Dec 26, 2006

Brother,
I just got done reading both this thread, and the Santa thread that Mike, (who IS an elder in this 21st century version of a cyber church) had to lock, understandbly so, it got bad, and that is easily discernible.

Now I read your first post where you are prophesying in mold of forthtelling, as opposed to foretelling, and I feel led to ask you, (not in rancor or entrapment or any sense of cliquishness...y'know a "clique", which is what you implied this forum is, which I respectfully disagree with you on) I want to ask you: what's your personal testimony?

Brother, i don't mean to pry or be unseemingly intrusive, but I'm curious, how old are you?, when did you come to the Lord?, under what personal circumstances? What is the Kingdom of Heaven to you? How do you view the Good News? the Gospel?

in other words, instead of forthtelling, why don't you just take this opportunity to be a witness, to testify, to be vulnerable, to be transparent, to be real,in child-like humility in front of this assembly.

I feel led by the Spirit to ask as such.
May God bless you is my prayer.
in Jesus' love, neil

D
DoulosQuinn Dec 26, 2006

Crsschk

I am sorry about my response to you, I was reading Josephus about community rule of the Essenes aka "sons of light"
I was heavily convicted about being right with you. I have been wounded by what I thought was my family in Christ, but were more concerned about attracting numbers, as a result I am a little quick to be a little passionate, that is no excuse, But I am sorry my friend, I am sorry.

D
DoulosQuinn Dec 26, 2006

I am 32 yrs old, 6yrs old in Christ.
I was studing Bio-chemistry at a state U, in my 3rd year, I was in a fraternity, I was 1 and half year seperated from a long term (7yrs) relationship, I was drinking a lot, I was not being repectable, I was using speed, I was sad and depressed, things were falling apart all over the place. Then in the middle of it some church dropped the Jesus film off at my door, I watched it a couple of times I was informed that all the bad press Jesus got was probably false...but I didn't get saved because I loved my sin...At a party some Gothic girl was blasting Jesus Christ so I (beer in hand) defended HIM, and thought I did a good job. the next week driving home froma party my and a friend were talking about GOD, his mom was born again, and had given him a Wow CD, he popped it in , I was impressed with it...he gave it to me...I would listen to it when escaping on wilderness hikes...started singing along one day the word penetrated my heart as I considered GOD was always good, that it was me that screwed everything up. A real peace came upon me, the LORD touched me... I was searching for more...sometime later I ran across a great song on the FM, as I made diner a commercial interupted kept going, and going, and...I went to turn it in frustration, I walked to the dial, and heard "Jesus." The man Mike Kessler from CSN Calvary Satelite Network he was talking about David his sin(big one), and how he was a man after GOD's own heart...needless to say an annointed teaching touched my heart, I started to listen regularly and even reading a little, praying...still using,drinking,etc like a slave...then one day everything came to a head, GOD brought me in revealing the very personal nature (to me) of HIS sacrifice, I was born again....lots of changes, battles, suffering... great blessings and victories later, here I am. Right now I am fighting for my spiritual life as it were...I have been deeply hurt by people that I invested much of my life into...the only family I have known since being born again...I don't know how to cope, I am fighting to keep my zeal, but am loosing against depression...I can't even read my Bible...for 5 weeks, first gap more then five days (from reading) since I came in. I just want to run away from everyone that wants to help, especially close friends. Sorry

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